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Quetico Bob
07-06-2009, 04:02 PM
Brought home an old Yamaha EF1400 genset this spring. Belonged to Grandma and has not been used for close to 20yrs. Maybe has 10 hrs on it.

Cleaned the tank and shut off valve. Soaked the carb, cleaned the bowl, float and needle then walked the air to it.

Will not go to operating rpm, like its starving for gas with almost a hiccup. If I choke it somewhat it will smooth out, but still not operating rpm (90-100Volts). Has a new plug. What have I missed?:confused:

Cheers, Bob

Fasttrack
07-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Check for good compression, but I'm betting the carb is still dirty. 20 years is a long time for a carb to be soaking in varnish. Try some heavier-duty carb cleaner or an ultrasonic cleaner. Make sure you've disassembled it completely before attempting to clean.

What does, "then walked the air to it" mean? That is a phrase I've not heard before...

pcarpenter
07-06-2009, 04:28 PM
What you need is a highly restrictive after-muffler to reduce exhaust volume:D Since we have already established that the size of the hole out of which all exhaust must exit really doesn't matter, try drilling with a number 60 drill:D

I agree with Tom. That carb is likely varnished inside some of it's tiny passages. I would disassemble it completely and use one of the dunk-type carb cleaners. They come in what looks like a 1 gallon paint can with a basket inside. Parts go in the basket, basket in the can of nasty stuff that will remove 20 year old gasoline goo.

Paul

Quetico Bob
07-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Walked the air to it.
Give it to it full blast, all you can give to it. Must be Canadian slang from my home town.

Only at the most 10 hours on machine, how could it be compression?

Cheers, Bob

Fasttrack
07-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Well it probably isn't compression, but it's easy to check. :D I'm not entirely sure what your describing, but a lot of times the engine will start to "hunt" where it sounds like it is throttling up and then down in a regular manner. This is the sound most engines make right before running out of fuel or if running lean. This is also the sound they make if they have low compression. I had an OHV lawnmower show up at my garage from a neighbor. It was practically new but the rpm kept hunting. I thought it was the carb from sitting over the winter so I spent about 40 minutes cleaning it very thoroughly. Chucked it back on there and it still hunted. So I pulled the spark plug and checked compression - Turned out one of the nuts on the rocker arms had rattled tight and was keeping the exhaust valve cracked open.

That's a pretty rare case, though. I suppose it is possible that there is something causing low compression in your engine, but much more likely it's a dirty carb!! :)

Evan
07-06-2009, 05:35 PM
how could it be compression?


If it is iron sleeved it could be rust pitted.

It also sounds to me that the carb is still plugged.

Quetico Bob
07-06-2009, 05:42 PM
QUOTE
If it is iron sleeved it could be rust pitted.
QUOTE

Donít want to pull the head and that would be a last resort. Not sure if gaskets are still available for this thing.

You guys are probably right, based on what was sitting in the bottom of the bowl. Any suggestions on a super duty off the self soak?

Cheers, Bob

Bob Ford
07-06-2009, 05:47 PM
Have you tried putting a load on the generator. Some have a auto slowdown until loaded. It does sound like a fuel/ air problem though.

Bob

Willy
07-06-2009, 05:54 PM
Bob Fastrack has it right. The varnish gets pretty hard after 20 years.
The fact that it runs better with the choke on is your first clue that it's starving for fuel, of course just when it is trying to run better it runs out of air too as the rpms climb.
Got to an automotive parts supplier and ask for the stuff you soak the carb in and they will know what you need. After it's done soaking rinse the basket full of parts in HOT water, blow dry.

Fasttrack
07-06-2009, 05:55 PM
QUOTE
If it is iron sleeved it could be rust pitted.
QUOTE

Donít want to pull the head and that would be a last resort. Not sure if gaskets are still available for this thing.

You guys are probably right, based on what was sitting in the bottom of the bowl. Any suggestions on a super duty off the self soak?

Cheers, Bob

I get my gallon can from a NAPA distribution center. I think it is the NAPA brand ...

As far as gaskets go, as a last resort for a head gasket, there is some copper grade RTV gasket maker that works incredibly well. Back in high school I was fiddling with my go-kart engine practically every weekend. I was too cheap to buy replacement head gaskets since I was popping the head off so often and I already had several tubes of this copper grade stuff lying around. It has now been three years since the last time the head was pulled and that RTV still seems to be going strong. This engine even had the compression bumped up quite a bit from stock. The longest it ran was 5 hours, so maybe the extended time on a genset would make a difference, but keep it in mind if you find yourself in a pinch.

