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lotus23bsr
07-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Rather than maybe hi-jack the thread by Knifemaker...
What are your opinions of this lathe from Grizzly?

http://grizzlyindustrial.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602

Do you guys think this is substantially better than the 9 X 20 or not really much different.
Do you know if I can do (and will benefit from) the same mods and tweaks to the G0602 that a lot of folks have done to their 9 X 20 lathes?
I haven't checked yet today but as of last week HF did not have any of their 9 X 20 in the warehouse and did not know when the next shipment would be in, maybe 2 to 3 months they said.

I'm thinking that I will get the G0602 with the free shipping and the included 4 jaw chuck.
I just want to work on small air powered engine models for a while, mostly aluminum and brass w/ some steel. Graduating to maybe some IC or live steam eventually.

Thanks much,
Gerry

Falcon67
07-13-2009, 10:45 AM
HF is getting hard to buy big stuff from - they are starting to not stock any of the big tools and that technically kills off use of the famed 20% coupon. Although a friendly store manager can still make it happen. I would consider the 10x22 as a 9x20 with a hair more swing and better paint. It also has better accessories than you will get with the HF 9x20. The compound looks the same and will probably want the same tweaks we-un's do the the 9x20. 4 bolt clamp, better tool post, etc. I like my HF 9x20 and adding the AXA100 tool post and a 4 bolt clamp made it much, much better. The chuck runs true out of the box. The most frustrating thing that I haven't had time to fix is the !@#$#@ backlash adjustment on the compound dials. It's bound up or slop, no real in-between. The compound has some slide issues. I made some brass jibs for mine and that helped some, but the cross slide still binds up in spots. The 11x26 is the same IMO, but at almost 600 lbs might be the best of the three because of mass - but will still want the tweaks. Griz stuff might have better gibs and compound operation. None of the three small ones have a tumbler reverse and you'll want that. That is my next upgrade project for mine.

lotus23bsr
07-13-2009, 12:02 PM
Thanks Chris.
Gerry

Falcon67
07-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Looks like all the smaller lathes have free shipping right now - good deal on that.

Willy
07-13-2009, 02:18 PM
Gerry I have a 10x22 lathe very similar to the one you are looking at. Actually it is the same lathe but with a different name on it instead of Grizzly.
I have had the machine for over six years now and find it quite capable of excellent work and have been very pleased with it overall. Having used 9x20's I must say it is literally twice the machine.

Having said that I must add it is far from perfect. It does not have a slow enough spindle speed as it comes. Fixed that with a 3ph motor and a VFD...I don't know why all lathes aren't equipped this way, big improvement in usability. No power cross feed. Not a big deal for me, have always had excellent finish doing it manually. Not a factor for me but you may not like the fact it's not available. Also you have to change gears for threading. Again, although I enjoy threading, especially since adding the VFD, I don't do it everyday so it doesn't bother me when I have to set the machine up for cutting threads. I wish it would have a separate feed screw instead of relying on the same leadsrew to feed and thread, but in all honesty in the six years of steady use it hasn't become an issue yet, I just make sure that the half nuts are adjusted properly and I keep the lead screw as clean as I can without being anal about. Like the 9x20 lathes the compound area needs help in the form of a solid 4-bolt clamp, but it's a good starter project that will pay huge dividends in the form of tool post stability.
Overall I have been very happy with it, the mass of the machine compared to the 9x20 class of machines is significant, as is the fact that it has a 1" spindle bore, MT4 headstock taper and MT3 tailstock taper and a pretty fair selection of threading options.

