Getting into CNC Milling

[BigBoy1]

I have receive a small inheritance and I would like to invest in a CNC milling machine. I'm looking at the table top models as I don't have the room nor the funds to get a larger model. I've done web searching and the three that I have found that I think would fit my uses are the Tormach CN1100, the CNC Masters CNC Jr. and the Smithy 622.

Any opinions or comments on the ones I have found? I would like to know if there are others that I should be considering? I'm in the process of teaching myself how to use BobCAD so I'll have a program that will generate G-codes to drive the machines.

Would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.

[boaterri]

You might consider an Industrial Hobbies machine. They are located in Conneticut and produce a stout machine.

Rick

[toastydeath]

This has nothing to do with hardware, and obviously very opinionated:

I'd really re-think using bobcad until you have a firm grip of hand written g-code. If that's possible, of course - if you're doing complex 3d geometry, it's unreasonable. If you're machining mostly flats and holes, really get a firm grip on g-code before going to CAM software.

CAM only, you've got yourself a crutch.

G-code, then cam, you've got yourself a tool.

The only time I really touch cad/cam software is to do large irregular arrays/patterns of things that would be unreasonably difficult to program.

[BigBoy1]

This has nothing to do with hardware, and obviously very opinionated:

I'd really re-think using bobcad until you have a firm grip of hand written g-code. If that's possible, of course - if you're doing complex 3d geometry, it's unreasonable. If you're machining mostly flats and holes, really get a firm grip on g-code before going to CAM software.

CAM only, you've got yourself a crutch.

G-code, then cam, you've got yourself a tool.

The only time I really touch cad/cam software is to do large irregular arrays/patterns of things that would be unreasonably difficult to program.

Sir,

I have taken a semester CNC coding course at the local community college and all of the G-coding was done by hand written coding. We had to learn the functions of the many different codes such as G41 is for left cutter compensation. We wrote by hand several rather complex milling machine patterns.

As to your concern, yes I know the G-codes and have used them for the machines at school. I'm using the BobCAD as a drawing package and when I have mastered that, I plan on using it for the generation of the G-codes. I would like to be able to do it in my own shop on my own small CNC mill.

[JoeFin]

Not to mention FULLY mastering Cam software is no small feat either. I only question the use of BobCad because I haven’t heard that many positive comments about it.

Cam has its advantages over handwritten G code in the fact changes on complexed pieces can be performed in seconds and not hours. I know when I’m working in the early morning hours and the creative juices are flowing, I’ll pull 2 mating parts off the mill and if the fit is not just perfect, or the angle isn’t radical enough, I know with a couple of clicks and in very little time I can be running the right part

The main problem I have with Hobby sized table top machines is the Max allowable table load is so low you could never use a vise. That or you will be forever exceeding the maximum recommended table load weight. So your limited to “Table Milling” (work piece clamped to table) which seems to me waste a lot more material. Might not be much of a concern for the Hobbyist running 1-off parts.

Of the 3 machines you listed, I would stay away from a “Round Column” mill (perhaps move up to a Baron CNC Masters) and sorry but if you need to perform “slotting” or “Deep Hole Drilling” even on Al. you’re going to want flood coolant of some sorts

[MikeHenry]

I've had a Tormach for a couple of years now and have been happy with it. There were a few minor problems but Tormach was very good about support and maintain a good spare parts inventory. Mine went into the basement of our townhome, which was a bit easier to do than I expected. If you go with Tormach you will be able to buy Alibre (3D CAD) and SprutCAM Expert (including 4th/5th axis and lathe support) from them for a very good price. One of the things I liked about Tormach was the extensive documentation they provide on their web site and the number of accessories that they provide. Their TTS (manual tool change) system works very well for me and they have a Duality lathe (modified 7x10) that mounts on the mill table and uses the mill X and Z axes to perform lathe CNC operations.

So far as other brands go, you might check out Novakon (looks identical to Smithy), Industrial Hobbies, and Makini (sp?).

Reading through the IH, Smithy, Novakon, and Tormach sections on CNC-Zone might be useful to get a sense of each mill's capabilities and users satisfaction with each.

Mike

[MikeHenry]

Big Boy,

Forgot to add that most or all of those manufacturers will supply contact info for local owners that are willing to discuss or show you their mills. I'd hate to spend that kind of money without getting a look at the mill first.

