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View Full Version : Tell me about this Tray-Top Cintilathe...



Doc Nickel
08-22-2009, 11:06 PM
Virtually all the data I have is what you can see in the photos. It's listed as a "Cincinnati Lathe & Tool Co. Tray Top Engine Lathe". and says it's 3phase. From the pics it's obviously been out in the rain for a while, appears to have an L-series spindle, and what may be a Sjogren-style handwheel collet chuck laying in a puddle in the chip tray.

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop1.jpg

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop2.jpg

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop3.jpg

I may be able to get it cheap- sub $200- albeit with a 600 mile drive to go get it.

Anything you can tell me about it would be welcome. Number of speeds, probable size and swing, facts and features, whatever. It looks like it might be an L1 spindle, which would put it at what, about a 15" swing? And for the purposes of having to go and get it, about what might it weigh?

Thanks.
Doc.

gnm109
08-22-2009, 11:49 PM
I can't answer all of your specific questions but I'd like to say, that's a gorgeous machine. It looks to be nicely restoreable. If I could ever find a deal like that, I'd jump on it.

Figure at least 3,500 pounds on that baby as a rough guess.

JoeFin
08-23-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm jealous

It looks to be a very stout machine. If its any thing like their T&C Grinderss you'll find the metal of very good quality and design so simplistic its brilliant

Bguns
08-23-2009, 12:37 AM
Not going to get it cheap. I only know 4 or 5 people watching it, who will spring at least East Coast cleaned up price for it :)

And are only 300 miles away :)

If a 10 or 12 in, LOO Spindle... Kind of small hole through spindle 1 11/32...
1.5 or 2 hp, About 2450 lbs or so

miker
08-23-2009, 12:58 AM
Doc, there is some info and pictures here:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/any-amateur-guys-cincy-184662.html

Rgds

Doc Nickel
08-23-2009, 01:58 AM
Not going to get it cheap. I only know 4 or 5 people watching it, who will spring at least East Coast cleaned up price for it :)

-Yeah? But I bet they're the types that'll just take wire wheels and flap discs to the ways, then spray it with red Krylon. :D

I suppose I'm not surprised. I only spotted it because of that posting about the big lot of new-in-the-crate 7" Southbend shapers. The price was low enough to get me interested, and I figured the rained-on condition would deter all but the most determined.

While I would like a larger lathe, to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty much completely out of room. To fit even a relatively small lathe like that in the shop, I'd have to basically block off a door or rip out another section of workbench.

And looking at the listing, it's a 12" x 30", 3HP. That's not appreciably larger than either my 11"x32" 2HP Logan or 10"x36" 3HP Sheldon, so at best it'd maybe be built a bit heavier.

Maybe I'll just bid to try to drive the price up... :D

Doc.

Bguns
08-23-2009, 03:17 AM
Thats why its an Auction :)

My Grizz is bigger and only a little :) lighter... So no need here...

I do have 2 Cinci Mills tho :)

Will be a lot of last second bids, you know how often lathes come up for sale here...

clutch
08-23-2009, 05:44 AM
I repaired one of those recently. Solid looking machine.

Has a clutch brake assy so you don't have to turn the motor off when you stop the chuck.

Clutch

Black_Moons
08-23-2009, 09:10 AM
Pertty awsome looking lathe, but how on earth do you remove rust from the ways and leadscrew without removing signifigant metal from the ways? (and requireing a complete rescrape to get perfict again?)
Or does it just require a complete rescrape?

Doc Nickel
08-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Pertty awsome looking lathe, but how on earth do you remove rust from the ways and leadscrew without removing signifigant metal from the ways?

-Good question. I was figuring that, were I to get it, I'd break it down like Bill and Lane did with that Southbend. It's been out in the rain for what appears to be at least a year or two, probably more (you can see rust "streaks" starting to appear on the belt cover) so it'll need a complete refresh, and probably some bearings.

Anyway, as for things like the ways and the compound and whatnot, I figured I'd strip the rust electrolytically. I cleaned up the parts to a Rockford 'camelback' drill, that had been out in the Alaska weather since about 1995 (http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/rockford01.jpg), using that technique.

I was surprised how well it worked, and even more surprised how little pitting and metal loss there was.

http://www.docsmachine.com/projectpics/rusty11.jpg

I figured I'd strip it, stone the ways lightly, and evaluate it it from there. It will undoubtedly be less accurate than it was when new, but a relatively even metal loss all across the ways might leave it still acceptably accurate. There'll be a definite issue with getting swarf and grit in the pits, which will accellerate way wear, but that's manageable if the owner is paying attention.

Down in the states, the thing'd probably get junked. Lathes that size are a dime a dozen. Up here, they're much sought after, and as Guns notes, it'll probably sell for what you East Coasters think is an absurd price for something that's been out in the rain for a few years.