Perfect machine? Far from it, but then I'm sure if I spend about $20-25,000 on a used Hardinge HLV of about the same size I could find shortcomings in it as well. But I'll never know will I.:D

Like everyone says...spend as much if not more than you can afford, you'll always grow into a bigger machine...oh, and don't forget to set a little aside for tooling.

lotus23bsr
07-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Thanks Willy.
Gerry

TexasKnifeMaker
07-13-2009, 05:55 PM
Thanks for not hi-jacking my thread. And, thanks for asking about this model. At a $125 more than the 9x19 G4000, does appear to be a lot more machine. I will be following this thread with interest.
Jacque

lotus23bsr
07-14-2009, 07:06 AM
Thanks for not hi-jacking my thread. And, thanks for asking about this model. At a $125 more than the 9x19 G4000, does appear to be a lot more machine. I will be following this thread with interest.
Jacque

You're welcome Jacque.
I have been looking at this lathe and the HF 9X20 since before last Christmas.
I have the money now but HF doesn't have the lathe... so I guess my mind is made up, I'm going to order the G0602 from Griz today. Won't have as much left over for tooling right away, I can still get the QCP from Little Machine Shop but that's about it for awhile. I can still keep myself busy with it, installation, clean up and some of the recommended mods.
If you havn't already checked it out you should join the Yahoo group "9X20 lathe" Tons of good info and reading in their files section.
Gerry

OldRedFord
07-14-2009, 08:56 AM
I have no experience with the lathe, nor do I own a lathe, but am looking to buy. I will say that so far, the more mass a lathe has, the better off you will be.

Falcon67
07-14-2009, 11:23 AM
You're welcome Jacque.
I have been looking at this lathe and the HF 9X20 since before last Christmas.
I have the money now but HF doesn't have the lathe... so I guess my mind is made up, I'm going to order the G0602 from Griz today. Won't have as much left over for tooling right away, I can still get the QCP from Little Machine Shop but that's about it for awhile. I can still keep myself busy with it, installation, clean up and some of the recommended mods.
If you havn't already checked it out you should join the Yahoo group "9X20 lathe" Tons of good info and reading in their files section.
Gerry

Not to take food from LMS, but if you watch Enco you can get a Phase II QCT for around $99 - sometimes with free shipping when they run the $50 free ship promotion. They have gone up $10 - the Series 100 like I have is right now on sale for $98.95. With Enco's current promotion, buy a couple of tooling blanks and you'll get the free shipping. Enco #505-2253 piston type. You'll have to make an adapter to use it on the 9x20 but it's not a hard thing. I buy most stuff from LMS - tool blanks, etc. Good stuff, easy to buy from and quick ship. Seem like nice folks. Dollar is a dollar though. :)

lotus23bsr
07-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Thanks for the heads up on the QCTP Chris.
I was about ready to go to LMS and order the AXA (series 100) for $155.00 plus shipping.
I'll check out Enco and save a few dollars.
Thanks again,
Gerry

Falcon67
07-14-2009, 03:28 PM
That coupon post might get you another 10% off. Such a deal!

Bill McLeod
07-14-2009, 04:48 PM
I also have a 602 and I think it is a good machine as already stated a slower speed would help but a hand crank does for me when threading to a shoulder.
It takes QCTP post with no modifacations. I did a bit of grinding on the steady rest to get the carriage to go a closer (no big deal). It also takes 6" chuck with no problems. It does an amazing amount of work for a small lathe

lotus23bsr
07-14-2009, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the input Bill.

@ Chris, I'm on my way to Enco right now :D

wierdscience
07-14-2009, 09:00 PM
It's both bigger and heavier than the 9x20 and the topslide clamp appears to be a better design than the 9x20.

Also the quick change gearbox design is better.

Paul Alciatore
07-14-2009, 09:40 PM
I don't know the machine, but I do think Grizzly is a cut or two above the other importers and several above HF as far as the quality of their machines is concerned.

The only thing I see lacking in the specs is tumbler reverse. This can be a very desirable feature when threading and was one of the big reasons why I bought a used SB9 instead of an import.

Willy
07-15-2009, 01:20 AM
While threading up to a shoulder will always be easier with a tumbler reverse were one can thread away from the shoulder.
However with a variable speed drive threading up to a shoulder isn't the nail biting episode that it used to be, even at 8 tpi.

