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loose nut
08-14-2009, 06:44 PM
Since small shapers are hard to come by, around here anyway, it struck me that a small lathe, 9 x 20 type, with the leadscrew, head stock and tail stock removed, the bed might be a candidate for conversion into a small planner by building a tool holding bridge over the top, an enlarged work holding area and some sort of power rigged up, hydraulics maybe, to drive the table, plus all the fiddly bits so it will increment the tool.

The cutting forces would be in the downward direction so that would hold the table down like the full sized ones.

Does this sound doable, much less work then a homemade shaper and the original lathe bed sets the accuracy.

Black_Moons
08-14-2009, 07:19 PM
sounds ok to me. One thing you might wanna think about with your tool holder design is sometimes you want to put small keyways or (BLIND) square holes into big objects, so don't let the holder get in the way too much.

I had thought about making my own shaper from scratch the other day, and my first thought was how cool all the shapers mechanisms for feed are.. and how it must be rather complex to reproduce them all, especialy with variable feed rates and such. Im a beginner machinist but an expert in electronics, so my first thought would be 'stick a UC on it, some limit switchs or somesuch, and basicly CNC the thing' for all the autofeed Y feed on end of stroke and auto Y windback/z feed on end of work zone... Well, not really CNC but more of just a dumb controller at first for seting up the shaper work area and feed/DOC and such.

Maybe if I had more pictures and understanding how a real shaper works and confidence in my machinist skills, Id be more inclined to make one more like the traditional mechanical shaper.. iv only seen a few videos of them in action but all those gears and levers and rachet mechanisms look awsome and highly functional (but complex...)

PS: you post is a little unclear, are you trying to make a shaper or a planner? afaik a shaper can do many complex tasks like internal keyway, square holes, planitary gears, etc
a planner uh, flatens things?

Bill Pace
08-14-2009, 08:00 PM
Maybe if I had more pictures and understanding how a real shaper works and confidence in my machinist skills, Id be more inclined to make one more like the traditional mechanical shaper.. iv only seen a few videos of them in action but all those gears and levers and rachet mechanisms look awsome and highly functional (but complex...)


Actually a shaper is a very 'doable' home shop project, probably the most popular being the one from Dave Gingerys plans. It was concieved by him as an aluminum casting project as part of his "Build your own workshop ...." series, however there were probably more made from plate stock than from castings. Google up "Dave Gingery shaper" there is a whole lot of stuff out there, even several you-tube videos.

And, yes, a "planer" does flat stuff....

.RC.
08-14-2009, 09:50 PM
It is hardly worth it...A planer on a 20" bed, if that...You would only be able to machine something about 10" long at the most...

Michael Moore
08-14-2009, 10:28 PM
Maybe if I had more pictures and understanding how a real shaper works

You'll find a good start at this page on my website

http://www.eurospares.com/shapers.htm

cheers,
Michael

camdigger
08-14-2009, 11:30 PM
so my first thought would be 'stick a UC on it, some limit switchs or somesuch, and basicly CNC the thing' for all the autofeed Y feed on end of stroke and auto Y windback/z feed on end of work zone... Well, not really CNC but more of just a dumb controller at first for seting up the shaper work area and feed/DOC and such.


Is you do a search on CNC shaper, you should get a hit or two from Ibewgypsie or Dave C. I recall he did some cnc mods to his shaper. I don't recall exactly what and probly wouldn't understand what was done anyway. I'd do a search, but I'm on satellite over the weekend. Probly be quicker if you did it,unless you're on dialup, then it'd be a coin toss which would be faster:rolleyes:

Weston Bye
08-15-2009, 07:27 AM
More than one article (Kozo's locomotives, for example) describe using the lathe as a shaper by turning the tool bit on its side and using the carrige crank to power the tool across the workpiece held in the stationary chuck. I attempted this, only to find out that the crank gears in my Atlas 6" were not man enough for the job. After replacement, I tried this again some years later(surely I must be smarter now than I was then) and promptly broke the gears again. For the wimpy little machines, a lever feed might be a better idea.

--Insanity involves doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.--

loose nut
08-15-2009, 07:52 PM
It is hardly worth it...A planer on a 20" bed, if that...You would only be able to machine something about 10" long at the most...


10" would be more then enough for home shop/model making.

Back in the day there where many hand operated planners that where smaller than this and much excellent work was turned out. These were used before small cheap mills where available.

Black moons, I was thinking about a planner, not that I need one but more of a "why not" project.

A planner does flat surfaces but can also do more complex shapes, dovetails and complex shapes, add one of the cheap spindles like LMS sells and you would have a Plano-miller.

Optics Curmudgeon
08-15-2009, 08:28 PM
It is hardly worth it...A planer on a 20" bed, if that...You would only be able to machine something about 10" long at the most...

A planer can true its own table, like a shaper can. A planer with a 20" table would have at least slightly more than 20" travel.

Joe (who's done time running planers)

.RC.
08-15-2009, 10:22 PM
A planer can true its own table, like a shaper can. A planer with a 20" table would have at least slightly more than 20" travel.

Joe (who's done time running planers)

Yes but a planer with a 20" table would have a 40" bed..A machine with a 20" bed would only be able to have a table half that distance.

Optics Curmudgeon
08-15-2009, 10:37 PM
Yes but a planer with a 20" table would have a 40" bed..A machine with a 20" bed would only be able to have a table half that distance.

Shhhh! The planers of the world will hear you and refuse to go their full stroke!
There's nothing unusual about a planer having a bed the same length as the table. It (the table) hangs over at the end of the stroke, no matter, since there is no cutting going on out there and even if it sagged a little no one would notice. Google around for planer images, you'll see what I mean.

Joe (remember, I've run the things)

oldtiffie
08-16-2009, 03:11 AM
And there ya go:

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=planing+machine&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=KqyHStPiJcqJkQX1n9m6Bw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=planing+machine&btnG=Search&meta=

Those pics make Optics Curmudgeon's point pretty well.

Just be sure that the end-stops and the table feed mechanisms work though as the planer I used had two inverted (male) "Vee" guides under the table and concave (female) "V"'s on the bed. They were separated by and ran on a film of pressurised lube oil. It was so smooth and well lubricated that it would over-run if you were not careful. The oil in the bed vee's had a "bow-wave" in front of it until it hit the ends where there was a drain to the lube oil sump, pumps and filters.

I think we had pressurised lube oil in the ways of the Boring Mill "X" and "Y" slides as well.

Can't remember about the Plano-Mill as it didn't get used as often as the others - can't remember why. I would imagine that it had all that was needed as it was a beautifully made German machine. We had it as "war reparation" stuff that was stripped out of Germany at the end of WW2. It still had the swastika and the German factory number on it. Some of the "Locals" were a bit upset about it but those from countries in Europe that were on the receiving end of the German effort didn't seem too worried about it as I guess they thought it was in a better place here and doing some good.

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=plano+milling+machine+images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ya-HSrfZN8qAkQXYxdm8Bw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=plano+milling+machine+images&btnG=Search&meta=