Which Milling Machine?

[jgourlay]

Gents: I've been mulling over getting a milling machine for some time and have never pulled the trigger. But I'm about ready to start seriously shopping.

Basic question: what is the smallest, most cost effective milling machine out there with the envelope and stiffness to do a 1911 out of stainless? I want to do a whole variety of projects, most not firearms related. But the stainless 1911 is to my current understanding the most "demanding" of the projects I have in mind from the perspective of plunge depth, stiffness, envelope etc.

Prefer a machine that is amenable to later CNC modification. STRONGLY prefer a bench top machine as shop space is ridiculously tight. Have a lathe (12 x 36 1944 Atlas/Craftsman).

[Snag_one]

Look at the RF45 clones , Lathemaster has them in stock (unless they sold out again) Wholesale Tools is where I bought mine . Enco also sells one , but IIRC their price was a bit higher - and there's always Horrible Fright . A pretty big benchtop unit , it weighs in at around 800 pounds . Mine has a 9" X 32" table with 8 and 21 inches travel , respectively . A 1 1/2 hp motor is plenty for what I do .
I wouldn't hesitate to mill a 1911 frame on this machine , in fact , my youngest son and i have plans to build a couple of AR's on mine - probably from raw forgings , if I can figger out how to cut the mag well properly .
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

[sonny moorehouse]

I have the free frieght code for enco wBJgP just tell the sales rep the code.

Sonny Moorehouse

[gnm109]

Personally, I would stay away from anything like a round-column Mill-Drill. Without generalizing too awfully much, they have a tendency to move under a heavy cut. Furthermore, they are constantly out of tram when attempting to change height.

Stainless is demanding stuff for a precision cut such as a 1911 frame, or any gun part for that matter. Such work demands great rigidity in a machine which usually means more weight.

My preference for gun work would include at the very least a moveable knee so that the head would not need to be re-trammed each time it's moved. It's very difficult to get the rigidity and repeatability that good mill work requires in a bench-top machine. It can be done but it requires a great deal more work.

By way of establishing my credentials to make such statements, I owned an H.F. Round Column Mill Drill for nearly ten years and recently replaced it with a Taiwanese Bridgeport Clone. The difference has been a real eye-opener to me. Part of the difference is 3,500 pounds sitting on a rock-solid heavy cast-iron base versus 750 pounds on a thin metal stand.

I know that great work can be done on machines as small as the three-in one H.F. units and even Sherline machines. Some of those have even been converted to CNC successfully. Nonetheless, I think a knee mill of some sort would be more suitable. My comments represent my own observations and my own opinion. Someone else may have a different take on this and it's fine with me.

:)

[gzig5]

Where are you?

I have a Sheldon #0 Horizontal mill with a Rusnok vertical head. It takes up 2' x 2 1/2' of floorspace, wieghs about 800 lbs, and should be able to handle anything you throw at it.
Greg

[Jim Stabe]

Personally, I would stay away from anything like a round-column Mill-Drill. Without generalizing too awfully much, they have a tendency to move under a heavy cut. Furthermore, they are constantly out of tram when attempting to change height.

Stainless is demanding stuff for a precision cut such as a 1911 frame, or any gun part for that matter. Such work demands great rigidity in a machine which usually means more weight.

My preference for gun work would include at the very least a moveable knee so that the head would not need to be re-trammed each time it's moved. It's very difficult to get the rigidity and repeatability that good mill work requires in a bench-top machine. It can be done but it requires a great deal more work.

By way of establishing my credentials to make such statements, I owned an H.F. Round Column Mill Drill for nearly ten years and recently replaced it with a Taiwanese Bridgeport Clone. The difference has been a real eye-opener to me. Part of the difference is 3,500 pounds sitting on a rock-solid heavy cast-iron base versus 750 pounds on a thin metal stand.

