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View Full Version : 200 MPG Carb discovered......It's from China



Evan
07-11-2009, 10:50 PM
Well, it might not do 200 mpg but I bet it is close. I just bought a pair of moped kits. One is for my wife's bike (which cost me $10 at a yard sale :rolleyes: ) and the other is for my hybrid trike project. These kits are amazingly cheap at $145 US and are very well made. They include every single part needed including twist grip throttle and even a couple of maintenance tools such as a sprocket wrench and a sprocket puller for the engine. The engine is a 2 stroke 64.5 cc and is rated at about 1.6 hp. That seems to be a fair rating as it will pull my 200 lb arse up a 13% grade easily.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/moped1.jpg

The one part of the kit that posed a problem of sorts is the chain. It is a super heavy duty #50 and would be much more suited to a 250cc motorcycle. It is also too loose in the links and every link needs to be punched together to reduce the play. Instead I spent another $7 on a #50 bicycle chain which is much more appropriate. I had to machine the thickness of the drive sprocket on the motor and the included tools worked perfectly for removing the sprocket.

This was another test of the cermet insert and it came through without damage. It didn't mind the interrupted cut at all and had no trouble with the hardened sprocket.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/moped2.jpg

The engine is started by popping the clutch after pedaling up to a few mph and takes over immediately. It run very quietly and is pretty smooth for a single cylinder engine. It has a redline of about 6000 rpm but if you take it up there it begins to vibrate like a Norton Atlas with a twisted crank pin. :eek:

Up to around 4000 to 5000 rpm it's fine and it lugs way down low really well which surprised me.

This is really a test bed for my trike project and so far it is looking really good.

Pherdie
07-11-2009, 11:19 PM
Inspiring, Evan.

You gave me the incentive to go check on moped/scooter prices. Ouch!! :eek:

Now your cost factor makes the engine conversion even more inspiring. Just wish the braking was better, but that shouldn't deter you from coming up with a solution!! ;)

Fred

Evan
07-11-2009, 11:21 PM
All it needs is a front disc brake. They work 10 times better than the caliper brakes.

rockrat
07-11-2009, 11:27 PM
Round here that would be considered a moped and the rider would be required to add a license plate. Are the rules similar up there (cross the border) or are you far enough out that they are sensible enough to understand that there are bigger things to worry about?

rock~

Evan
07-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Mopeds don't require any license here. The rules are the same as any unpowered bicycle. It is supposed to be limited to no more than 20 mph and 50cc but I don't know anybody that can actually tell that this one is 64.5cc instead of 50cc. It will do about 25 mph but I have it geared down for the hills with a bigger 48t sprocket. If you put a 40t sprocket on it I understand it will do more like 35 mph but you will have to pedal first before letting out the clutch, a good idea anyway to save wear.

BTW, I do have a plate for it: :D

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics4/protestplate.jpg

Pherdie
07-11-2009, 11:42 PM
All it needs is a front disc brake. They work 10 times better than the caliper brakes.

Agreed, just hope the front forks don't fold under the frame.

As a related note, I truly believe we will soon see the creation of a 'carbon footprint' tax/assessment on everything (Flamers note: I am not saying this is right or wrong). It will be a graduated tax based on a 'calculated" carbon expenditure for production and/or usage, to be used for finding/implementing more environmentally conscious projects (and mostly lining the some peoples pockets). Couple that with rising energy costs and your 'moped' will be looking pretty sweet.

Fast forward 20 years and imagine all the 80+ year old baby boomers on mopeds (Help, I've fallen and i can't get up) and the impact on national health care!

Good luck with your project and please keep us posted.

Fred

Willy
07-11-2009, 11:46 PM
I've had one for over year now Evan, a nice diversion from the Harley! Actually 30 mph on this thing is actually more exiting than 120 on the hawg.
A lot of idiocyncracies...it ain't no Honda, but nothing one can't tune into.
Yup, illegal as the day is long, but if you fly under the radar out in the boonies and pedal around town it doesn't seem to attract the heat.
Getting pretty good at ghost peddling when I spot the man.
Jeez here I am pushin 60 doing stuff like I was twelve or something.:D
It doesn't hurt that I live in a rural area...don't think I would last long in a major urban center before I got busted...lots of fun though.


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/IM002736.jpg

rockrat
07-11-2009, 11:46 PM
BTW, I do have a plate for it: :D

Nice!

Keep us posted.
rock~

Evan
07-11-2009, 11:48 PM
Help, I've fallen and i can't get up

That is why I am building a trike as well as the ability to carry more power. Around town I will use only electric although I may add a small sound system with a digital recording of a turbine spooling up... :D

Pherdie
07-11-2009, 11:52 PM
I may add a small sound system with a digital recording of a turbine spooling up..

Remember, loud turbines save lives! :D

Ken_Shea
07-12-2009, 12:01 AM
I'd bet that as long as they don't see tires burning and fish tailing you'd be safe.