Here is a boat propeller shaft that I did a while ago.
It is made out of 316 ss, .875 X 74" with a 1 in 16 taper, and 5/8 X 11 tpi.
While 316 can be a bit of a b*tch at times when it comes to machinability it wasn't a problem for my 10 X 22.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/P5220031.jpg


The down side of course is the VFD is an added cost and without the tumbler reverse.... no left hand threads.
Like I said, far from perfect, but then one shouldn't expect perfection for such a modest investment.

lotus23bsr
07-15-2009, 08:35 AM
@ Weirdscience, thanks for the input
@ Paul, I am thinking the same in ref. to Grizzly being a good vendor. I have an RF 30/31 clone that needed a new spring for the quill return and customer support was excellent . The guy I talked to on the phone knew that it wasn't a Grizzly machine but I felt he treated me as if I just bought the machine from them!
@ Willy, that's a nice piece you turned there. Stainless looks so good when it's machined. I can only hope that I get good enough to turn something like that someday. I'm interested in converting my lathe to VFD someday too.

Falcon67
07-15-2009, 11:40 AM
My take on the VFD + 3 Phase is that just about any of the "affordable" machines we look at will want the conversion. So when I look at a smaller machine I just figure that within the 12 month after purchase there will be a 95% chance of a motor and control acquisition. For example - I keep looking at mills and you have to get to the Griz G9901 9 x 42 before you get a really good range of speeds. Too big for my shop really, so I just toss $500 extra pad for upgrades into cyphering prices on lesser equipment. Shopping for motor & control deals can cut a bunch off that fudge factor.

For threading - which I have yet to try - I'm sourcing an 8" spoked wheel from Griz and will make an expanding arbor that fits in the spindle on the lathe. I can use the exercise ;) and it would probably be helpful to learn the process in slo-mo before running at speed. "First comes good, then comes fast" Hannie Caulder.

Tooling is tooling - you'll buy that anyway. :)

lotus23bsr
07-24-2009, 10:41 AM
I received the G0602 from Griz last Friday. Got it home and finished un-packing it, arrived in pretty good shape. One end of the splash guard had come undone and the other end was distorted as a result. I was able to bend it back into shape.
Spent the last few days mounting it on my bench and dismantled it to clean and re-lube as well as adjust all the gib screws, etc.
I need to machine a new "T-nut" for the QTCP to fit in the Compound Rest.
In addition it looks like on this lathe they don't have T-slots in the Cross Slide anymore, just two tapped holes for the Swivel Base Clamping Ring. I'm gonna have to think about how I can go about converting to a 4 bolt clamping ring, either design a clamping ring that will use the two existing holes and add two more or machine two T-slots into the cross slide like the older models have. Even the photos in the manual show a Cross slide with T-Slots in it.
I get off work today at noon so I can head home and make the T-Nut for the QTCP and on my way home stop at the local Metal Supply retail store and get material to make the turned pcs. for aligning the tail stock to the head stock. Do the break in procedure as well.
Supposed to rain here this afternoon and tomorrow and the honey-do list is all outside stuff :-) looks like I get to work in the shop HeHe.
Gerry
PS
my digital camera is broke, gonna get a new one soon, I'll take some pictures

loose nut
07-24-2009, 11:42 AM
You haven't said what your needs are but if you have the room and can swing the extra price one of the 12 x 36" lathes would be a better deal, much more metal in it, more solid, vibration resistant than the 9 or 10 hobby lathes plus the extra capacity for future needs.

I upgraded from a 9 x 20 to a 13" lathe and there is no comparison in the ability to do work, faster machining, fewer chatter problems etc.

Lathes are like penis's, bigger is better up to a point, you don't build clocks on a 20" lathe.

lotus23bsr
07-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Thanks for the input Loose Nut.
I mentioned in my OP what I want to do... and as I mentioned in the previous post to yours I already bought the 10X22 :)

I didn't think at this time I could afford much bigger than the 10 X 22 plus I don't have the room or the ways and means to move a machine as big as the one you're suggesting. Maybe someday? Depends on how much this hobby holds me for ransom :)

And the way I understand it, you can never have a penis that is too big :D

Thanks again for your input,
Gerry

loose nut
07-24-2009, 01:24 PM
Oh, it will hold you for ransom, it's almost a illness, pretty soon you will be getting the QCTH and a few holders then some more and more even when you really don't need them, It's an addiction, pretty soon there will be a new digital mic. that you see in a catalog then a new carbide end mill holder, run away while you still can. As for the penis, I wish I had that problem.