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Davek0974
08-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Hi all,

i want to make a portable coolant system, ive got the tank and piping. I tend to use water soluble coolant.

Does the pump have to be the usual metal built unit or could i use say a small submersible pond pump?

Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Dave

derekm
08-12-2009, 04:01 PM
Hi all,

i want to make a portable coolant system, ive got the tank and piping. I tend to use water soluble coolant.

Does the pump have to be the usual metal built unit or could i use say a small submersible pond pump?

Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Dave
Any pump thats comfortable pumping both oil & water with small abrasive solids and can generate a few feet of head with a reasonable flow.. A lot of submersible pond pumps woulld fit that bill.
- Warning - Small pumps often require a significant flow to cool the motor.
Coolant situations are often - low to no flow. This can burn your motor out.

However if you have a constant return to the tank (bypass) so you can't have low-zero flow through the pump you can both keep the pump cool and turn it into an advantage by using the return to aerate the coolant.

Davek0974
08-12-2009, 04:03 PM
Ok, i'll give it a go.

I've read before about aerating the coolant, what does that do??

Dave

small.planes
08-12-2009, 04:13 PM
IIRC it helps to stop the anaerobic bacteria from turning your suds into stinky HSE swallowing goo.
A tramp oil skimmer is probably a good idea as well.

Dave

(Who has yet to get round to setting up proper coolant...)

John Stevenson
08-12-2009, 04:33 PM
Throwing next doors cat in also aerates the coolant as well and uses less electric..........

.[edit]

Once built a big grinder that reground spherical balls out of those 1/4 turn valves mind you this puppy was 1.4 metres in diameter, 55" to those that have trouble reading English posts from the UK [ not the EU ]

We threw two of those Hippo ™ plastic submersible pumps in the bottom of the 60 gallon coolant tank and fed them to the two work heads on 1 " bore pipe.

Running on 240 volts, completely covered in coolant, ran flawlessly for the 3 weeks it was on test and is probably still running out in the Russian oil fields.

macona
08-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Typical submersible pond pumps have a magnet for a rotor exposed to the water. If you are dealing with small ferrous fines then they will jam up the pump. Use a shaft drive pump that has an oil immersed motor.

millwrong
08-12-2009, 09:41 PM
"Once built a big grinder that reground spherical balls out of those 1/4 turn valves"

Aren't balls usually spherical? What with your English posts and all, I don't want to be too North American:D

JoeFin
08-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Any Fractional HP (1/8 - 1/2) Impeller type pump will be fine - lets not over think the thing here. The only thing you'll want to keep in mind is the amount of "Lift" and you'll have to most likely refer to the manufacture's website for those specs

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-MARCH-MAY-230-VOLT-WATER-PUMP-MODEL-QUAD-4000_W0QQitemZ270440758457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Pu mps?hash=item3ef7867cb9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I've built several coolant tank/pump set ups for my machines. As long as the tank has a baffle section to separate out the goop they will last years and years even in the worst environment such as on a Grinder with all its fine metallic particulates.

If you must try using 3M Blitz cloth for a screen/filter

wtrueman
08-13-2009, 01:10 AM
Pump: How about an oil pump from a car? I have used this style from a chev. It has a screen built in. Hook it up to a small variable rpm drill with a pipe and hose attached to the outlet. That way you get the pressure you want. Plus, if you want, add an oil filter such as used on kerosene oil stoves. These filters are cheap and plentiful. wayne.

Glacern
08-13-2009, 02:16 AM
Several years ago, we retrofitted an old surface grinder with a makeshift coolant system, using a 700 GPH submersible Pondmaster pump.

We used two Rubbermaid "Ruffneck" 18 gallon tubs. The bottom tub contained the coolant and the pump, while the top tub (with holes drilled through the bottom) contained filter material to remove the grinding swarf from the returning coolant. Never had any problems.

Davek0974
08-13-2009, 02:56 AM
Thanks all, good stuff there

i'll fit a weir to trap the crap and go with a cheapo pump to start with.

Thanks

Dave

Circlip
08-13-2009, 03:25 AM
If all balls were spherical Millwrong it would certainly screw the Rose Bowl game. Make a bugger of the RL final as well.

Regards Ian.

oldtiffie
08-13-2009, 03:39 AM
Ian, I had to smile at the "Rugby Ball" bit.

There is an urban myth (old) that says the the boys were playing foot-ball (no - real foot-ball = aka soccer) on the playing fields of Ruby (famous English Public School) and one shy, hesitant lad had the ball - in his hands (mortal sin!!) with the pack thundering toward him. He was terrified, rooted to the spot with fear, and in a trembling soto voce asked the coach "Please Sir, what do I do with this (round) ball?".

To which the coach appropriately responded.

And that Ladeez 'n Gennul'm'n is why a Rugby (foot) ball is generally oval in shape with points on both ends.

I thought you'd like to know that.

lakeside53
08-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Thanks all, good stuff there

i'll fit a weir to trap the crap and go with a cheapo pump to start with.

Thanks

Dave

A big magnet in the bucket works wonders on steel/iron swarf/grit.

