Any tips on Welding culverts?

[Errol]

Does any one have tips on welding culverts? Every time this job comes up, I get a bad feeling because I know I'm going to have trouble and this time was no exception.

First I get the two culverts close together and tack them as best as I can. This photo shows my typical job, an old recycled culvert being attached to a new one. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3876.jpgThe next step is take a 6lb hammer and hammer around the lip till there's as little gap as possible. Then I get out the 7014 and try to weld as best as I can, and here you can see my problem. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3880.jpg it seems as though as the galvanized material gets heated up, it jumps into the puddle and forms some type of exothermic reaction, so in a blink of an eye, whoa! way too much heat, but by then it's blown through. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3879.jpg

Can anyone offer tips or tricks on how you handle welding this thin galvanized material? In these photos I'm running straight polarity 50 amp with 3/32 7014. I've tried 6013 and even 6011 and then tried the wire feed welder, but no success.

[radkins]

Does any one have tips on welding culverts?


Yes, get a darn GOOD welding fume respirator and if possible a fan to blow away those highly toxic fumes! Welding on galvanized pipe like that can kill you!


As far as the actual welding you need to grind off the galvanizing material in the area you plan to weld. The 7014 is a decent choice and 3/32" is a good size so you should be alright there but you really should try to grind the area back from the weld to prevent contamination from the Zinc coating. Also go all the way around and tack about every couple of inches or so before you try to weld it solid. With it tacked closely like that you can then lightly tap the edges together between the tacks and eliminate all the gap.

[Willy]

Errol you're probably not going to want to hear this but in my experience in installing an awful lot of culverts it's just way more efficient to use a collar when you want to join two or add an extension.

In addition to being a pain in the ass to grind the convoluted profile of a culvert in order to remove the galvanized plating, there is also the issue of trying not to breath the toxic fumes from the stuff you missed. You already know some of the other issues.

Trust me I've done a heap of culvert maintenance and installs, you're time and frustration level will go way down with a collar.

[camdigger]

Errol you're probably not going to want to hear this but in my experience in installing an awful lot of culverts it's just way more efficient to use a collar when you want to join two or add an extension.

Trust me I've done a heap of culvert maintenance and installs, you're time and frustration level will go way down with a collar.

X2... with the addition of one of the newer cordless impact drivers and a deep socket, installing the coupling bolts is less painful now too.:)

[radkins]

You guys have it right for a fact and that's definitely the better way to go with this thing! I just figured that since he had already started welding it and asked how to weld it successfully a couple of suggestions might help but obviously I left out the best one! :)

[recoilless]

I agree w/ willy above. In the first photo, you see the culvert on the left has a "re-rolled" end that is the grooves run concentrically rather than the helix on the rest of culvert. This is where the coupling gets "snugged down."
The end of pipe on right in same photo is a cut piece. The couplings or bands are always what are specified on the installs we do(INDOT, county, etc). Not saying never, but I have yet to see a spec calling out welding as method of connection. Perhaps your application is different than the norm.

[Bob Ford]

If you must weld that thin stuff. Set your welder hot about 75 amps maybe more with 7014. Then remember HOT, FAST , CLOSE. Strike a rod and move quickly stringers only. If you hesitate or draw a long ark you will burn through.

Welding electrical boxes to steel studs and even hat channel I used AC set at 90 amps 3/32 #6011. These welds were for the State of California on a Hospital. Only weld if you are up wind. Preferable with a large fan.

Bob

[Carm]

Use a bigger rod, at least 1/8", better 5/32". More heat, 6010 or 6011, straight polarity. Technique much as Bob Ford says. In your other hand, a bare rod used to chill the arc and fill gaps "poor man's TIG".

