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PTSideshow
08-29-2009, 06:55 AM
I believe it was on here that somebody was being a smart a$$, and said in one of the discussions a while back that "they will taxing us to breathe soon.

This was posted on a boiler/ full size steam engine site.

here is the part and the the link will follow:
In addition to carbon dioxide, the EPA said five other emissions are believed to cause warming when they concentrate in the atmosphere: methane, which is emitted by gassy cows as well as steam boilers; nitrous oxide, found in cooking sprays and used as anesthesia by dentists, better known as laughing gas; hydrofluorocarbons, which are used in refrigerators and aerosols; perfluorocarbons, a gas permeated by fire extinguishers, refrigerators and high end ski waxes; and sulfur hexafluoride, more commonly known for its use in circuit breakers, switchgear and other electrical equipment.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/28/hold-breath-epa-expected-declare-carbon-dioxide-pollutant/

There were some stories a couple of months ago on it, when the public comment part came out.

J Tiers
08-29-2009, 09:24 AM
it may be interesting to see how the "unintended consequences" of any legislation to limit "bad stuff" turns out........

"Interesting" can have several meanings, and time will tell which is proper.

Taxing exhalation would seem to be not in line with the founder's documents.

nheng
08-29-2009, 09:42 AM
It's become increasingly clear to me that the only time stupidity ends is when the budget runs out. Nonsense like the EPA's stand on global warming and the proposed rate schedule I saw for farm animal emissions (and a gazillion other new proposals by the gov't) will only be slowed down by public outcry ... but stopped dead in its tracks by lack of funding.

bob308
08-29-2009, 09:52 AM
i have been doing my best with the cow emission problem. but they breed faster then i can eat them.

uncle pete
08-29-2009, 10:31 AM
Bob, LOL That was a good one.

Pete

Weston Bye
08-29-2009, 10:34 AM
it may be interesting to see how the "unintended consequences" of any legislation to limit "bad stuff" turns out........

"Interesting" can have several meanings, and time will tell which is proper.

Taxing exhalation would seem to be not in line with the founder's documents.

I remember reading (no attrbution, so I can't verify) about a change in the formulation of the foam insulation on the fuel tanks of the space shuttle - made necessary by the CFC ban and other green considerations. The new formulation was said to be less durable, shedding foam on occasion.

Unintended consequences?

andy_b
08-29-2009, 12:21 PM
if CO2 is as bad as stated, then there should be a CO2 surcharge on gyms and athletic teams. they release much more CO2 than me, and the business they engage in seems to actually be geared towards emitting even more CO2. perhaps each human should be given a lifetime CO2 allowance and once reached they send you off to the soylent green tanks. if you die before using your allotment, you can sell it or leave it in your will to someone.

andy b.

JoeFin
08-29-2009, 12:24 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ide-pollutant/

If it is from Fox News it is BullSh!t

radkins
08-29-2009, 12:50 PM
If it is from Fox News it is BullSh!t


Some people are afraid of the truth!

dp
08-29-2009, 01:09 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ide-pollutant/

If it is from Fox News it is BullSh!t

It's from the EPA and it is BullSh!t.

Jim Shaper
08-29-2009, 01:34 PM
Unintended consequences you say?

Get this - I don't know why some dumbazz at the epa didn't think of it when they enacted the ban on R12...


You've got a refrigerator right? Everyone pretty much has one.

It uses R12, but R12 is bad for the ozone, so even though R12 is monumentally better at transferring energy (cooling) than anything else (which means it needs to run less to do the job), we have to get rid of it because it's bad for ozone if the R12 ever gets out (when ozone is unstable anyway and constantly breaking down without any human involvement and no one has ever proven the cfc's even make it that high into the atmosphere).

Now you take that fridge and you outlaw it, but the replacement uses R134a which is less efficient. So now, rather than only having an environmental impact on the devices failure (obviously leaking out the freon is not an intended outcome in regular service), you have a device which consumes volumes more energy over it's entire life-cycle, which I would argue has an GREATER negative impact on the environment, and also puts additional stresses on the electrical grid. Remember EVERYONE has one of these things (at least one!)...

This is the way the EPA handles problems.

I wish someone in government would use their fing heads once in a while.

aboard_epsilon
08-29-2009, 01:36 PM
i just sent this to "act on co2 uk gov site yesterday

Subject: Possibly Millions of computers running through the night.