I know that great work can be done on machines as small as the three-in one H.F. units and even Sherline machines. Some of those have even been converted to CNC successfully. Nonetheless, I think a knee mill of some sort would be more suitable. My comments represent my own observations and my own opinion. Someone else may have a different take on this and it's fine with me.

:)
I agree with looking for a moveable knee machine. I used to own a Rong Fu round column machine and it just wasn't stiff enough to do any type of precision work much less in stainless. I got an used but in good shape, Kondia mill last year and I would never consider working on a round column Chinese machine again for all the reasons stated above.

That said, if you want a bench machine take a look at these
http://www.ihcnc.com/pages/comparison.php They appear to be much stronger and designed with the intent of retrofitting CNC.

[norvil1]

i my opinion you can not go wrong with a tormach. i own one and would buy another one without hesitation. just my 2 cents.

[Snag_one]

Y'all realize that all benchtop machines are NOT created equal , doncha ? The RF45 I referenced a few replies up is a dovetail column machine , and is capable of the same precision as a knee mill . I just received a pair of 3/4" extra long end mills , with the intent of using them to cut the mag well in an AR forged lower blank ...
This type mill is also a good candidate for CNC conversion , using either the existing acme screws or mounting ballscrews . I'll get there someday , as the budget allows . Right now it's all I can afford to DRO one axis at a time .

Snag
wannabe machinist

[Seastar]

For whatever its worth, I bought a WT 6X26 mill two years ago and it has done everything I have asked of it. Of course a larger, more expensive, heavier machine would be better but the 6X26 is very capable.
I have not machined a 1911 frame but have no doubt that it would do the job.
I have built many guns or parts for guns using the 6X26 mill and my 1946 Logan lathe.
I think the key is to have a knee type machine at best and a square column machine at least.
Bill
By the way, I posted a question about twist steel barrels a few days ago and the post disappeared.
Are twist steel barrels a forbiden subject??????

[bob308]

i was thinking of one of those mill drills,about 15 years ago. a friend found me a clausing 8520 i used that for many years still have it i also have a enco b-p clone. i ran the toolroom at one place that had 2 mill drills on the floor for drilling and tapping and lite milling i came to one conclusion they do not do either mill or drill well. you spend more time setting up and changing belts then you do using it.

spend the money up front and get a knee mill of any size you can the bigger the better. the 6x26 are good if you have a small shop and it is hard to get machinery into. enco has a 2/3 size b-p clone that is heaver if you have the room and the way to move it.

[Highpower]

enco has a 2/3 size b-p clone that is heaver if you have the room and the way to move it.

I bought this one with a 20% off code for the same price as a bench top unit. Free shipping to boot. :D

I'll bet the foot print is about the same as a bench top w/stand too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects/Mill_Assembled.jpg

[bob308]

highpoer is that the 8x36" table ? do you like it? by the picture it is way better then a mill drill.

[JCHannum]

For whatever its worth, I bought a WT 6X26 mill two years ago and it has done everything I have asked of it. Of course a larger, more expensive, heavier machine would be better but the 6X26 is very capable.
I have not machined a 1911 frame but have no doubt that it would do the job.
I have built many guns or parts for guns using the 6X26 mill and my 1946 Logan lathe.
I think the key is to have a knee type machine at best and a square column machine at least.
Bill
By the way, I posted a question about twist steel barrels a few days ago and the post disappeared.
Are twist steel barrels a forbiden subject??????

Another vote for the 6" X 26" knee mills. Mine is a Rockwell Delta, which the chicoms combined with the Clausing mill to clone their 6" X 26" mill. I used it to finish a stainless decorator frame M1911 with no problems at all.