[torker]

I weld lots of galvanized stuff.
#1....CLEAN SHAVEN and I wear a good welding respirator with fresh cartridges. Keep face out of the smoke!!!!!! I swear that crap can get into your blood thru your skin or eyes or something.
I also prefer to weld outside in a light breeze if I can.
I prefer to weld it with dual shield .045 wire turned up HOT....and just burp the trigger (for thin stuff). This produces the nicest welds for stuff like that.
I don't bother to grind the coating off anymore.....the weld will suck it up from underneath anyway. Having the welder turned way up will fry thru it in a heartbeat and if you keep the metal red while you weld...and keep shooting just back from the keyhole...it makes for as pretty a weld as you'll get with galvanized.
My second choice is 3/32 6010 DC+ @ 70 (ish) amps. It ends up doing a nicer job than any of the 70 series rods because it'll burn thru the crap. On the thin stuff I just whip the rod back further....build up a thicker bead and ride the top of that bead for the whole weld. Again...I don't bother grinding the coating off....wastes too much time.
Russ

[Errol]

Ya, Willy, I would have used a collar if I had one. But being the cheap skate that I am, I mostly weld them together. With it being such a smelly awful job, I thought to pick your brains collectively and save myself a lot of frustration in experimentation time, and hopefully learn something.

By the way, I weld outdoors and try to stay up-wind.

Already I've learned a lot. Never thought to use higher current and go faster like Torker, and Bob Ford suggest. And Carm's poor man's tig is something that I'll definitely try next time.

I tried the wire feed, but used low of heat settings. So as Torker suggests, I'll try hot next time and burp, the technique of which I'm familiar. I like 6010 too, just never really gave it a chance either, going too cold once again.

Nice thing about welding culverts is that messy welding will be burried and out of sight for a long time. I don't need it to look pretty, but would make me feel a lot better if it did. The dirt will eventually settle in around it and hold 'er all together anyhow!

[Bob Ford]

Errol

In welding thin galvanized sections Arc force and Gravity can be your friend or enemy.
These are listed in order of the best first.
1. Vertical down; Arc force is your friend. Gravity is not your enemy. With the arc force you can hold up the molten puddle until it sets.

2. Overhead; Arc force is your friend. Gravity is not friendly. If careful arc force will keep the puddle up long enough to set. Must travel fast.

3. Flat; Arc force is your enemy. Gravity is your enemy. Arc force is helping gravity to destroy your weld.

4. Vertical up; Arc force is your enemy. Gravity is your enemy. The only way I have been successful is to quickly dip in and out of the puddle.

Rod angle and arc length.
Short arc puts less heat in weld area. Long arc puts more heat in weld area and is harder to control.

1. Vertical down; Rod angle from 60° to 90° below horizontal.

2. Overhead; Rod angle close to 80° to 90° from horizontal.

3. Flat; Rod angle about 30° above horizontal.

4. Vertical up; Rod angle 70° to 90° below horizontal fast whip and luck.

Given a choice I would use #6010 or #6011 3/32. This rod is .0935 and your metal is probably .040.

Bob

[Errol]

Bob, an excellent summary of rod angles. I'm guessing from your summary that you prefer vertical down in welding this type of thin material so that arc force is your friend and gravity is not your enemy. I was rotating the pipe to use the flat position.

Ya, you definitely have intuition. Rod angle is one of the first things that slips from my mind when my puddle goes awry.... then my first reaction is to instantly yank the rod away to prevent more damage, when I should have perhaps quickly lowered my hand to use that friendly "arc force" to hold the puddle in there a little bit longer.

Oh, I measured the thickness of the culvert, it is .050

[Bob Ford]

For the effect of arc force think of a high pressure hose's action on dirt. You can use it to help or make a big mess. Use arc force to push or hold the weld metal. The #6010 or #6011 are a quick freeze rod with good penetration. Use rod angle to limit penetration and position to help defeat gravity. What you are trying to do is put 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lb bag. Makes life interesting, but once learned it is very useful at times. A lot of people will not attempt a second time.

On thicker metal use rod angle to get penetration and gravity to help fill your weld.

Bob

[creativeitsnot]

Does any one have tips on welding culverts? Every time this job comes up, I get a bad feeling because I know I'm going to have trouble and this time was no exception.

