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View Full Version : Lubrication on 10L SBL



kenmitch
03-21-2002, 09:16 AM
Hello all,
I recently purchased a 10" South Bend lathe and I need some recommendation on what type of oil to use to lube the spindle bearings. A few guys recommend synthetic but not specific brand or weight. Also does anyone have any thoughts on where to buy lubricants?Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Ken

halfnut
03-21-2002, 10:04 AM
I know what I would use, universal transmission hydralic oil from the farm supply store. Has good film strenth, lubricity, cheap, readily available, and it doubles as heat treat oil due to it's high flash point. About 10w.

Comes in gallons, 2gals, 5gal buckets, and 55 gal drums.

This is the stuff they use in farm tractor rear ends which is also the hydralic system reservoir. Good stuff.

Thrud
03-22-2002, 02:49 AM
Ken
If your lathe has a gear box get an "R & O Gear & Bearing Lubricant". You can buy this from any major oil company. Use Hydraulic only as a last resort - it will work, but the R & O is designed for it. You will need an ISO68 viscosity (20W).

What you buy - mineral or synthetic - is up to you. Synthetic is my personal first choice (protect the environment).

Dave



[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 03-22-2002).]

SGW
03-22-2002, 05:31 AM
If it has bronze spindle bearings, you should use lightweight spindle oil, available from MSC ( www.mscdirect.com (http://www.mscdirect.com) ). It's about 6 or 7w, I think. South Bend specifies oil with a viscosity of 100 Saybolt for for 10K bearings, and I assume the 10L is the same.

DO NOT! use automobile engine oil!!!!

Halfnut's idea about the hydraulic oil is pretty good and it would probably do okay as a substitute, but just send to MSC and get the real stuff. I think a gallon (smallest size) is about 12 bucks and it ought to last you for about 10 lifetimes.


[This message has been edited by SGW (edited 03-22-2002).]

halfnut
03-22-2002, 10:01 AM
I'm learning about this here oil thing listening to you fellers.

Used to run an old South Bend, had the bronze bearing boxes, later ones use cast iron. Old man I worked for used 10w non detergent Pennsoil in this machine. He had this oil he was right proud of, Cream Seperator Oil, our hardware store had some old stock, he used this oil in his surface grinder, claimed it was the proper stuff.

I have one plain bearing machine which I have used in my shop. It's an old New Haven I believe, was using any old motor oil until I ran out one day. The day I ran out I was running this old machine hard, probably a whole 250rpm, back bearing getting tight, this is also the endplay adjuster end. No oil to be found except this jug of hydralic oil. Oils oil so in the oil cups it went, spindle never even acted like it was getting tight after that.

Needless to say I'm sold on hydralic-transmission oil, use it for everything, almost.

I've done some web searches for oil, keep coming up with dealers, drilling companies, everything but what I want to know.

Anyone know of a web site that has basic information on lubricants.

halfnut
03-22-2002, 10:40 AM
I'm back from some web searching. Read some manufacturers and distributors info on R & O oils, they mostly say that if you need more wear resistance go with their hy-tran fluids.

Yes Thrud, that Amsoil R & O is probably good stuff.

Still would like to find oil info from someone who's not trying to sell it.

kenmitch
03-22-2002, 11:55 AM
Thanks to all who have replied.

I sent an email to Tony Griffiths of lathes.co.uk concerning the use of synthetics, his reply:
"I have used Mobil 1 in several machines and it seems to work perfectly. One plain bearing machine showed a temperature reduction of 5 degrees C running at top speed. If it will stand 800 bhp from an F1 engine it should be OK for lesser duties.
Left standing in bearings for long periods it appears not to stain the metals - nor, so far as can be seen by casual observation, eat into them; the latter being a problem with previous mineral-based and additive-rich motor oils"

now the questions I have:

will the Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Formula 5W-30 meet the viscosity requirements (sus 100 @ 100`F) for the spindle bearings ????

will the synthetic mix with the current mineral base oil? or will I have to dissasemble the headstock bearings and replace the wick?
Thanks
Ken

Herb W
03-22-2002, 12:11 PM
Halfnut

I to have looked for but not found much unbiased info re lubricants on the web.

Seems there really isn't any independent testing done - guess the oil companies want it that way!

If you do find anything interesting, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Herb

SGW
03-22-2002, 05:08 PM
There are a couple of problems with using engine oil.

One (if it's a detergent oil), it's designed to hold any dirt in suspension so the filter can take it out. Machine bearings don't have filters :-) so you need a non-detergent oil so any dirt falls out.

Two, engine oil is designed to emulsify water so it will circulate with the oil and eventually boil off when the oil gets hot enough. Machine bearings never get anywhere near hot enough (one hopes!) for that to happen, so you want an oil designed to precipitate out any water so it doesn't rust the bearings and/or shaft.

In fact, hydraulic oil is pretty close to this, and Halfnut's Hy-tran fluid is a good approximation to "machine oil." The main thing there is to get the correct viscosity.

Thrud
03-23-2002, 01:49 AM
halfnut:
It is very hard to squeeze information from a stone - call Mobil and they will just tell you to "trust them". Can't squeeze blood from a stone. There are some books on Tribology (the study of lubrication and friction) available from www.asminternational.org (http://www.asminternational.org) but they are very expensive.

