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Doc Nickel
09-26-2009, 11:06 PM
I was rudely awoken at the ungodly hour of 9:00am this morning, and informed that the local Borough auction had some goodies I might be interested in. And there were, indeed, a few goodies- a giant Rockwell bandsaw (think Do-All) with built-in band welder (went for $550) a couple of small drill presses that went cheap, but both needed work, a monster planer, a jointer, that sort of thing.

After wandering for several minutes, I found lots I might want, little I needed, and even less I figured I could afford. Then, back in a corner, I found this:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder1.jpg

Which even included this vacuum/coolant module:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder2.jpg

I've been wanting a surface grinder for a while, but they're rare as hen's teeth up here. This is only about the fourth one I've seen for sale in about three years of looking.

But, you sharp-eyed types might notice what I noticed- those strips in the tray are the bearings the table is supposed to ride on. Why are they there? Who knows. Are the ways damaged? Who knows. Did I buy a pig in a poke? Who knows.

I bought it anyway. $400 all up. Too much? Maybe. I hope not, of course, but I figure worst comes to worst, the 6x18" permanent mag chuck (which works) might be worth a hundred to two, the motor and spindle might be worth something, the coolant tank could be adapted to nearly anything, etc.

Naturally I hope it doesn't come down to parting it out, but I figured at worst, I wouldn't take too horrible a soaking.

Now, dare I ask, can anyone tell me about Republic-Lagun? All three motors (all 3Ph) have "Made in the USA" tags, but the grinder chassis says "Made in Spain". I'm vaguely familiar with Lagun, and I see that they're still in business, but I also imagine this particular machine probably dates back to the eighties. (I haven't found a date or model number tag yet.)

Was it a good machine, a so-so machine, a merely adequate machine...? Not that I'm going to need to split tenths, I'm more just curious if there's any "known issues" with this brand or model.

Does Lagun still carry parts? More importantly, would they still have wheel hubs- and on that same note, would this model use a hopefully-common hub similar or identical to some other brand?

Doc.

websterz
09-26-2009, 11:14 PM
The table runs on bearings? hmmm...never heard of such a thing. My old 1951 model G&L just runs on the ways. :confused:

tdmidget
09-26-2009, 11:20 PM
yep. he's got a ballway machine. Not sure I'd have paid that for it in that condition but he has seen it, we haven't. I would clean it immaculately and assemble it if the parts look OK. Then you can tell what you have. It may just be dirty , it may need work. Go from there.

wierdscience
09-26-2009, 11:28 PM
Lagun handles some good stuff,call it up-market import.

Ball ways are fairly common,the balls and cages are probably out because somebody tried to lift the machine by the table.The ways should be hardened tool steel and replaceable.

It could have gear rack feed or cable feed,or friction feed,regardless of which type gravity is what holds the tables on.

Wheel arbors should be standard fare,try the usual suspects,KBC,MSC,Ebay.Machinery's should have the dope on what size taper it has.

It still has the wheel dresser,or at least most of it,so that is a plus.

The coolant setup is real nice,that one vacuums up the mist and reuses it.I am jealous of that feature.

JoeFin
09-26-2009, 11:32 PM
The Wheel Hubs will be 1 of the 2 standards most likely.

As for the Ball Bearings and their holders - Sorry Doc, looks like they have gone to the Big Surface Grinder in the Sky.

Was wondering who the Chinese were knocking off when they built the Kent Surface Grinder. Where is the hydralic switch supposed to mount also? Should be right there in front of the table

Glenn Wegman
09-26-2009, 11:43 PM
Adapters should be here for sure!

http://www.wmsopko.com/adapters.htm

Doc Nickel
09-26-2009, 11:47 PM
Ball ways are fairly common,the balls and cages are probably out because somebody tried to lift the machine by the table.The ways should be hardened tool steel and replaceable.

-I'm hoping you're right, that it was just a table-lift SNAFU. The 'replaceable' part sounds nice, if true, though I'd wager the replacements will cost twice what I paid- if I'm lucky. :D


It still has the wheel dresser,or at least most of it,so that is a plus.

-Which doesn't move, I don't know why.


The coolant setup is real nice,that one vacuums up the mist and reuses it.I am jealous of that feature.

-That was one of the things that sold me on it. I already have entirely too many grinders spewing grit into the air, and while the machine room is reasonably separated from the main shop where the welding and grinding takes place, I still worry about gunk in the air.