Doc.

clutch
08-23-2009, 06:23 PM
At the worst, if you are willing to take your time, you could part it out. I needed the clutch basket/input shaft for one recently when a keyway was ripped to heck.

Instead, I welded it up, cut a new key way, and bushed the driven pulley. If I could have bought the input shaft from you for 150 bucks, it would have been cost effective.

All these machines have pieces that break and getting new ones now depends on cannibalizing other machines in poor condition.

Everything inside under oil has value.

Clutch

Doc Nickel
08-23-2009, 07:31 PM
It's gonna have to be in pretty bad shape for someone up here to scrap or part out anything that could be reasonably considered "home shop" sized. (I know the local salvage place scrapped two big Kerny & Trecker style verticals, but they were way too big for a garage shop.)

Heck, a month ago I was considering salvaging this 1915 Lodge & Shipley:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/loship01.jpg

I tried contacting the owner of the property (which has been essentially abandoned for upwards of 20 years) but got no reply. Hell, I still might grab it if I can get the okay, but I've decided that even for free, it's probably more trouble than it's worth, even given the useful capacities. (18" nominal swing, said to actually clear 20", built big but not so huge I can't find a spot in the shop for it, etc.)

Doc.

Scishopguy
08-24-2009, 02:35 PM
Hmmm....Looks like the work of "DR MO" and his minions. Was this on a government liquidations site by chance? It will be a little work to clean up but should be fine. Be sure to change all fluids since she's been out in the rain.

Doc Nickel
08-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Yep. With an hour-plus to go, it's up to $480, was $170 when I first saw it. If Guns is right and there's three guys bidding, it'll end near a grand, I'll bet.

It'd have been worth it to me if I could have gotten it for close to the starting bid ($200-ish) or if it was significantly better, capacity or feature-wise, than my existing lathes (say, 15-16" swing or at least some cool threading options like a 10EE has, etc.)

Doc.

madman
08-24-2009, 04:55 PM
Reverse Dave cofer rust removal? If you dissassemblt it paint stone oil you may have a good machine assuming the bearings arent rotted out of it. I have ione and have done a LOT of machining with it and it is my Favorite lathe so far ive owned. They make good equipment cinccinatti. Thats my opinion

davidfe
08-24-2009, 05:04 PM
Virtually all the data I have is what you can see in the photos. It's listed as a "Cincinnati Lathe & Tool Co. Tray Top Engine Lathe". and says it's 3phase. From the pics it's obviously been out in the rain for a while, appears to have an L-series spindle, and what may be a Sjogren-style handwheel collet chuck laying in a puddle in the chip tray.

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop1.jpg

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop2.jpg

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/traytop3.jpg

I may be able to get it cheap- sub $200- albeit with a 600 mile drive to go get it.

Anything you can tell me about it would be welcome. Number of speeds, probable size and swing, facts and features, whatever. It looks like it might be an L1 spindle, which would put it at what, about a 15" swing? And for the purposes of having to go and get it, about what might it weigh?

Thanks.
Doc.

It went for $ 1,100. Did you win it???

Doc Nickel
08-24-2009, 05:18 PM
It went for $ 1,100. Did you win it???

-Didn't even bother bidding. My discretionary cash is stretched to the limit right now, to take advantage of a nice empty pickup truck bed that's being driven up from the States. I've been buying some heavy stuff I've been needing, but have been loathe to pay the steep shipping costs on (shaper vise, another lathe turret, some big rocks for my 2x12" pedestal grinder, etc.)

As I said, had it gone for near starting bid, I'd have probably jumped at it. Even at just $200, I'm looking at another $200 to $400 to get it shipped down to me, so I had to keep that in mind.

And again, while I'm sure it's probably built a little beefier than my Logan or Sheldon, it's really not that much bigger by way of raw capacity. Once the price went past a couple hundred or so, it became a bit silly to spend money I don't have, for a lathe I don't need, to go in a shop that has virtually no room for it. :D

Doc.

Bguns
08-24-2009, 05:35 PM
80.00 off :)

No room here either...

John Stevenson
08-24-2009, 05:44 PM
What was the story behind the crate of shapers ?
.

Bguns
08-24-2009, 06:02 PM
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=36226

Doc Nickel
08-24-2009, 09:31 PM
No room here either...

-One of your friends get it?

Doc.

JCHannum
08-24-2009, 10:17 PM
What was the story behind the crate of shapers ?
.

The shapers are in this thread;
http://www.govliquidation.com/list/c7287/lna/1.html

Bguns
08-25-2009, 08:30 AM
friends and neighbors,

No, but they were close to final amount...