First I get the two culverts close together and tack them as best as I can. This photo shows my typical job, an old recycled culvert being attached to a new one. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3876.jpgThe next step is take a 6lb hammer and hammer around the lip till there's as little gap as possible. Then I get out the 7014 and try to weld as best as I can, and here you can see my problem. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3880.jpg it seems as though as the galvanized material gets heated up, it jumps into the puddle and forms some type of exothermic reaction, so in a blink of an eye, whoa! way too much heat, but by then it's blown through. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/RedEyes/IMG_3879.jpg

Can anyone offer tips or tricks on how you handle welding this thin galvanized material? In these photos I'm running straight polarity 50 amp with 3/32 7014. I've tried 6013 and even 6011 and then tried the wire feed welder, but no success.
if you have access to an oxy-acetelene rig you can burn off the galvanized layer which will stop the popping and drop outs. that is usually about all it takes. you can also use a grinder but the torch is usually quicker and most of the time will burn off both sides at one time.

[digger_doug]

Errol,
the welds don't look too bad.

They don't have to be watertight, pressure rated.

I call it "able to hold baled hay tight".

I ussually weld angle pieces (about 6" long)
of whatever i've got laying around.
I weld these long ways 3-4 around the outside
evenly spaced, crossing the joint.
then slide the other pipe in and tak.
This is to keep the pipe pieces inline.

Cover the joint (when in the hole) with a shingle
or a old truck mudflap, to keep dirt from flowing
down in.

If the hole is on the bottom, well, we've got
hard clay around here, so erosion doesn't seem to
be a problem, area may require something better.

[Errol]

Digger, that's a good idea that I hadn't thought of.

A couple of years ago, I had to install a culvert extension on an existing 16" culvert, & no portable welder at the time, nor a spare connecting collar.

I lined up the new piece as best as I could and then flopped some old corrigated metal roofing over the joint, and backfilled.

[Errol]

Oops! somehow that last one "self" posted...

Continuing... since then, that job bothered me, for reasons of like you said, potential erosion and lack of strength so since then I try to weld them if I can.

With all of the new suggestions on this thread, my next culvert welding job will almost be fun!

[digger_doug]

With all of the new suggestions on this thread, my next culvert welding job will almost be fun!

Welding galvanized FUN ?

Any other "hobbies" you want to confess to ?

Seriously, I don't like the thin metal culverts, so have been piecing
together pieces of scrap regular pipe, mostly sch 40,
if I have it.

It doesn't need to be galvanized, it is thick enough to outlast me.

[Arcane]

Highpower posted this link in the General Forum. Check out what they have to say about E71T-14 wire.

FCAW = Flux-Cored Arc Welding.

A few (not all) of these smaller machines do have the capacity for adding a shielding gas to them.
And then there is.... Flux-cored arc welding gas-shielded! (FCAW-G)
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/fcwawire.asp

:D

[Errol]

Arcane, thank you for that. I've never tried any flux cored wire, but after reading the applications, I'll be picking up a roll of E71T-14.

I see they have many other types of wires as well. Does anyone know how their numbers work as to position, ie flat, vertical, out of position capabilities?

My culvert projects are done now, My next project is a cattle guard (Texas Gate) in about two weeks time after my steel gets delivered.

[radkins]

There are a lot of different kinds of gas-shielded flux cored (duel-shield as it's known in the trade) wires out there and some are a lot better for what you are trying to do. Probably the best duel-shield wire I have ever used is Hobart ExcellArc 71 and in .035 (it is available all the way up to 3/32") it should work like a dream on that culvert. ExcellArc 71 will bridge a gad better than ANYTHING I have ever used and it is about the best out-of-position wire you are likely to find, even for over-head welding. These duel-shield wires do however all have one thing in common, they usually aren't worth crap outdoors if there is the slightest breeze blowing! If you intend to use any gas shielded wire outdoors you need to rig up some sort of draft block unless the air is really, REALLY still, the duel shield is every bit as bad as solid in this respect.