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View Full Version : please recommend oil based coolant for Hardinge HLV



DaHui
08-14-2009, 12:06 AM
Hi everyone,

So I pulled the trigger on a Hardinge HLV-H. All I can say is wow. It has flood coolant built in...the pump even runs! Figured coolant would be nice for things like threading, parting, and other slow speed ops. Can anyone recommend and oil based coolant? I've done some searching and it's not very clear what is oil based, what is not, and what works well.

Boucher
08-14-2009, 07:37 PM
I started with Texaco Almag which is a light mineral cutting oil it works great but is messy for me to use. I next used Ashburn 9000 water soluable cutting oil. The local machine tool supplier recommended it. He had it in stock so I didn't have to pay shipping. Works great as far as I can tell. I next tried Rustlick Cutzol WS 5050. I use it in both the flood coolant system on my lathe and for the Mister on the mill. All these were recommended by people with some experience but not experts. I would recommend that you call the Rustlick Rep tell him what you are doing and let him guide you. All these things work satisfactorily but there may be better things being developed. I tried Kool Mist in an old style fogger and it really irritated my breathing. I have recently built a clone of the Bjur mister for the milling machine. First indications are looking good.

DR
08-14-2009, 10:00 PM
How old are these machines? Do the manuals say it's okay to use soluble cutting oils?

The 5 or so Hardinge machines I've had all had labels saying not to use solubles, they were older machines. Maybe they now allow solubles?

lazlo
08-14-2009, 10:14 PM
The 5 or so Hardinge machines I've had all had labels saying not to use solubles, they were older machines. Maybe they now allow solubles?

Hmm, I didn't know that - I just bought a 5 gallon pail of Trim MicroSol 685 :( Does soluble oil eat paint like synthetics?

MaxxLagg
08-14-2009, 10:55 PM
http://www.csparks.com/hardinge/Manual/Page66-67.jpg

For the whole manual:

http://www.csparks.com/hardinge/Manual/index.html

toastydeath
08-14-2009, 11:37 PM
We use Blaser Swisslube at work. Big 55 gallon drums of the stuff. Unless you're really trying to get every single bloody second out of an insert in high volume production, soluble coolant is soluble coolant. Damn near any soluble cutting oil will work for home use.

The coolant doesn't eat paint; when the water evaporates, you're left with the original grimy oil you put into the water and it wipes up (though it's nasty and it smells).

Just so you know, coolant is an absolute mess, and you WILL eventually have a problem and soak EVERYTHING NEARBY with coolant. It's not so much a problem at a shop where you can bring a mop and rag around and wipe things down, but at home, with everything in such a cramped space and difficult to clean I'd be wary of using much coolant.

Glenn Wegman
08-15-2009, 07:39 AM
Hmm, I didn't know that - I just bought a 5 gallon pail of Trim MicroSol 685 :( Does soluble oil eat paint like synthetics?


No problem!

I've got an import lathe that is fine with soluable coolant that I can trade for that HLV-H.

I'll pay shipping! :)

JCHannum
08-15-2009, 08:06 AM
I have a DV59 manual that states oil base cutting fluids are recommended for maximum machine life.

In addition to the potential of rusting, a problem with water based coolants is their propensity for bacteriologic activity in long storage. The closed system of the lathe does not lend itself well to treatment to prevent spoilage.

As improvements were made in rust preventive additives, they may have modified their warnings, but I would still lean toward an oil based coolant. With the closed system, a good coolant will last a long time.

DR
08-15-2009, 12:45 PM
I know of a shop that uses soluble oil in their 20+ B&S screw machines (those were designed so the coolant/cutting fluid is also the bearing lubricant).

The solubles are undiluted, no water added. The reason is their parts go on to second operations on CNC machines. Straight cutting oil left on the screw machine parts would ruin the solubles in the follow on machines.

Did you guys know solubles have antibiotics added to prevent growth of nasties in the sumps? I had worked around machines with solubles for years. Never paid much attention to it, but little cuts healed well. Then I got an automatic Hardinge machine with the "no solubles" plaque. Straight oil doesn't have the antibiotics added. Little annoying cuts often became infected.