Possibly Millions of computers running through the night.

Hello there,

Are you aware that ISP's (independent service providers..our servers)
have got this peak usage scheme.

This peak usage scheme used to start at 8pm.

So, if you wanted to download a number things through the torrent sites
..or watch on-line at the bbc.........after 8pm it would be
ok.........so you would not exceed your months peak usage quota.

Go to bed switch the comp off ..and that''s it

Right ....

Over the last couple of years they have moved the goal posts ...first to
10pm ...now to 12 pm..most isps have gone this way!!

Meaning in effect. if you want to download anything ...youve got to
leave your comp going all night...in the off-peak period

So using up to 500 watts per hour of power, all night every night..
.........max would be 4 units every night
typical would be 200 watts and 1.6 units per night.

Yes, i know you can set your comp to turn off......but most people
wouldnt............and ever since i can remember ..it doesn't always
turn off.........this a Microsoft fault on most systems

So then ..........just think ..........500 watts times 8 hours times
7 days times 52 weeks ..........times a couple of million people doing
it..........instead of switching off and going to bed like they used to
..

bet, this adds a large percentage to your co2 figures.

So, think again, long and hard ..about telling people to switch
appliances off, that are on standby .........because in my honest
opinion it pales as insignificant.... when compared with the above

Will you act on this ..

either email or phone will do

If you bother at all ..you never did last time i wrote.

i did get a reply to this ten mins ago


Thank you for your email.

Feedback like yours will help to inform further development of the
campaign.

Regards

The ACT ON CO2 Team

so hope they are listening.

all the best.....Mark Jones

Circlip
08-29-2009, 01:53 PM
Just shows how far behind the US is with respect to the Hydroflourocarbon problem, We have Fridge mountains in the UK, the refridgerant has to be extracted with specialised equipment, it's against the law to let it freely gas off from scrap units.

Also, from Sept. 1st, it will be illegal to sell, unless existing stocks, of incandescent lightbulbs, everything has to be the energy saving crap low light rubbish.

She who thinks SMBO broke the glass on one of the new ones the other day. After declaring WW3 and ushering everyone to the shelters due to the Mercury Vapour fallout, I pulled the top off the plastic shroud round the bottom.

OK., which dipstick has decided these are energy saving??

1 Printed circuit panel.
3 Transformers.
2 Power transistors.
6 Diodes.
4 Capacitors plus 1 Electrolytic.
10 ? Resistors.
Solder.

ALL of which goes in the bin when the tube is dead.

Green Planet?? Bollocks Mr. Energy Minister.

Disregards Ian. :mad:

aboard_epsilon
08-29-2009, 01:59 PM
a local chain of hardware stores sell miniature compact fluorescents for chadiliers..(Home Bargains)

have a feeling that when i take them out again ..in possibly a couple of years time ..they all will bust.

the glass is so thin ..i broke two of them just twisting them in to the bayonet holders .

all the best.markj

nheng
08-29-2009, 02:15 PM
How did we allow so many bureaucratic idiots take over our lives? CFLs are the biggest pile of rubbish to come down the pipe. In addition to high failure rates, potential fire hazards, etc., AND have you seen the prices on them lately ... check out 100W units for a sticker shock ... They are going to landfills by the millions except for areas that have "garbage police".

Joefin, Fox news is not bullsh-t. It generally covers the news without leaving out "little tidbits" that CNN or MSNBC would to either exonerate their "friends" or paint a darker picture of their "enemies". As far as Fox's non-news shows, they generally had no problem pointing out flaws or blunders in the Bush administration and do the same now for the current administration. I can't tell you how many times I listened to coverage of a news topic on which I had done some background and realized that CNN simply left out the "inconvenient truth".

My 20+ son told me that he saw nothing wrong with CNN and quote "what was my problem?". I suggested that he watch for a while and pay very close attention to the omissions using other respected sources. It opened his eyes as to how a story can be twisted to serve ones agenda while claiming to present "the news".

lazlo
08-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Some people are afraid of the truth!