Love that plate Evan,
Hard pressed to think of anything around here that is not taxed, however, the finger says it all :D

Jim Shaper
07-12-2009, 12:39 AM
You just need a little camouflage. Remove the tank and replace it with an aluminum kerosene bottle in a regular water bottle holder on the front frame rail (the one my dad has looks like a sports bottle), then get one of those "bag" things for in the V of the frame to cover the sides of the engine. It'd take a pretty keen copper to notice the muffler from a distance. Unless your cops roll with the windows down up there. Ours always have the windows up and the air on.

barts
07-12-2009, 12:46 AM
Way back when during the first oil crisis (I was 14 I think) I put a 2 hp Briggs on bike w/ a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub... went 42 mph in high and would wheelie in first gear. That thing was a blast - small round lawn mower tank hose clamped to the top tube, twist grip throttle and it would just go and go.

The small Honda motors would be a good choice here; something like:

http://www.honda.ca/enginesEng/models/GXH/GX50/default.htm

or even
http://www.honda.ca/enginesEng/models/GXH/GX22/default.htm
http://www.honda.ca/enginesEng/models/GXH/GX31/default.htm

- Bart

Evan
07-12-2009, 01:42 AM
I would love a small 4 stroke but they are too expensive to buy new right now. Also, it's very hard to beat the power to weight ratio of a two stroke. This one includes a dry plate clutch and about 8 to 1 helical reduction gearing on roller bearings to the output sprocket.

dp
07-12-2009, 04:00 AM
All it needs is a front disc brake. They work 10 times better than the caliper brakes.

They've been known to bend the light weight forks on a bike and heavy spokes are a good idea, too, to keep the wheel from potato chipping. There's been a number of attempts over the years to transfer the hub braking energy to the frame but it's tricky - especially if you have any kind of live suspension on the forks. Anti-dive linkage keeps the forks from bottoming under high brake forces.

The springer forks on my Schwinn beach cruiser are a good example of the wrong way to do it. I have drum brakes from Sturmey-Archer on that bike. The problem of braking (and breaking) may be why Harley is dropping the springer fork from production.

barts
07-12-2009, 04:21 AM
If you need heavy wheels, consider some from Worksmans Cycles; I've had excellent luck with them on my Burning Man mutant vehicle:

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss85/KernelSander/DSC_1035.jpg

Evan
07-12-2009, 05:05 AM
On the trike the front won't be doing much more than steering. Most of the weight is carried by the rear wheels. For those I am using a pair of 20 inch 36 spoke wheels from a pretty high quality child's mountain bike. Because we have a super quality bike shop here there are a lot of used high quality bikes around and I have permission from the bike shop to dumpster dive their scrap pile. The trike rear end will have both disc braking and dynamic braking of two kinds. It will use regenerative braking to recharge the batteries and if they are full it goes to eddy current braking. Eddy current braking is absolutely reliable which is why it is used on trains, planes and many other machines.

Since we have some long and steep hills here I must have brakes I can depend on.

[edit] I might even add a drag chute to go with the turbine noise generator. :D I have a surplus radiosonde chute around here somewhere...

Steelmaster
07-12-2009, 08:31 AM
When I was a kid in Holland my old man had an add-on moped engine, Berini if remember right. It was 49cc, hinged from the headstem of the bike on to the top of the front wheel. The front wheel was driven by a roller within the little engine assembly and you could either have it lifted up off the wheel and pedal along or drop it on to the front wheel and go along quite nicely.

Found a link (http://cyclemaster.wordpress.com/page-4-1952-berini-m19-cycle-star-cyclestar/), see about halfway down the page for the front wheel version.

Dawai
07-12-2009, 09:49 AM
I may add a small sound system with a digital recording of a turbine spooling up..

I was thinking along the lines of a flamethrower exhaust like on a old streetrod..

BURRPPP out comes a 12 foot flame from the exhaust.. Normally the traffic that passes you is the normal traffic in the area.. once or twice and they give you a wide berth.

Evan
07-12-2009, 10:11 AM
I was kinda thinking about some rear wheel covers for the bicycle wheels that look a bit like this..:D

http://ixian.ca/pics6/spikes.jpg

saltmine
07-12-2009, 12:38 PM
Do they keep turning when you stop, like the lowriders' do?

Dawai
07-12-2009, 01:05 PM
I've often wondered why the "spoked vanes on wheels" were not ducted into the intake system on high speed cars.. faster you go, relieves air pressure and disturbance across wheels and pumps fresh air into the engine..

Spinning while you stop? not near as "funny" as the ones that do not turn at all.. a optical illusion..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD3wl0rAY7Y

My head has been hurting for three days, this did not help..

gvasale
07-12-2009, 01:07 PM
from china have been on ebay in the BIN arena for around $135 USD for over a year. I bought one. 6 hp, ohv. Not quite as compact.

Dawai
07-12-2009, 01:11 PM
Someone with some electronic knowledge could do a fuel injection system for this and go way over 200mpg..

Problems? coated oxygen sensor.. can't use a heated sensor, not enough power available to waste.. so.. one wire sensor..

Funny, putting oil bath air cleaner on a sensor equipped car kills it.. I think two stroke oil would be a quicker death.

THE variable venturi carburetors work great, near as good as a injection system. They just don't modify on the fly like a fuzzy computered ecu..

