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View Full Version : Divisionmaster and Vertex Rotary Table



wbleeker
08-28-2009, 03:47 AM
Over the last few weeks I have been putting together a divisionmaster and hooking it up to a 6" Vertex rotary table. All went great with the Divisionmaster, the instructions are easy to follow and the service from Lester Caine was brilliant, I originally was going to get a stepper motor locally in OZ and machine up an adaptor, but decided to just order it from Lester as the service was so quick. So I finally got it all together and working, but there seems to be a tight spot in the rotary table when the worm is engaged, or rather the tight spot seems to develop after a few turns? I have had the table apart washed all the muck out of it and put it back together and it is still doing the same thing. If I get time tomorrow I am thinking that I will pull it apart again and measure whether the worm is bolted into the centre of the underside of the table, it is almost new by the way I have had it for a while but only used it a couple of times.
Will

hardtail
08-28-2009, 03:50 AM
What was your choice of lube when after you cleaned the RT??

wbleeker
08-28-2009, 03:53 AM
I liberally squirted way oil over everything.

Black_Moons
08-28-2009, 05:40 AM
In my rotary table theres a set screw to set how tight the worm engages the main gear, and verious clutchs to allow that to move for adjustment and such.
Maybe your set screw is loose, and the clutch isent holding quite right and its sliping tighter? Does it bind rotateing in just one direction or both?

Could be a problem with the main gear itself and you just never fully manualy rotated it.

Pherdie
08-28-2009, 03:08 PM
but there seems to be a tight spot in the rotary table when the worm is engaged,

Interesting, I have the same issue with an 8" Phase II at a table reading of approximately 325 degrees. May I ask at what degree reading your Vertex encounters greater resistance?

Fred

philbur
08-28-2009, 09:15 PM
I converted a Vertex 8" RT to CNC with a 640 oz-inch stepper some 3 years ago. I think on an RT of this quality you have to expect that concentricity of the worm wheel is not going to be better than a couple of tenths. So if you adjust the worm and wheel to zero backlash at the "slack" point it is going to show some tightness at 180 degrees. So you have to adjust to zero backlash at the “tight” point and live with the backlash at the "slack" point. The other issue that doesn't get mentioned is that the worm shaft needs to be preloaded correctly, or axial movement of the shaft will show up as backlash also. The 8" Vertex has a set-up for adjusting this, although it is not mentioned in the manual. My Vertex had a ball bearing trust bearing on one end of the shaft but strangely not on the other end. Rightly or wrongly I machine the shaft and fitted a second thrust bearing. Set up correctly I now get only a few tenths of backlash measured at a 4" radius.

Phil:)

wbleeker
08-29-2009, 03:34 AM
Fred I won't get back to the job for a few days but I will have a look and see where the tight spot is, Phil I will keep your comments in mind when I time to get back to it, the 6" vertex dosen't have any thrust bearings on the wormshaft.
Will

philbur
08-29-2009, 08:45 AM
The exploded view of a 6" Vertex RT in the grizzly manual - page 13:

http://www.grizzlyimports.com/images/manuals/g1049_m.pdf

shows two spacers on the worm shaft (item 24) which I think act as trust bearings. You can also see the worm shaft preload adjustment assembly (item 7).

Phil



Phil I will keep your comments in mind when I time to get back to it, the 6" vertex dosen't have any thrust bearings on the wormshaft.
Will

wbleeker
08-30-2009, 04:54 AM
Thanks for that Phil, there must be a few variations out there, my one dosen't have the two thrust washers, and there is no room to put them in without some machining. I just noticed you are in Norway,we sailed up the inside channel to Svalbard a couple of years ago it is a beautiful country.
Will

philbur
08-30-2009, 06:18 AM
I think the main thing is that you have some means of adjusting free play on the worm shaft.

Svalbard is further north than I have ever been. Maybe one day.

Phil:)


Thanks for that Phil, there must be a few variations out there, my one dosen't have the two thrust washers, and there is no room to put them in without some machining. I just noticed you are in Norway,we sailed up the inside channel to Svalbard a couple of years ago it is a beautiful country.
Will

oldtiffie
08-30-2009, 08:44 AM
Will.

Here is the generic manual in pdf format for the "Vertex" rotary tables - from HAFCO:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/images/categories/38121.pdf

It is better than nothing - perhaps only just!!!.

I suggest you contact and/or see HAFCO and ask for a look through their detailed catalogues. They have helped me a lot. It won't matter if you are customer or not as they are very good.

It seems that you may have bought it "used" ("second-hand" or "pre-loved"???) and that the "fault" may have been there when you got it.

As previously advised, I'd adjust the mesh on the tightest part and let the rest look after itself.

