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View Full Version : keller diefiler run without oil, now it makes bad noises



mikem
07-17-2009, 11:51 PM
I just bought a keller die filer at a College surplus auction. When it ran, it made a clunking sound, so I looked inside and found that there was no oil in it. Further disassembly showed that the pinion on the crank assy is galled and the yoke bearing block (kinda like a connecting rod) is worn to a loose fit. Can't call Keller til Monday so I thought that I might ask some of you who have rebuilt one of these how it went.

How did you fix the leaks? Is the pinion available without the crankshaft or must I buy the whole thing? The upper bearings are worn from pushing laterally too hard and long on the file without oil.

The search of previous posts helped me quite a bit. What little oil was left in the bottom of the crankcase was red. Would they have used ATF? Are the upper bearings splash lubricated? If so the oil will have to be light enough to splash--30W or lighter?

Does anyone know how the air blower works? Mine doesn't. Thanks--Mike.

BadDog
07-18-2009, 12:41 AM
Don't know about parts, but perhaps can help with the blower. It should have a plastic donut of a piston thingy on the recip shaft. That piston is a sliding fit in the over-sized (for the recip shaft) hole in the main casting. As it goes up and down, that plastic piston compresses the air in that well, forcing it out the side and along the tube to blow away filings.

Edit: wow, I should proof read more. Looked like a copy/paste/edit misfire...

crrmeyer
07-18-2009, 01:11 AM
They are still being made and they still sell parts for them. I thought the parts prices were pretty good.

http://www.kellersaws.com/diefiler.html

http://members.cox.net/crmeyer/Keller_Die_Filer_Parts_List_200dpi.jpg

Randolph
07-18-2009, 08:26 AM
Does anyone know if this same information is available for a Butterfly die filer?

mikem
07-18-2009, 09:29 AM
There is a block of brass that slides in the yoke that raises and lowers the file holder and the pinion hole in that block and the pinion have a sloppy fit. I wonder if I could surface the pinion and bore the block oversize for an oilite bearing.

Are there any web references to parts prices? Otherwise I'll have to wait for Monday.

Of course, having some oil in it might make it run a little quieter! Thanks to all.

crrmeyer
07-18-2009, 09:41 AM
How did you fix the leaks? Is the pinion available without the crankshaft or must I buy the whole thing? The upper bearings are worn from pushing laterally too hard and long on the file without oil.

The search of previous posts helped me quite a bit. What little oil was left in the bottom of the crankcase was red. Would they have used ATF? Are the upper bearings splash lubricated? If so the oil will have to be light enough to splash--30W or lighter?

Does anyone know how the air blower works? Mine doesn't. Thanks--Mike.

Lets see... if memory serves there is a shaft seal (15) that fits after the two bearings (1/2 of 21) for the crank shaft (6). You can go to the automotive supply store are get a tube of form-a-gasket for sealing the body cover (5). If memory serves it uses 30W non-detergent motor oil (also available from your local automotive supply store).

I owned one for a while and replaced all the internal parts. The only quirk was the replacement parts were not completely interchangable due to tollerances (probably of the main casting). I ended up using the original yoke bearing block (22) with the new parts and it worked fine. Keller took the unused parts back for refund.

Good luck!

quasi
07-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Mine leaked between the base plate and the main casting. RTV silicone fixed it very well.

mikem
07-18-2009, 04:47 PM
Do they all clunk slightly when the file changes directions or is that because of mine being worn?

quasi
07-18-2009, 06:10 PM
mine does not "clunk", it was in very nice shape when I got it.

mikem
07-18-2009, 10:28 PM
That's what I was afraid of--excessive wear must be the cause. Thanks

Doc Nickel
07-19-2009, 12:38 AM
Don't know if it'll help you any, but here's a pic of my "Scotch Yoke" and block, and then a picture of them assembled:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/kellerinterior2.jpg

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/kellerinterior.jpg

Mine does not "clunk", it's actually very smooth. The brass/bronze block is a surprisingly tight fit to the carrier/yoke. I don't see why a person couldn't carefully mill the worn faces of the yoke (removing as little as possible, and making the new surfaces as smooth as possible) and making a new brass or bronze block to fit the new dimensions.

Ditto the crankpin- if it's not too worn, turn it down ever so slightly (might be kind of a trick to chuck it though) to clean up the worn surface, then make the new block fit that new dimension.

And mind that top oil hole.

Doc.

boslab
07-19-2009, 02:21 AM
i had an old clunker, used that [slick 50] ptfe gear oil/box treatment, still works
mark

mikem
07-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Doc:
Your pictures didn't come through.

I didn't think about that hole needing to be on top. This thing is quite a machine. Thanks for the help.

crrmeyer
07-20-2009, 10:09 AM
I have a related Keller die filer question hopefully someone out there can help me with. I have an application that I need a pulley cover for and the Keller one might be just right. Unfortunately I do not have a Keller any more to make the measurements from. If possible, could someone please measure the diameters of the two pulleys and the center to center spacing? Also the overall dimensions of the cover would be great.

Thanks

Charles

mikem
07-20-2009, 10:57 AM
The overall length of the cover is 16" and I know that the large pulley on mine is 6". I think that the small one is a double one with a 2" and 1.5" diameter sheaves--it is at home right now. Center spacing is a bit imprecise since the motor is mounted on a hinged base. Looks like about 10.75" based on the cover. The cover is about 7.25" on the big end and 4" on the smaller end.

crrmeyer
07-21-2009, 12:48 AM
The overall length of the cover is 16" and I know that the large pulley on mine is 6". I think that the small one is a double one with a 2" and 1.5" diameter sheaves--it is at home right now. Center spacing is a bit imprecise since the motor is mounted on a hinged base. Looks like about 10.75" based on the cover. The cover is about 7.25" on the big end and 4" on the smaller end.

Thanks for the dimensions. It looks like I need something a bit smaller so I'll just have to make one.

Charles

mikem
07-21-2009, 12:57 AM
Great pictures Doc! Very helpful.

I found some oilite bearings to fit the shaft that holds the files and installed them, but when the trostel seal that was on top came out (besides being a little mashed from being driven out) I found that the hole for the blower had been covered by the seal. That can't be right or else the blower wouldn't have ever worked. Maybe it isn't the right seal--it the same as the one on the horizontal shaft.

The plastic cup on the file shaft has to go into the recess at the top of the casting to force the air out the dust blower tube. I am not sure how the seal is supposed to be mounted and how far down into the recess. Maybe the seal is supposed to be dimpled to allow air past the outside and into the air port?

I called the Keller guys several times today and left a message but have not gotten a return call, so I am dead in the water for now.

How about air compressor oil for the crank case of the die filer? I found some at Tractor Supply. It said that it was non-detergent. About the right viscosity? It was rated but not in SAE numbers. I think that it said "100".