Willy
07-06-2009, 05:58 PM
A piece of annealed copper sheet the same thickness as the stock head gasket works well too!

pcarpenter
07-06-2009, 06:05 PM
Try this. It's what I have used. As mentioned, parts get water washed after soaking for a while. No water back in the solvent though....basket must be fully dry before it goes back in. They stuff may be water rinsable, but it's not water based.

http://www.gunk.com/CAT_CC3K.asp

Paul

Quetico Bob
07-06-2009, 06:10 PM
:) Right on folks, next trip to Thunder Bay will pick up the tear the hide off anything dope and give it a try. Had a 250w halogen plugged into it while I was testing. Funny thing, no voltage on the first few atemps. But as soon as I pugged the light in, I guess it excited something. Thanks for the tip on the copper.

Cheers, Bob

Evan
07-07-2009, 02:42 AM
Stick it in the dishwasher on the pots and pans cycle with plenty of dishwasher soap.

pcarpenter
07-07-2009, 11:10 AM
Ahhh...the dishwasher thread:D I have seen potmetal washed in the diswasher where the soap is mildly caustic and it does create a bit of corrosion. Aluminum pays a price for dishwasher duty as well.

I would also wonder if it would get in the tiny pin-size passages long enough to soak things loose which is likely the source of the problem.

Paul

airsmith282
07-07-2009, 03:48 PM
weak compression wont cause it not to idle properly, low compression will make it a bitch to start and under a heavely load will cause it to stall out if its to low.. but cloged jets most certianly will cause bad idle issues., i use a twise tie and remove the plastic form it or paper then i use the tie to clean out all the jets then air clow it out, another problem would be the govener spring it streched or warne from age and you can shorten them just a tiny bit ata a time till it runs smooth but do the jet cleaning thing first, if you got idea contr screws this can also affect it so turn them in all the way the low idle should be set at 1 and 1/2, there is sometimes also a H screw as well its usualy set to 1 , same idea as a weed wacker on some carbs i have come accross ,, if you have not removed thoes screws then the jets in there are likey the cause but thoes i just blow out with air .. there are usualy also hoels in the carb near the choke as well as the throttle area as well make sure to do the twist tie thing to them as well and then air blow them out after.. check your gasket for the carb where is ataches as well to the motor if its bad then your sucking air,,..if you have a primer bulb on the carb not likely but if you do then it can cause bad ideling as well but this seems not to be an issue as you mentioned applying the choke smooths is out so its a jet or jet screw setting issue...

any how hope this helps,, also check the exaust make sure its got no leakes as well, to low of back pressure can also cause funny stuff to happen to...

Quetico Bob
07-07-2009, 03:53 PM
QUOTE
Ahhh...the dishwasher thread:D I have seen potmetal washed in the diswasher where the soap is mildly caustic
QUOTE

Donít try the super duty unobtainium industrial stuff.:D

Cheers, Bob

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn142/Queticobob/Dishwasher.jpg

Quetico Bob
07-07-2009, 04:21 PM
QUOTE
weak compression wont cause it not to idle properly, low compression will make it a bitch to start and under a heavely load will cause it to stall out if its to low.. but cloged jets most certianly will cause bad idle issues., i use a twise tie and remove the plastic form it or paper then i use the tie to clean out all the jets then air clow it out,
QUOTE

Starts first pull every time. Some of the passages seem blind with the only outlet in the venture, not sure how the heck I could get a wire in them. Only one fuel adjustment screw on carb flange near were it meets head, is this high or low?. No bulb, gravity from tank. Gasket is good, came off no problem, probably due to lack of hours.

Going to Thunder Bay towards end of week and will pick up some good solvent, any other suggestions before I go would be great, donít get down there often.

Thanks Airsmith.

Cheers, Bob

Fasttrack
07-07-2009, 04:49 PM
weak compression wont cause it not to idle properly, low compression will make it a bitch to start and under a heavely load will cause it to stall out if its to low..


Not so. Poor compression can cause an engine to hunt if the engine is a set rpm type - i.e. modern lawnmower engines where the throttle is regulated by the govenor alone and is designed to immediately come up to the operating speed. Or the gensets I've seen. 'Course I've only seen two gensets so I'm hardly an expert :D But I agree that it is most likely carb problems!