Only one other surface grinder I've seen had coolant, and it had a vacuum as well. (Though I don't know if you could run both, as this one appears to do. It was set up when I saw it, for vac only.)

If this setup will let me use it without filling the air with grit or mist or both, it'll be worth it.


As for the Ball Bearings and their holders - Sorry Doc, looks like they have gone to the Big Surface Grinder in the Sky.

-Not that I disagree, but why do you say that? The strips and balls are dirty, but not rusty- as above, I suspect they were popped loose when they tried to move it specifically for this auction. Assuming they haven't rusted (and I know it won't take much) is there any reason I can't just wash them off (clean solvent) wash off the ways, re-lube everything and set it all back together?

I mean, I know a lot of surface grinders are picky, and it takes a near-perfect setup to split tenths reliably, but is there another reason they shouldn't or couldn't be reused?

Doc.

wierdscience
09-26-2009, 11:58 PM
Doc,others here may disagree(nah,not here),but I view coolant as an absolute necessity on a surface grinder.Workpiece heating is the enemy of precision grinding.

The last vaccum I saw apart it was just a centrifugal fan.It sucked up the mist and slung it onto the sides of the fan scroll after which it ran down into the reservior to start all over.Very handy feature,eliminates fog in the shop:)

The ball cages can most likely be reused and the balls can be replaced cheaply with some common as dirt grade 25 bearing balls.

Things being stuck on grinders is common,grit gets in the nooks and crannys and then dries into concrete like formations.

oldtiffie
09-27-2009, 12:31 AM
Doc,

I generally agree with the others so far.

Its unlikely that the ball "ways" will be worn to the extent that they will have too much of an affect on accuracy after you take a "true-ing" cut over the magnetic chuck after it is re-assembled.

The ball "ways" are usually two ways - one front and back - with balls "captive" in a brass/bronze strip "cage" - as yours seems to be. One way will probably be a "cut-in" "Vee" top and bottom and the other with a "vee" and a "flat".

The twin vee guide/way keeps the table tracking straight and supports one side of the table. The other "flat and vee" way/guide will have the vee way to keep the balls in line and a flat on the other so that the table is actually constrained laterally by just one "vee" while also running on a "flat". The principle is the same as many lathe saddles and tail-stocks except that the grinder - being under less load and having a lot less friction - runs a lot "smoother".

I'd fit new balls. They are quite cheap - even the higher grade ones - and readily available. It is essential that all balls in each "way" be the same. But they may be different in/for each way.

The "true-ing" cut will sort out and reduce or perhaps eliminate any other errors.

If you do have to or want to dis-mount the chuck, mark its position on the table first and put it back there. It is quite accurate. If you are "super-fussy" - take another facing cut. I've never had to.

Quite often surface - or many - grinding operations are more about removing "hard stuff" than they are about super accuracy or super finishes. Its all a "judgment" call.

You may not use any grinder very often, but when you really need it you will be very pleased that you have it.

A surface grinder can perform a remarkable range of what many may regard as only being able to be done on a fully-fledged tool and cutter grinder.

All it needs is a bit of thought and ingenuity and you have plenty of that.

McGyver is very good and as good as I've seen in that regard.

I hope it all works out as you hope for.

JoeFin
09-27-2009, 12:40 AM
-Not that I disagree, but why do you say that? The strips and balls are dirty, but not rusty- as above, I suspect they were popped loose when they tried to move it specifically for this auction. Assuming they haven't rusted (and I know it won't take much) is there any reason I can't just wash them off (clean solvent) wash off the ways, re-lube everything and set it all back together?

I mean, I know a lot of surface grinders are picky, and it takes a near-perfect setup to split tenths reliably, but is there another reason they shouldn't or couldn't be reused?

Doc.

Should be able to as long as the Table was lifted (plywood supports to take weight off ball bearings) when it was moved and there are no pits or flat spots in the Balls.

It looked like the cages were bent up a little in the picture. But considering the cost of precision ball bearings (less then $25) why fuss with it. If the cages are bent up and restrict movement of the Balls it most likely will be transmitted into the finish of the work piece.

Same with "Out of Balance" Wheels, wheels with slightly enlarged arbor holes, and any other vibration in the wheel or the table. PM had a great thread on surface finish where the guy finally checked the tightness of the nut clamping the mag-chuck to the table. Finger tight - and it only took 2 trips out to the facility from the factory tech to diagnose the problem - LOL

Forrest also had some great information on how to dress the table befor mounting the mag-chuck and dressing the mag-chuck with the wheel.

