1895 Nagant conversion

[Highpower]

Fitting a .32acp cylinder to this revolver and need to cut the locking notches on the outer circumference for the loading gate. (They are just a bit short.) What is the best way to go about cutting these to get the correct angles with an end mill?

[Rusty Marlin]

Got a drawing? Yeah I know, stupid question.
How about a pic of the originals?

[Highpower]

No drawings (of course) but pics I can do....

The original fluted 7.62x38R cylinder, and the new un-fluted .32 acp cylinder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects/P8170043.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects/P8170046.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Projects/P8170047.jpg

[Rusty Marlin]

I'd hold it in a four jaw chuck in my universal dividing head by the body with whe the ratched end exposed; centering the cyclinder on the OD vs the ID of the base pin hole.

I think I'd start with the original and get the angle right using an indicator and then reset with the new one. Once the angle is found, time the new cyclinder off the outer cylinder latch cuts if possable.

The new cyclinder is quite different ins't it? The ratchet is a different shape as are the face cuts (deeper in the new one). Does the new one function properly?

[Highpower]

The new cyclinder is quite different ins't it? The ratchet is a different shape as are the face cuts (deeper in the new one). Does the new one function properly? Yes it is, quite different indeed. Korean mfg vs. Russian. :(
As received, (pic below) the new cylinder did not function at all due to the ratchet geometry. They are the same height however. After a lot of hand filing and stoning it now advances beautifully..... as long as the loading gate is left open. If closed, the spring tension of the loading gate (lug) bearing on the far side of the cylinder notches causes the cylinder to over-rotate and pull it out of time when it finally locks up.

I actually just found a .dwg of the original cylinder but don't have a clue as to how I could post it here. I know less than nothing about using Acad. :(

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Temp/P8040032.jpg

[chuckinnc]

I planned on maybe picking up a couple of these from Century Arms or some other dealer for my 1895s, however I thought they were plug and play. Does this mean you have to finish machining the cylinders to make them work? The .32 longs work well in my 1895s but every now and then I get a split case so I need to convert it properly before it converts me. I dont mean to jack the thread but would like alittle more info on the cylinder you are using.

[Highpower]

You roll the dice and take your chances on these cylinders. It really depends on 1) who made the cylinder, 2) how much wear there is on your particular gun, and 3) how close the tolerances were when the gun was manufactured. That last one varies a great deal from what I understand, since these are rather crudely made weapons. :o

Some people got lucky and dropped them into their gun with no problems what-so-ever. Others say only "minor" fitting was required. I've spoken with people that own multiple 1895's and say that a cylinder might work in 2 out of their 5 guns. I believe the ones that are/were "plug & play" are NOS (new, old stock) cylinders that were manufactured for or imported by several distributors years ago.

The cylinder I have, I got recently from S.O.G. and I believe it is a more recent manufacture out of Korea. Nowhere close to being a drop in fit, so I have to make it work because it has "extra" material on it to allow for proper fitting to an individual gun.

I would suggest you check with the usual suspects (Century, AIM, gunbroker, etc.) and avoid S.O.G. if you want to take a chance on getting an "older" cylinder that MIGHT work right out of the gate. :rolleyes:

Regarding the split .32 long cases - do you reload? I hear that reforming .30 carbine brass is the hot ticket these days.... :)
HTH.

[chuckinnc]

Until I bought some (Aquila?) brand at the gun show, I noticed they were make in Mexico and some of them split. None of the USA brands ever did, I will be getting back into reloading soon though. I cant afford to feed my Taraus judge
with 45 long colts and .410 shells at current prices, so I will consider the 30
brass as a alternative to a cylinder that may or may not work for the 1895s.

[Highpower]

I hear that. I figure one of these days the price of .32 acp will fall back to earth. In the mean time it's still cheaper than the Fiocchi Nagant ammo.

[Rusty Marlin]

So how did you make out with this Highpower? Got that old war horse up and running yet?

[Highpower]

Rusty,
Unfortunately this one is on the back burner for awhile. I've got too many other things that need to be done before I can devote any more time to this right now. (Dang priorities!) :p
I do appreciate your input on this, as I now have a plan of attack for when I do get back to it. Couple of things I will have to work around though....

The only indexer I have is a 5C, so that isn't going to help any. :rolleyes:
I do have a rotary table but I only have a 3-jaw chuck for that. I'll just have rely on a roll of tape to get her dialed in if need be. I have been using the rotab on my drill press and just discovered the mounting holes for horizontal use do not match the slot spacing on my new mill - naturally. Also discovered that there is very little space between the base and the table circumference for a hold down nut or a table clamp. I already ordered extra short T-slot studs because the shortest ones in my hold down set are still too long.

The fact that you mentioned a drawing previously proved to be a major breakthrough for me however. Never in a million years would I have believed that I would find drawings for this gun, but somehow I managed to stumble across some. I think I have the angles and dimensions now for these cuts, but if anyone would be willing to accept an emailed copy of the cylinder.dwg file and verify for me - it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[weestrommer]

is actually .32 sharps SS brass. but fiocci makes the real deal and it is re-loadable. the berdan priming is no big deal and the orig. cases reload easily use a can opener de capper. The .32-20 reforms to make a slightly short version of this case, but you have to thin the rim. this revolver has no throat in the cyl. and really needs a case that runs the full length of the cyl. to shoot well that is why the .32 sharps SS brass works well ( you have to thin the rim a bit) also the .310 cadet brass works.

as to re cutting the notches it can be done in a vise on the mill using plugs in the charge holes and an angle block, and work stop and dovetail cutter.

[Highpower]

as to re cutting the notches it can be done in a vise on the mill using plugs in the charge holes and an angle block, and work stop and dovetail cutter. Ahhhh! I like that idea of using pins in the chambers and an angle block. Sounds much easier than trying to indicate each of the current "short" notches. I have to ask, what is the benefit of using a dovetail cutter? The drawing I have shows an included angle of 135° for the notches.

Of course, I had to tell SWMBO that I HAD to order an indexer and tail stock in the mean time..... :D

[Rusty Marlin]

At a boy! talk her into all the toy, er tools you can. :D

[weestrommer]

using a dovetail cutter out of habit and I have a lot of odd ones that I made up for cutting ratchets for custom made cyls. for revolvers for so many years. I have discovered over the yaers that revolver cyls, use very basic geometry for the most part if you really sit down and look at them. and that lends itself to very simple fixturing in a vise for making them.;)