Bob I hope that wasn't your carb there ... ! :eek: As far as the adjustment screw goes, most small engines I've seen only have one screw to adjust idle mixture, if they have any screws. Older engines are more likely to have a high/low idle and main jet (rare) or just an idle and main jet (more common). I don't know anything specific about your engine.

pcarpenter
07-07-2009, 04:58 PM
Yeah....stay away from running wires into carb passages. The carb metal is soft and this is usually considered a no-no because of that. It's easy to wallow them open. When they start out tiny, it doesn't take much enlargement to render something damaged.

That was my point about the dishwasher too. Most carb bodies I am familiar with are a zinc alloy and most common diswasher detergents are mildly caustic (alkaline). Its the reason that aluminum pans or lids are not supposed to be machine washed....the detergent can pit them.

Looks like that carb body you have there was some sort of low-temp alloy :D

Paul

Quetico Bob
07-07-2009, 05:10 PM
Wish I knew something specific about the engine, can buy the manual off flee bay or from Yamaha, but Iím not there yet.

No, not me carb in the dishwasher, but afraid if I stuck it in thereÖwho knows. Calgonite is some pretty mean stuff. Crap it will clean things that an hour of my scrubbing canít.

Thanks again for the info guys.

Cheers, Bob

J. Randall
07-07-2009, 11:47 PM
Bob, as other have said, it is not recommended to run wire into the metering holes. I have as last resort taken one fine strand from a bicycle brake cable and not done any damage. If you don't want to wait and happen to have some acetone handy it is a very good solvent for varnished gasoline.
James

airsmith282
07-08-2009, 09:18 PM
i have yet to ever have a problem using twist tire wire to clean out jets, you maybe able to do it with 20 different chemicals and the cost is nuts trying to gini pig all this junk,, if things are that far gone then the carb is probley shot you can only rebuild carbs so many times then there done and a new carb is needed but by the sounds of things this doesnt seem to be the case, also just cause you soak the thing dont mean its going to get all the crap out either,, to each his own do as you wish..

i rebuild carbs in my sleep now its been pretty busy the last 2 months,,
its not like your driving the wire threw all the pasages your breaking up a tiny area and then air blowing it clean out, i never hear of any one enlarging passages before thats a new one to me..

i had shops tell me about the twist tie thing many times when i first started working on small engines and if they do it and its safe then i cant see a problem with it..

Willy
07-08-2009, 11:55 PM
Airsmith, I suppose that if one used a little technique and care you could conceivably do a fair job at dislodging a piece of foreign matter from a carburetor circuit without resorting to trashing an orifice in the process. But why take the chance?

In the 60's and 70's I used to rebuild a lot of carburetors, mostly 4 bbl Quadrajets, Holleys, and Carters, and I still do a few motorcycle carbs. The one thing I learned a long time ago was that if you are going to eliminate as many variables as possible during a proper carb rebuild you have to start with a spotlessly clean platform. A proper carb clean and soak will render a carburetor as clean inside and out as the day it left the factory. Fresh carb cleaner has never let me down.

While I don't mean to discredit the "twiddling a piece of wire in the carb" procedure. I personally would only resort to the technique in the field as a last resort when other techniques are not an option.

bborr01
07-09-2009, 12:55 AM
Hi Bob,
I didn't respond yesterday because I thought you had the problem solved. I just want to let you know about a product that I recently came across that is great at cleaning out varnish from carbs that have sat for years. I don't know if this is a regional product or not but SEA FOAM has saved me from many carb teardowns on equipment. It is priced at about 6 or 7 US$ a can and treats about 20 gallons of gas. I generally run a fairly small amount of gas/seafoam mix to clean out a carb. I think this product is likely a carb cleaner as mentioned in several other posts but this is formulated (marketed?) to do its stuff without having to tear the carb apart.
Good Luck,
Brian

Quetico Bob
07-09-2009, 07:47 AM
QUOTE
I didn't respond yesterday because I thought you had the problem solved. I just want to let you know about a product that I recently came across that is great at cleaning out varnish from carbs that have sat for years. I don't know if this is a regional product or not but SEA FOAM has saved me from many carb teardowns on equipment. It is priced at about 6 or 7 US$ a can and treats about 20 gallons of gas. I generally run a fairly small amount of gas/seafoam mix to clean out a carb. I think this product is likely a carb cleaner as mentioned in several other posts but this is formulated (marketed?) to do its stuff without having to tear the carb apart.
QUOTE

Brian,
Funny you should mention that. First thing I added after cleaning the tank. But in this case it would need to sputter along for quite some time before helping I think. $9CDN here.

I would endorse the stuff, freed up a stuck oil ring on #8 in my old chev just a while back.

Off to the city today to pick up some stuff including fine wire if needed.

Thanks Folks.

Cheers, Bob