TexasKnifeMaker
07-12-2009, 09:21 PM
BTW, I do have a plate for it: :D

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics4/protestplate.jpg

Where did you get the plate?!?!?!?! I want one with Texas insignias.

(however, it might backfire - THEY could find a way to TAX THAT)

:D

J.

Evan
07-12-2009, 09:27 PM
I made it. Give me a few minutes. :D

Evan
07-12-2009, 09:56 PM
Here you are. :D

http://ixian.ca/pics6/ttaxt.jpg

Larger version (http://ixian.ca/pics6/ttax.jpg)

Lew Hartswick
07-12-2009, 10:03 PM
Here you are. :D

http://ixian.ca/pics6/ttaxt.jpg

Larger version (http://ixian.ca/pics6/ttax.jpg)
I love it. First thing you know everyone will be wanting one. :-)
...lew...

rdfeil
07-13-2009, 12:24 AM
Hi Evan,

Lew made me do this.......

How about one for Washington State? I'm sure DP would like it also :D .

Robin

dp
07-13-2009, 12:33 AM
Hi Evan,

Lew made me do this.......

How about one for Washington State? I'm sure DP would like it also :D .

Robin

It's the right color :)

rdfeil
07-13-2009, 12:46 AM
Hi Dennis,

I thought so also, and the way this state taxes things, very appropriate.

R

Evan
07-13-2009, 02:44 AM
I'll have a look at the WA plate and see. I was in the shop downstairs as it's the only cool place in the house. I never use the computer in the shop for anything except running the CNC mill. If I started checking the forum in the shop I would never get anything done.

lazlo
07-13-2009, 10:58 AM
Here you are. :D

http://ixian.ca/pics6/ttaxt.jpg

Fantastic! I'm going to print one out on the large format printer at work today :)

The cover of this week's Economist has a hilarious, but very apropos cartoon about Texas and California:

http://www.economist.com/images/covers/currentcoverus_large.jpg

jcc3inc
07-13-2009, 11:16 AM
Good morning!

Your motorized bike reminds me of the late 40's. One of the kids in town whose dad owned a hardware store got himself a Whizzer! It was quite well thought out. Most of us couldn't afford anything like that so we just had to pedal.

Regards,
Jack C.

aboard_epsilon
07-13-2009, 11:36 AM
i was looking at one at the weekend ..talking to an owner of one ..i just happened to meet.

its was a 4 stroke model ..

the kit was imported from the USA ..and he had to pay 40 duty on it .

200 altogether

he says the engine is a Chinese cement mixer engine.

he also added mag alloy wheels to the bike ..which was a mountain bike

he says its does 200mpg and top speed is 31mph (uk gallons)

so that's a 4 stroke ..i cant see the 2 stroke doing 200 mpg

BTW ..his engine looked all aluminium ..the exhaust possibly stainless.

all the best.markj

Evan
07-13-2009, 11:43 AM
OK, here is one for Washington. I might entertain a couple of more requests but if the plate has a difficult to patch background I may turn it down. Plain backgrounds are easy.


http://ixian.ca/pics6/waplatet.jpg

Hi Res (http://ixian.ca/pics6/waplate.jpg)

TexasKnifeMaker
07-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Muchas gracias!!

J.

lazlo
07-13-2009, 12:41 PM
OK, here is one for Washington.

By the way, having lived in Olympia, Washington for three years before moving to Austin, I find it amusing that either Washingtonians or Texans would complain about taxes, since they're two of the seven states that don't have state income tax. :p

Austin more than makes up for that with local (county) property taxes (I would imagine that Dallas and Houston are the same way), but the cost of living in Washington is about as cheap as it gets...

barts
07-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Austin more than makes up for that with local (county) property taxes (I would imagine that Dallas and Houston are the same way), but the cost of living in Washington is about as cheap as it gets...

They still complain though :) - and often loudly. It's part of the
"I'm not getting all I so richly deserve." syndrome.

- Bart

Evan
07-13-2009, 04:24 PM
BTW, I checked out the rims I am using for the rear wheels on the trike. They are double wall 6061 T-6 made in Switzerland. :D

rdfeil
07-14-2009, 12:56 AM
Thanks Evan, I to will be printing it on a 3' X 4' plotter and hanging it on the office wall. And for those complaining about my complaining .....

If I were not complaining I would have to be working and I HATE working :D

Robin

Ken_Shea
07-14-2009, 09:35 AM
BTW, I checked out the rims I am using for the rear wheels on the trike. They are double wall 6061 T-6 made in Switzerland. :D

That puts to rest a concern I was thinking about, probably already has HD spokes as well then.

doc-zeus
07-15-2009, 09:29 AM
WOW! You've got my interest! What are these kits called? I'd like to go shopping!

Willy
07-15-2009, 10:12 AM
Just do an internet search for "bicycle engine kits".
There are a variety of style and prices out there. Also a large number of vendors on flea-bay.

If you are into a bit of insight and operational as well building idiosyncrasies have a look at these two sites. A large amount of good info between these two.

http://motorbicycling.com/

http://www.motoredbikes.com/index.php