[Steve Seebold]

I hope I'm not too late, but before I looked at a Tormac, I would look at a used Haas Mini. There are some incredible deals out there right now. If you get a Tormac with options, you're going to spend close to $11,000.00 and you'll have to change tools yourself. If you shop around you can probably find a used Haas Mini for around $15,000.00, and it will be a fully enclosed machine, and a Haas Mini will run on single phase powerand it has a 6,000 RPM spindle opposed to the Tormac's 5,000 and it will rigid tap. I think you'll be mush happier with that set up than you will with the Tormac.

[JoeFin]

I hope I'm not too late, but before I looked at a Tormac, I would look at a used Haas Mini. There are some incredible deals out there right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320411898807&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

No doubt there are some very good deals out there

[Steve Seebold]

That's a nice Bridgeport, but you can still get parts for a Haas.

[ghostryder]

The haas toolroom mills are also a good choice for the budget minded home enthusist, and they share most of the options as the mini.

[madman]

My buddy bought a Brand New B PORT years agom he still curses that name trouble galore Finally he bought a small Fadal and says nothing but good about it.

[Steve Seebold]

I had a Haas tool room mill in my shop, and it was a great machine. The only thing wrong with the Haas was it was slow. I did primarily prototype work, so the speed wasn't an issue. I am considering buying another one so I can have something in my garage.

[madman]

BUY IT NOW $5000. and get ready for a world of pain. My friend still today when I mention the word Bridgeport can cuss in an amazing fashion. It still sits unused in his shop. He did fool with it a LOT. He made a z axis counterbalnce weight for it, which helped stop some of the servo z problems but there were so many other issues. Worst was having a service tech come in and after a few days leave shaking his head. Anyhow just wanted to say that.

[Modular CNC]

Hi All,

BobCAD is a great software for g-code generation. I would wait to buy it on sale.

As for a milling machine, I would spend money on an older CNC Knee Mill but make sure it has ballscrews already installed. Scrap the control and go with Gecko controls and Mach 3 software.

Thanks,

Andy

[Steve Seebold]

Hi All,

BobCAD is a great software for g-code generation. I would wait to buy it on sale.

Thanks,

Andy

I just bought a seat of BobCad 23. What a piece of crap. It has to be the mose cumbersome software I have ever tried to use. And when you need training or tech support, you have to pay for it. I'll stick with my GibbsCam.

[madman]

Special last week at toronto machine show. 10 percent off. $9100 new. They use bobcad? I like mastercam 9.1

[sansbury]

Bobcad can be pretty ugly but what other options are even close in price? Beat the salespeople hard (especially now) and you can probably get it under $500 with the training videos. I found those were essential as the software doesn't come with any manual or tutorials.

[Mark Hockett]

Bobcad can be pretty ugly but what other options are even close in price? Beat the salespeople hard (especially now) and you can probably get it under $500 with the training videos. I found those were essential as the software doesn't come with any manual or tutorials.

What about Vectric?
http://www.vectric.com/
Their Cut 2D CAM package is $149 and the Cut 3D package is $299. I saw a demo of it at the Harrogate show and it looked impressive. If I didn't have Mastercam X4 I would probably be running Vectric.

[Steve Seebold]

I bought a seat of BobCad 23, and for another $600.00 I can go to their training seminar to learn how to use it, then if I want tech support, that's another $375.00, and training is another $375.

I'll stick with my GibbsCam thank you very much.

[John Stevenson]

Take a look at this.

http://www.sharpcam.co.uk/

New software but it has some impressive features, watch a couple of the video's especially the one on pocketing.

.

[MikeHenry]

Bobcad can be pretty ugly but what other options are even close in price? Beat the salespeople hard (especially now) and you can probably get it under $500 with the training videos. I found those were essential as the software doesn't come with any manual or tutorials.

SprutCAM Expert is around $1,000 if purchased with a Tormach mill. That version includes support for 4th/5th axis and a lathe module. Add another $200 for a years worth of tutorial access from the SprutCAM UK tech support site. The tutorials are well worth the money if you are new to CAM, as I was. The manual and on-line help system is extensive, but translated from Russian and both were really hard for me to use as the sole means of learning.