It will have to be a horrendously large amount of back-lash or eccentricity for it to have a significant effect of the rotab.

It will not affect you if you are "conventional" milling. I have a slight amount of back-lash in mine and I find that if I always "come on" to a milling position by turning the hand-wheel clock-wise, it not only cancels out any back-lash but it works very well.

I do use "climb" milling at times for a better finish or to minimise tool "rubbing" and to clear swarf out of the cut. If the cut is light enough, just using your (other/left) hand - or the table clamps - as a "brake" pretty well takes care of that.

I had a look at that "Divisionmaster" on the web. It looks very impressive.

wbleeker
09-01-2009, 04:39 AM
Tiffie
I bought it new at Hafco,I will contact them for a better picture as it looks different to the Grizzly Vertex
Will

oldtiffie
09-01-2009, 06:29 AM
Will.

I have two 6" "Vertex" rotary tables. One is at home and the other that is being converted/modified as a 4th. axis for my up-coming Sieg X3 mill CNC conversion.

Both have 3 slots in the table and not 4.

The "Grizzly" 6" has 4 slots.

I've been told here several times that "Vertex" rotary tables are comparatively rare in the US as most that have the "look and feel" of a "Vertex" are in fact "Phase 11".

My guess is that there are a whole lot of generic rotary tables and manufacturers in China/Taiwan.

"Vertex", so far as I know, actually makes very little (if any) of the stuff it sells as it gets/orders it in from others and does its own quality control before "(re?)badging" it as "Vertex" before on-selling it.

The manual that I got with mine (from Hare & Forbes) is the same as the one I provided the link to.

I have a lot of "Vertex" stuff and other than having to fix a few relatively minor "nagging" problems, they have been excellent.

I haven't had the need to "open" my rotary tables, but I seem to recall that John Stevenson has used them and he said - some time ago - as I recall - that the earlier "small" (6" and less) "Vertex" rotabs had good thrust adjustment/bearing but that later ones did/do not.

The bloke who does the Sieg X3 CNC conversions only uses "Vertex" 6" rotabs for the 4th. axis as he said they are very reliable, accurate and good value for money.

I, for one, will be very interested to see just what the problem that you have turns out to be as I will certainly go looking to see if it applies to my rotabs.

wbleeker
09-02-2009, 01:55 AM
I got it all sorted out today, it just needed a bit of adjustment with the screw that controls the worm engagement depth. I fitted the stepper motor and all works well. Thanks for everyones help.
Will

oldtiffie
09-02-2009, 02:24 AM
Will.

I am happy for both of us that the "problem" with the "Vertex "6" rotab was resolved so well.

Good job.

That "Divisionmaster" is hugely impressive.

http://www.divisionmaster.com/
(click onto the "Detailed Description" and "Examples of Use" (sub) pages.

Costs (UKP) are at: http://medw.co.uk/wiki/?page=DivisionMaster

which at UKP0.52/OZ$ (ie at UKP x 2 ~ OZ$) plus the expensive UK postage is not all that bad really.

Is there any chance of some pics and a report on how it performs please?

philbur
09-02-2009, 03:51 AM
I would be interested to see your solution for mounting/attaching the stepper to the table.

Phil:)


I got it all sorted out today, it just needed a bit of adjustment with the screw that controls the worm engagement depth. I fitted the stepper motor and all works well. Thanks for everyones help.
Will

wbleeker
09-02-2009, 07:00 PM
Tiffie I will try and do the pics etc, I haven't done them before, Phil I just used the adapter from Lester Caine, I think John could probably elaborate on it.
Will

oldtiffie
09-02-2009, 07:21 PM
Thanks Will.

If you have trouble posting the pics, and if you like, you can attach them to an email to me and I will up-load them to my Photobucket account and will post them to this thread for you.

Your choice.

I'd strongly advise using Photobucket as there is a free account. I doubt that you will use the space allocated.

The process of up-loading to PB is pretty easy once you get used to it.

The instructions are in the "sticky" at the first thread on the HSM "General" listing. It may seem complicated, but its not really. It will be easy once you get used to the process.

Once your pics are on PB all you need to do to have anyone see them - say friends by email - is to include the link to the PB file to them in the email and they can down-load them at will just by clicking the link. That's quicker than sending them the link to the image as that will automatically down-load the image.

wbleeker
09-03-2009, 06:40 PM
Tiffie as you will see when I sort out the photos, my 6" Vertex has four tee slots, Last time I was at Hare and Forbes in Sydney they had Vertex branded stuff as well as Machinery House branded stuff which was a fair bit cheaper.
Will

oldtiffie
09-03-2009, 07:39 PM
Thanks Will.

Glad its all worked out OK for you.