This is Fox we're talking about -- you're in absolutely no danger of running across the truth.

radkins
08-29-2009, 02:34 PM
Fellows there has got to be a middle ground but it seems that most people in these types of debate are either of the opinion that everyone should ride bicycles and ban everything from fluorocarbons to cows passing gas or those who think it is all BS and we should just continue to waste our resources and pollute our environment like there is just no end to it (this is not pointing at anyone here or anything in particular anyone here has said)! Both attitudes is a bit extreme and if everyone would just look at the other's argument with an open mind I think both sides might be surprised. To argue that the oil is going to run out in 4 or 5 years and that cattle is a major cause of pollution is simply ridiculous but to argue that the Earth can just absorb all the poisons we are pouring into it is just as ridiculous. Pollution, atmospheric poisoning and global warming are facts even if we have no impact on warming and what we are doing is not causing it, the fact is no one knows for sure but if we are at fault we need to do something while we still can. One thing is for sure if our great grandfathers had of taken the environment seriously we would all be living in a much nicer cleaner world today and if we keep polluting like we are now what will our great grand children have left? Like I said there has to be a middle ground, we all should not have to ride bicycles but at the same time we should not be driving 2 ton 4X4 SUVs 50 miles to work on dry pavement with only one passenger on board! The solution would be fairly simple but it requires that both sides use a little common sense.

radkins
08-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Joefin, Fox news is not bullsh-t. It generally covers the news without leaving out "little tidbits" that CNN or MSNBC would to either exonerate their "friends" or paint a darker picture of their "enemies". As far as Fox's non-news shows, they generally had no problem pointing out flaws or blunders in the Bush administration and do the same now for the current administration. I can't tell you how many times I listened to coverage of a news topic on which I had done some background and realized that CNN simply left out the "inconvenient truth".



Exactly! CNN, CNBC and the All Barack Channel (ABC) are so lop sided in their view of the "truth" that it's almost funny. Fox tells both sides and leaves out nothing but the one's mentioned slant their reporting by leaving out pertinent facts, they do this all the time and the health care debate is a good example.


Fox is not the most watched (by a large margin) channel by accident! :)

lazlo
08-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Fox is not the most watched (by a large margin) channel by accident! :)

Fox news has high ratings because Wingers will only watch Fox News, "because all other networks are liberally biased."

Everyone else watches a well-rounded mixture of networks, so the ratings are spread.

By the way, here's a hilarious post by Dennis (DP) showing how
"Fair and UnBiased" Glenn Beck, Fox's premier commentator and the current champion of the Right Wing, really is:


[Glenn Beck] seems like a whack job to me. I wonder why anyone cares about what he says.

Then I saw this and I laughed.
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200908180010


That truly is funny Dennis!

Stewart calls out Beck on his hypocrisy about the quality of health care in America (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200908180010)


Some here may be astonished to know that Glenn Beck used to be on CNN. The story of the atrocious medical care he received, and his series of segments campaigning against "The Nightmare that is our Health Care System" were somehow forgotten when he was hired by Fox.:confused:

January, 2008
Glenn Beck (at CNN):


"I received surgery that went horribly awry."

"One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life, to receive healthcare in the United States."

"This hospital treated the President of GE, if they don't care about the President of GE, do you think that they care about schlub -- an average working stiff (like me)?"

"No matter how much the healthcare system tried to keep me down, I'm back!"

...and then, Glenn Beck ran a series entitled "Healthcare: Condition Critical"

The lead-in: "My Personal Journey through the Nightmare that is our Health Care System."

January, 2009
Glenn Beck (at Fox):


"We have the best health care in the whole world!"

How can you believe a word that comes out of this guy's mouth?? :rolleyes:

Carld
08-29-2009, 03:00 PM
There seems to be little interest in the Senate to pass the emissions bill so I would not get to lathered up over it. There has been several articles about the farm states and their reps stating it won't pass in the present form if at all.

The farmers are NOT going to pay for their cows to fart as well as any of the other ridiculous things the environmentalists want. When you can see what the other countries that have some common sense left are doing and the USA with so many in control that don't have any common sense left it starts to become obvious we are in real trouble and the farmers may be our only hope to stop the greenies.

lazlo
08-29-2009, 03:04 PM
...and here's the response from the Fox-sponsored Tea Party shills who are being instructed to crash and disrupt the Town Hall discussions of the Health Care reform, when the Republican Congressman Bob Inglis tells the crowd to settle down so they can have an intelligent discourse.