Rich Carlstedt
08-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Yes a garden pump does fine.
It is built for running long hours, and as long as you keep the chips out, it works, and will continue for many years.
Check here for some tips in a previous post with photos
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=35465

one of the secrets is using women's nylon stockings (their called "knee highs")for filters.
I can buy 10 pair for 3 dollars at Walmart
they are tough and fine.
Stick the pump itself in a very small plastic bowl, inside the 6 gallon pail.
that way it does not pick up fines off the bottom. Fluid level must be higher obviously. I keep it at least 50mm (2") above the edge of the bowl, when the system is running.
With a 6 foot head , I still need to throttle volume down using one 3/8" snap-loc coolant system

Rich

Davek0974
08-13-2009, 03:19 PM
NIce ideas, i didnt know coolant lasted that long!

Here's the situation and a problem...

I have two mills, a Bridgeport and next to it (soon) a horizontal. The BP has a fully working coolant system with external tank and the pump from the BP. This works well as i can easily control the destination of the splash on it and all of the return comes from the table channels. The base tank is empty and the base tray just collects oil runoff from the ways etc.

The horizontal is a different beast as i understand they need more coolant flow and can also run with work overhanging the table so the splash tends to run down to the sump any way it wants to as designed. The sump is buggered, its got 2" of near solid coolant gunk in it and i have no way of shifting it, it came that way. The only thing i have that i have not tried yet is a steam wallpaper stripper, maybe that will soften it up?

I want to have one coolant system i can move from one to the other. Luckily the horizontal has a single table return for coolant, its just the oversplash that could complicate things a bit. I think the seperate tank is still the best idea.

Dave

derekm
08-13-2009, 03:28 PM
acetone shifts most things
Though I would try paraffin first

John Stevenson
08-13-2009, 04:01 PM
Dave,
Use trays to overcome the oversplash, as in the horizontal feeds post.

.

derekm
08-13-2009, 04:29 PM
Given you are so stuck for space, you might run in to the problem of the mobile tank just getting in the way.(like my vacuumcleaner does) I have you considered plumbing all the machines upto one pump? 32mm waste pipe to carry the draining coolant and 15 or 10 mm PEX (JG Guest) to deliver the coolant. You could even have the tank outside the garage. If you could have the tank a few inches below garage floor level even better. I use this system in my 3m by 3m workshop delivering coolant to a lathe, mill and drilling machine. This way I use the same 20L of coolant, and one pump, but the tank is out of the way. I have a the 15mm delivery PEX go to 10 mm and then back into the 32
drain at the farthest point from the tank to flush swarf along the drain, aerate the coolant, and keep flow through the pump.
The tank is a plastic underbed storage box. The drain and supply run along walls with spurs to each machine.
The whole lot bought from B&Q.

Davek0974
08-14-2009, 02:26 AM
Given you are so stuck for space, you might run in to the problem of the mobile tank just getting in the way.(like my vacuumcleaner does) I have you considered plumbing all the machines upto one pump? 32mm waste pipe to carry the draining coolant and 15 or 10 mm PEX (JG Guest) to deliver the coolant. You could even have the tank outside the garage. If you could have the tank a few inches below garage floor level even better. I use this system in my 3m by 3m workshop delivering coolant to a lathe, mill and drilling machine. This way I use the same 20L of coolant, and one pump, but the tank is out of the way. I have a the 15mm delivery PEX go to 10 mm and then back into the 32
drain at the farthest point from the tank to flush swarf along the drain, aerate the coolant, and keep flow through the pump.
The tank is a plastic underbed storage box. The drain and supply run along walls with spurs to each machine.
The whole lot bought from B&Q.

Excellent idea.

Its all possible, splash containment is the only problem, trays will help overcome that, i'll check it all out as soon as the mill arrives this weekend.

BTW, i know tramp oil is the runoff from the ways etc, but what does it look like? If my coolant sits for a day or two it gets a brown layer on top, is that it or is that just the coolant seperating out? And why is a bad thing?

Dave

derekm
08-14-2009, 05:27 PM
Excellent idea.

Its all possible, splash containment is the only problem, trays will help overcome that, i'll check it all out as soon as the mill arrives this weekend.

BTW, i know tramp oil is the runoff from the ways etc, but what does it look like? If my coolant sits for a day or two it gets a brown layer on top, is that it or is that just the coolant seperating out? And why is a bad thing?

Dave
Thats the tramp oil. There are naturally occuring bacteria that eat oil. (oil spills have occured naturally before Torrey Canyon, Amoco Cadiz etc..) The anerobic ones, can excrete either amines or hdyrgen sulphide, either dont smell too good. These bacteria need water and an abscence of oxygen.
Good modern soluble (its miscible not soluble, and they're not even that its an emulsion) coolants given occasional aeration are good for many many months. One that I have found recommended for all metals and I am using at the moment is Castrol Hysol Excel. You can get from Cromwells in 5L containers.

Davek0974
08-15-2009, 03:13 AM
I see so its not bad for the coolant or work, just causes a stink/bacteria.

Another thing learnt.

Thanks