Solubles can act like paint remover. I had this experience with a repainted turret lathe. We were using the machine for die head threading so I ordered the most severe duty soluble I could find. The paint bubbled up exactly like you'd expect with remover. The tech people at the coolant maker explained the same ingredients that can get "under" a paint layer are same things that make it a good cutting agent. In this case it was a poor paint job for a machine tool, properly done machine paint jobs don't seem to be affected by solubles.

The head chemist at the coolant maker also mentioned to be very careful about skin exposure to solubles. He said given a choice he would much rather have his hands drenched with straight oil on a daily basis than with solubles.

Rustybolt
08-15-2009, 05:39 PM
the water ruins the the headstock bearings in a hardinge. it eventually washes out the grease. Same with a brownie. The headstock bearings are bronze and need a constant oil bath.

DaHui
08-16-2009, 09:38 PM
So I take it "soluble" refers to soluble oil...which is water based? If I'm going to look on MSC for an oil based coolant, what nomenclature should I look for?

In terms of rot, is that an issue with both water based and oil based?

Mcgyver
08-16-2009, 10:11 PM
the water ruins the the headstock bearings in a hardinge. it eventually washes out the grease. Same with a brownie. The headstock bearings are bronze and need a constant oil bath.

:confused:

http://www.csparks.com/hardinge/Manual/Page12-13.jpg



So I take it "soluble" refers to soluble oil...which is water based? If I'm going to look on MSC for an oil based coolant, what nomenclature should I look for?



go ahead use the water soluble

http://www.csparks.com/hardinge/Manual/Page66-67.jpg




In terms of rot, is that an issue with both water based and oil based?

use an aquarium aerator, the oxygen kills bacteria. also, as I recently learned, use a UV bacteria lamp - also available from pet stores. kills the algae forming bacteria - Rich C says he's getting years out of coolant with this trick - do some searches, lots here on it.

chrsbrbnk
08-16-2009, 11:48 PM
the dove tail ways have wipers that just let the stuff get under them, then it corrodes up the dovetails and everything else its trapped in. the only thing worse you could do would be leaving sandpaper grit all over the ways and maybe whack your file on the bed to clean out the teeth.

Boucher
08-18-2009, 10:20 PM
DaHui
One answer to your original question is in the first line of the first response.

I started with Texaco Almag which is a light mineral cutting oil it works great but is messy for me to use.

This is an old product may be by another name but what you are looking for is a light weight mineral cutting oil. Talk to your local oil distributators. Any light oil would probably do but some have additives that are speciffically designed to improve its cutting properties.

There is a lot of good information provided in these responses. I am going to take issue with Chrsbrbnk. If you don't use water soluable oil that is up to you. The rusting that you sited I have not experienced. That does not mean that what you said is wrong in your case/experience. The Rustlik products would be worth your time talking to one of their applications Reps. If you are interested.

Boucher
08-18-2009, 11:08 PM
Categories: Fluid; Lubricant

Material Notes: Texaco Almag oil delivers value through:
•Low viscosity that provides faster wetting of metal surfaces and penetration to the cutting zone.
•Excellent cooling properties, carrying heat away from the cutting zone.
•Excellent lubricity at the chip-tool interface, reducing frictional heat, improving tool life and surface finish.

Texaco Almag oil is a low viscosity, nonactive cutting oil for use in light duty machining and grinding operations on ferrous and nonferrous metals. It is particularly useful on aluminum, magnesium and their alloys.

Texaco Almag Oil is a straight mineral oil. It is a light-colored oil that possesses excellent cooling properties and high dielectric strength. Because of its composition, it is nonstaining for ferrous and nonferrous surfaces. It gives good wetting and penetration of cutting surfaces.

Texaco Almag oil is recommended for light duty machining and grinding operations on ferrous and nonferrous metals. It is excellent for aluminum, magnesium and their alloys. It is particularly suited for the machining of magnesium where the use of a water-based fluid could create a fire hazard.

Typical test data are average values only. Minor variations which do not affect product performance are to be expected in normal manufacturing.

CPS Number: 221564; MSDS Number: 10275