But the crown remains a bunch of animals, and Congressman Inglis tells them that perhaps they should turn off Glenn Beck for awhile, because he panders Fear, and think about these issues on their own. Bad idea :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/v/yMs47TSA0M4

lazlo
08-29-2009, 03:12 PM
The farmers are NOT going to pay for their cows to fart as well as any of the other ridiculous things the environmentalists want.

It's fun to listen to Glenn Beck getting people worked-up over the "Government wanting to tax farting cows."

Unfortunately, the reality is that livestock generate 14% of the world's greenhouse gasses, by volume, and methane is 23 times more powerful a greenhouse gas than C02.
To put that in perspective, the cows in Texas generate more greenhouse gasses than the combined output (from industry, automobiles, power generation) of Germany.

It turns out, there are simple changes you can make to livestock feed to greatly reduce methane output, but you're not interested in the actual details, are you? :rolleyes:

Carld
08-29-2009, 03:20 PM
Actually I am, but I'm not interested in taxing them just because they fart. The changes in the feed and other things is probably what will happen.

Somewhere in the middle lies reason and responsibility but not every one uses reason and few are responsible.

Paul Alciatore
08-29-2009, 03:24 PM
CO2 is a dangerous pollutant? Did they change biology? Animals inhale O2 and exhale CO2. Plants absorb CO2 and emit O2. It's a cyce that has worked for millions of years. Eliminate CO2 and there is no cycle.

No cycle: no animals. No animals, no EPA. Hummm, perhaps it could be a good thing after all. Evolution works.

What we need to do is replant the forests we are cuttiung down. Keep the balance. When making room for more people, we need to add MORE trees and vegetation to maintain the balance in the cycle, not destroy it. Perhaps we need to develop faster growing trees. Or taller trees so more plant matter will fit per acre. Redwoods come to mind. Perhaps someone could breed a pinewood: grows fast and big. Add some bear genes so it can defend itself when those idiots came around with the chain saws. And, yes we should get away from burning fossil fuels. But that is happening. We are developing solar, wind, tidal, and other forms of energy generation. We should give nuclear energy a better chance, with better controls of course. Get the idiots and BEAN COUNTING MANAGERS completely out of the control rooms. Make the people who designed them available 24/7/365 without delay. And keep the "managers" (the word and the person are both totally synonymous with idiot) away.

aboard_epsilon
08-29-2009, 03:24 PM
coal mines make a lot of methane ..

some days ..when the atmospheric pressure is low there will be periods of hours that methane would be coming out of the updraft shaft at up to 2 percent...that's not 2 percent of the global stats ...but an actual 2 percent in all air exiting the coal mine probably in excess of 50,000 cubic feet per min.

now then china has a lot of coal mines ..

blame them.

all the best.markj

Jim Shaper
08-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Collect the gas and sell it. Alternative energy: and it's already right in our back yards. (pun very well intended)

aboard_epsilon
08-29-2009, 03:39 PM
Collect the gas and sell it. Alternative energy: and it's already right in our back yards. (pun very well intended)

In the mine i worked at they did do ..

They had teams of men drilling into the coal seam underground and tapping it off

they also had a power house with huge generators that ran on the stuff, that was pumped out of the mine ..and this was put in place more than 40 years ago ..
the mine was self sufficient in electricity for a long period of time .

The methane powered generators


http://www.minersadvice.co.uk/images/wales/poa8.jpg

all the best.markj

Jim Shaper
08-29-2009, 04:15 PM
I was referring to the cow farts. You guys snuck two posts in before where mine was supposed to be placed. ;)

I like cows - they're yummy. If we can syphon their additional merits, I'm all for it.

lazlo
08-29-2009, 04:18 PM
Amusingly, one of the additives that greatly reduces methane from cows is garlic. Apparently we just need Italian cows :D

By the way, the amount of gas that cows generate is simply mind boggling -- somewhere between 50 and 130 gallons of methane/day :eek:
That's roughly equivalent to a car, and there are 1.5 billion cows on Earth...

I'd be curious to know how many cars, in operation, there are on Earth.

Carld
08-29-2009, 04:55 PM
Ya know, I used to think about the loss of trees some until I started traveling with a friend on delivery trips. Well, there are more damn trees from coast to coast than we could ever use. The whole country is covered with them. From the Atlantic coast to just about Mo. there are trees everywhere. Going west past there the trees get less and smaller. I think the tree huggers would like us to think there are no trees left but by god there are trees everywhere.