As I said, you can use an Anti-wear Hydraulic (Tractor Hydraulic can also be used) fluid if you cannot find a good R & O Gear & Bearing, but the R & O has the proper extreme pressure additives the gears requires while protecting the bearings and any yellow metal parts in the gear box. Hydraulic fluid should be your second choice.

JCHannum
03-23-2002, 07:04 AM
One of my favorite reference books is the McMaster Carr catalogue.

They list Multipurpose Machine Oil as a high grade, non detergent oil for a wide variety of applications; circulating systems, light hydraulic systems, recip air compressors, industrial gear sets, & other general purpose lubrication. Formulated to resist rust, oxidation and foaming.

ISO Grade 46 = Sae #10 = SUS @ 100*F 215 $7.49 a gallon.

Much other information about oils and types on this page. You can call, and they will FAX additional info as well.

halfnut
03-23-2002, 12:23 PM
Thrud, thanks for that $2.00 word "Tribology", I'll have to do a search on that one.

The Hy-Tran, Hy-Guard, or plain universal hydralic transmission oil does have the high pressure additives in it. My first main town job was at a John Deere dealership, this stuff is used in tractor rear ends, lots of gears and bearings, brass and bronze parts also. The hyralic system uses the housing as a reservoir also, same fluid flows through everything.

I would be a bit leary of John Deere's fluid, can't remember whether it's Hy Guard or HyTran name, one is the IHC name. John Deere's fluid has what they call a friction modifier for the brakes. The cheap generic stuff I buy at the farm store seems to have very good lubricating qualities.

Bit of trivial info, we got a batch of Yale electric forklifts in plant when I was forklift mechanicing. Book on them called for 10w non detergent motor oil in hydralic system. Since there was no hot mechanicals, the higher flash point hydralic oil wasn't necessary, best reasoning I can come up with. We used hydralic oil anyway.

We use a lot of Mobil DTE oils at plant of different grades or viscosities. What is this stuff.

Tribology, right.

halfnut
03-23-2002, 12:25 PM
Thrud, thanks for that $2.00 word "Tribology", I'll have to do a search on that one.

The Hy-Tran, Hy-Guard, or plain universal hydralic transmission oil does have the high pressure additives in it. My first main town job was at a John Deere dealership, this stuff is used in tractor rear ends, lots of gears and bearings, brass and bronze parts also. The hyralic system uses the housing as a reservoir also, same fluid flows through everything.

I would be a bit leary of John Deere's fluid, can't remember whether it's Hy Guard or HyTran name, one is the IHC name. John Deere's fluid has what they call a friction modifier for the brakes. The cheap generic stuff I buy at the farm store seems to have very good lubricating qualities.

Bit of trivial info, we got a batch of Yale electric forklifts in plant when I was forklift mechanicing. Book on them called for 10w non detergent motor oil in hydralic system. Since there was no hot mechanicals, the higher flash point hydralic oil wasn't necessary, best reasoning I can come up with. We used hydralic oil anyway.

We use a lot of Mobil DTE oils at plant of different grades or viscosities. What is this stuff.

Tribology, right.

Thrud
03-24-2002, 11:32 PM
halfnut:
Oh, how I fondly remember the wet clutch in Tractor Hydraulics - hard to burn them up! Never sold a single wet clutch when I was a partsman - lots of hydraulic pumps and spool valves though...

Dave

LTC Steve
03-26-2002, 03:50 PM
There seems to be a lot of hand wringing over toolroom machinery lubrication on this site. First of all I would not even be discussing using engine oil, since were lubricating lathes not 5.0's. Buy the proper oil, in these smaller machine uses you won't be buying often.

Somebody mentioned Mobil DTE, which I used to see used an awful lot when I worked in some pretty high class toolrooms. I believe its in the same category as R & O. Its used to lubricate gears, bearings both plain and ball, and had a lot of metal protecting type additives. DTE medium was put in all lathe gear boxes and aprons. DTE light was put specifically in all hydraulically shifted headstocks like on a LeBlond, Monarch, or Cincinatti lathe that had this system. And boy were these sweet machines. In these smaller lathes that we are discussing either one would be great. Then just lubricate the ways and lead screw bearings with some light way oil or spindle oil and you will have one little happy 10 in. lathe.
-Steve

S.C.Rebel
09-25-2003, 12:55 AM
Howdy! I was recently given a South Bend Heavy 10" lathe from where I used to work.
I know for sure that the only oil they ever lubed it with was spindle oil,and every thing that had oil cups or plugs got plenty of oil.
my question is . Is Spindle oil fine for the entire lathe?, or should I be using different oils for different Parts?
The lathe was bought brand new in "52"

Thrud
09-25-2003, 01:11 AM
S.C.Rebel:
Use way oil on the ways (Vactra, etc.) I use Amsoils WLJ (ISO68) - unfortunately they only sell it in 5 Gallon pails, but it is about the same price as Vactra.

Paul Alciatore
09-25-2003, 02:43 AM
McMaster-Carr sells way oil in one gallon size. I bought one recently. It wasn't any brand name I was aware of but it seems to do a good job.

S.C.Rebel
09-26-2003, 12:38 AM
Thanks Y'all, and I do believe I have a new McMaster carr wearhouse here in medford I'll go and check it out.
By the way excellent website!