Bill; Your post is in this thread toward the end, maybe you posted to that somehow.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?p=461287#post461287

[Highpower]

highpoer is that the 8x36" table ? do you like it? by the picture it is way better then a mill drill. Yes, 8x36. Would have loved a Bridgeport - but there was NO way one would have fit in my tiny little basement. You can see that the motor on the "beast" is almost into the floor joists overhead, but it does fit. :)

Do I like it?
Let's just say, you can't knock the grin off my face with a shovel. :D

[loose nut]

Y'all realize that all benchtop machines are NOT created equal , doncha ? The RF45 I referenced a few replies up is a dovetail column machine , and is capable of the same precision as a knee mill . I just received a pair of 3/4" extra long end mills , with the intent of using them to cut the mag well in an AR forged lower blank ...
This type mill is also a good candidate for CNC conversion , using either the existing acme screws or mounting ballscrews . I'll get there someday , as the budget allows . Right now it's all I can afford to DRO one axis at a time .

Snag
wannabe machinist

I also bought the same machine from Wholesale tools and it is decent machine, far superior to the round column type and better than the HF version. I also put the power feed on it and with that it leaves a beautiful finish. Defiantly worth a look

[DennisNYS]

HighPower,

What are those feet / legs on the bottom of your mill ?
Are they adjustable ?

[Highpower]

Machine leveling / anti-vibration mounts. Adjustable "pads" for easy leveling of the machine, with a rubbery "hockey puck" base that prevents vibration/noise in the machine from transferring to the floor - and vice versa.

Several different types / capacities available. For example:
http://www.reidsupply.com/GrpResults.aspx?pid=10022006&aitm=SX-2&apid=10022006&bi=

[gwilson]

I have a Bridgeport clone. It is fine. Several years ago,I got one of those benchtop knee mills you all have been discussing. It looked very nice and not worn. Then I discovered its table slipped on the leadscrew. Took it apart,and the leadscrew nuts were threaded only about 1/32" deep into their brass blocks,which wore right out. I bought it for my wife's jewelry shop,which was located away from home at the time,where I have a machine shop.

It is an Enco,and no parts are available. Also,since the leadscrews are METRIC,and the dials are ENGLISH,there are leftover graduations on the dials,making it a PITA to crank the dials several turns to do,say,drill accurately spaced holes several inches apart.

I bought some expensive precision Acme threaded rod to make new leadscrews,and made Acme taps to go with them. Then,my wife closed the store,and moved it back home. The machine was no longer needed.

I sold the machine,plus the threaded rods to someone to finish up. The new leadscrews will make the dials come out even at .200" per turn. Of course the dials will have to be re graduated,too.

Think about these issues before buying a similar knee mill,please.

[bvd1940]

You might look at this mill from Grizzly,http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484
I just ordered mine.
Just my 2 cents worth, back to lurking.:D
Bill in SE Idaho

[Bguns]

For small shop Gunsmithing mainly type work..

Hard to beat a Bridgeport Round Ram. Preferably with a J Head, but even a M Head will do most any gunsmithing work...

The 9 x 32 in table is in same size zone as a WONG FU, Parts for basic machine are plentiful, (Not so much for M Head) Power feeds, DRO's, VFD's easy to add...

And a Used Round Ram can be picked up for 200 to 1000 most places...

[Falcon67]

You might look at this mill from Grizzly,http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484
I just ordered mine.
Just my 2 cents worth, back to lurking.:D
Bill in SE Idaho

Have one or order too - but have sent an inquiry to Lathemaster. Could save a lot of $$$ with the Lathemaster item. Note that the Lathemaster machine is a newer ZAY7045FG with a hair more Y travel. Too bad nobody seems to carry the ZAY7045FG/2 - it has the power head drive on it.

[Boucher]

I went to an auction where a shop in the rural area was closing and going out of business. Long storey short three working cnc mills went for less than $1000 each. Buy bigger than you think you need. The wife open the local small town news paper one sunday morning and says there is a milling machine in the paper. Bought a good 9X42 Bridgeport with power feed and dro for $2300.

[jgourlay]

Thanks gents. You've given me enough to get started.

I envy, deeply, all the folks who live in areas where used machinery is available.
Here in Harris county it doesn't matter the machine: it's either junk for a high price, or good stuff for a high price that moves 5 minutes after the add goes live.