Now about corn, have you ever traveled in the states west of the Mississippi? You ought to try it sometime in the late summer. Hell, even Ohio, Indiana and Illinois is covered with corn and trees, not to mention the southern states.

In the last two years I have gone border to border east, west, north and south and the tree huggers are lying as well as those who say we need more corn.

radkins
08-29-2009, 05:13 PM
...and here's the response from the Fox-sponsored Tea Party shills who are being instructed to crash and disrupt the Town Hall discussions of the Health Care reform, when the Republican Congressman Bob Inglis tells the crowd to settle down so they can have an intelligent discourse.

But the crown remains a bunch of animals, and Congressman Inglis tells them that perhaps they should turn off Glenn Beck for awhile, because he panders Fear, and think about these issues on their own. Bad idea :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/v/yMs47TSA0M4


Fox sponsored Tea parties? Did you take the time to look at these folks? They are just everyday people dressed in everyday clothes and carrying HOMEMADE signs with each one hand painted and worded by the individual, they are not organized, do not attend organizational meetings (as evidenced by their unorganized approach and individual ways of presenting themselves). Now take a look at the liberal "opposition" which the liberal news media supports, shop printed signs sporting slogans and held by people wearing purpose designed clothing also sporting the same slogans. These are the people who are being "instructed" they are the ones who attend meetings and organizational drives and who puts up the money for those fancy printed signs and T-shirts? Get real, those people at the Tea parties are not "instructed" by anyone they don't belong to groups they are simply friends and neighbors who are getting fed up with reckless spending and the potentiality higher taxes it is likely to bring.

Jim Shaper
08-29-2009, 05:35 PM
I think those opposed to CO2 emissions should stop breathing (I mean that!).

I bet none of them has calculated how much CO2 they exhale, multiply it by their lifetimes, the amount of energy supporting their pitiful lives consumes (electric, food, transportation, all the commodities they consume, etc) - by taking these idiots out of existence, they could do a great public service to the rest of us. Mainly by reducing noise pollution. :D

These people all drive cars (a prius has a monumentally larger environmental impact than walking), live in houses (a tent wouldn't cost nearly as many trees lives, and could be recycled rather than filling a landfill when needing remodeling), they all use electricity (causing the need for more manufacturing pollution even with renewable resources like solar or wind), and they're all hypocrites.

When you become an activist, you really need to examine yourself. You can't tell me what to do when you won't live it. Kinda like Teddy - his wealth could've paid for health care for thousands of people, yet he never spent a dime on other people out of his own wallet. Don't let the casket hit ya in the azz.

lazlo
08-29-2009, 06:29 PM
Fox sponsored Tea parties? Did you take the time to look at these folks?

Yes, they're all the same demographic.

Fox/The Tea Party are passing out flyers with instructions on how to disrupt the town halls, what signs to make, what sections of the healthcare bill to quote. That's why the rabble can't answer followup questions -- they have no idea what they're talking about.

So one reprentative was famously interrupted with a woman screaming "WHAT ABOUT TORT REFORM?!" (because the Tea Party flyer lists that as one of the disruptive questions to throw out).

The senator calmly asked: "What is your concern about Tort reform?"

The woman looked at him blankly, there was a long, awkward pause, and then she replied "I want my Country back!"

Flyer from The Tea Party:

Disrupting the Town Halls: Best Practices: (http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/townhallactionmemo.pdf)

– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”

– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

dp
08-29-2009, 07:21 PM
Yes, they're all the same demographic.


It's getting scary out there, and I'm not just talking about death panels or whatever they are.

I'm talking about the civility that is the essence of democracy.

Liberals and conservatives have been busing people to each other's events since I started working in politics. They've been hiring professionals to promote "grassroots" involvement since long before the Internet made it easier. Are the protests at staged events staged? Maybe. Who cares?

Nancy Pelosi was plainly wrong to attack the protestors as "un-American." The White House strategy of dismissing them has long since been proved unwise.

But that's no excuse for turning civil discourse into something ugly.

Susan Estrich - famous liberal

J. Randall
08-29-2009, 07:50 PM
Lazlo, I looked at your Fox PDF, I have to admit I just scanned it, but I could not find the Fox name attached to it anywhere. Are you sure you were not the one that added Fox to it?
I am curious about your cow diet numbers also. All cattle do not eat the same diet, are you talking beef cattle, dairy cattle, feeders that are being fattened for market, free range cattle? I would bet that if the research was done accurately those methane numbers are not even close over the whole range.
I am not a Glen Beck fan, but I do watch him some just because he digs up info and puts it out there for me to decide about. I watch the other channels also that are available on my little cable network, CNN is one of them. I am not a lib or a conservative, and have always register independent. I will say that the media as a whole is liberal, and most of them do not even do investigative reporting anymore. If you want to know what is really happening right now, and refuse to give Fox any credibility, you have your head in the sand.
James

radkins
08-29-2009, 08:10 PM
What he has posted there looks like some of the things found on a couple of the liberal web sites. :rolleyes: Like I said earlier look at which side is using home made signs and how many in the crowd even have signs, look at how they are dressed these are just concerned citizens who have gotten out to be heard. The "other side" is the people who have been coached and are being prompted by liberal organizations, look at them who is paying for those flashy T-shirts with the slogans? These look almost like uniforms and who has the print shop signs and who pays for it all? Nope the people, for the most part, who are at those town hall meeting are just concerned citizens. And if you believe that Fox news is passing out pamphlets on how to cause a commotion at a meeting then there is no hope for you, if Fox, or CNN or any other news source, did that they would be burned by the opposing media and public officials alike.

lazlo
08-29-2009, 08:10 PM
Lazlo, I looked at your Fox PDF, I have to admit I just scanned it, but I could not find the Fox name attached to it anywhere. Are you sure you were not the one that added Fox to it?

Yes, quite sure :)

Fox News advertising the original April 15 "Fox News Channel Tea Parties"

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/video/2009/04/09/cavuto-20090409-beck.jpg

If you watch Fox, you've noticed that there's been a flurry of promotional coverage of "The Tea Party Express" promotional tour on Fox News, Fox Business, The Fox Nation, and FoxNews.com.

In fact, Fox is making a huge deal that Sean Hannity will be on the Tea Party Buses (as he was for the April 15 Tea Parties):

Fox Nation asks: "Will you join the Tea Party Express?"

http://www.youtube.com/v/FglAFOF1inI&hl=en&fs=1&

Fox & Friends tells viewers "how you can join" Tea Party Express.

"Fox & Friends hosts Tea Party Express organizer and OCDB vice chairman Mark Williams" [who has repeatedly stated that Obama lacks a valid birth certificate and has compared "Obama's death panels" to Nazi experiments]
"Fox News helped viewers find out "how you can join" the tour!"

Fox News anchor Bream: "We want to let folks know" Tea Party schedule so "they can be a part" of events. The August 23 edition of Fox News' America's News HQ hosted Williams to promote the tour.

'[B]Hannity' Hops the Tea Party Express!" In an August 27 post on Sean Hannity's FoxNews.com blog, a producer wrote that Hannity "will be along for the ride!" adding: "Click here for more on the tour and to find the tea party nearest you.":

"Starting tomorrow, the Tea Party Express will begin its 16-day, 35-city tour across the nation, rallying Americans to stand up against out-of-control government spending... and 'Hannity' will be along for the ride!

With video camera in hand, [Fox's] our own Griff Jenkins will be catching all the action on the road and filing reports for The Great American Blog as the Express makes its way from Sacramento, CA to the Taxpayer March on Washington, D.C. Sept. 12!

Click here for more on the tour and to find the tea party nearest you.

gregl
08-29-2009, 08:15 PM
Something many folks fail to do when a controversy erupts is to go back to the original source to see what was said. Here is the EPA Web site that discusses human-related sources of CO2:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/emissions/co2_human.html

And here is the overview page that states that: "In 2005, global atmospheric concentrations of CO2 were 35% higher than they were before the Industrial Revolution."

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/emissions/co2.html

And here is a page with a complete breakdown:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/recentac.html

For those of you who might be tempted to assign the data to some liberal agenda, it is worth noting that the measurements date from 2005, during the Bush administration.

gnm109
08-29-2009, 08:17 PM
This is Fox we're talking about -- you're in absolutely no danger of running across the truth.

Yes, you can watch MSBS instead and listen to the people there talk about how bad Fox is. On MSBS you can tell when they are lying. Their lips are moving.