And yes - Flood Coolant is a MUST - wheels won't work right without it

Doc Nickel
09-27-2009, 03:33 AM
I'd fit new balls. They are quite cheap - even the higher grade ones - and readily available.

-Not a bad idea. The local bearing shop has a good selection. Tried to lift the table off, but it's got a toothed belt drive I'll have to get out of the way first. Couldn't see much of the ways, lots of gunk, hopefully it's mostly grease. :)


If you do have to or want to dis-mount the chuck, mark its position on the table first and put it back there.

-I'll have to clean off the table, first. I pulled the chuck, and it's pretty rusty under there. Not "ruined" rusty, but clearly more than the day or two it was outside could account for (meaning, most likely, from the coolant.)

The face of the chuck cleaned up nicely with a bit of WD-40 and a fine stone. There's one wheel-divot and some careless-handling dings, but otherwise in fine shape. Works well, too.

What are these bolts on the backside?

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder4.jpg

Just fixturing attachments? A place for a flexible way cover?


It looked like the cages were bent up a little in the picture.

-Sort of. The "cages" appear to be strips of teflon, and are quite flexible. They don't appear damaged, but again, I'll need to clean them off for a thorough inspection.


Forrest also had some great information on how to dress the table befor mounting the mag-chuck and dressing the mag-chuck with the wheel.

-Can you dredge up a link or two? I'm not sure what to search for other than "Forrest" and "surface grinder", and while that gave me some interesting reading, it didn't seem to show what you mentioned. Or was that on PM too?

Next question: In leiu of popping the wheel off at the moment, can anyone ID this hub from this pic?

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder3.jpg

It strikes me as very similar, if not visually identical, to the one the local college's K.O. Lee used, but of course I'm going by memory and can;'t compare them side-by-side.

Once I get the thing off the truck and safely ensconced in the shop, I'll yank it and get some measurements, but I was just wondering if it struck anyone as a particular brand or style.

Doc.

Peter N
09-27-2009, 03:50 AM
And yes - Flood Coolant is a MUST - wheels won't work right without it

No it's NOT.
Coolant is nice to have - if you have it, but it's not a necessity and has no bearing whatsoever on how the wheels work. The coolant clears debris and keeps the work temperature down.
Our toolroom runs 3 6x18 J&S 540s and none have coolant. My press toolmaker (whom I bought my 540 from) has 8 540s, and none of them run coolant. Probably 90% of the toolroom grinding on this size machine that I have seen over the past 35 years has not run coolant.

However, both also have a J&S 1011 (12" x 24") and these are used for 'hogging' in grinding terms - 0.005" cuts on largish plates, and in this case they do run coolant when doing long grinds.

Peter

macona
09-27-2009, 04:07 AM
-Not a bad idea. The local bearing shop has a good selection. Tried to lift the table off, but it's got a toothed belt drive I'll have to get out of the way first. Couldn't see much of the ways, lots of gunk, hopefully it's mostly grease. :)



-I'll have to clean off the table, first. I pulled the chuck, and it's pretty rusty under there. Not "ruined" rusty, but clearly more than the day or two it was outside could account for (meaning, most likely, from the coolant.)

The face of the chuck cleaned up nicely with a bit of WD-40 and a fine stone. There's one wheel-divot and some careless-handling dings, but otherwise in fine shape. Works well, too.

What are these bolts on the backside?

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder4.jpg

Just fixturing attachments? A place for a flexible way cover?



-Sort of. The "cages" appear to be strips of teflon, and are quite flexible. They don't appear damaged, but again, I'll need to clean them off for a thorough inspection.



-Can you dredge up a link or two? I'm not sure what to search for other than "Forrest" and "surface grinder", and while that gave me some interesting reading, it didn't seem to show what you mentioned. Or was that on PM too?

Next question: In leiu of popping the wheel off at the moment, can anyone ID this hub from this pic?

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder3.jpg

It strikes me as very similar, if not visually identical, to the one the local college's K.O. Lee used, but of course I'm going by memory and can;'t compare them side-by-side.

Once I get the thing off the truck and safely ensconced in the shop, I'll yank it and get some measurements, but I was just wondering if it struck anyone as a particular brand or style.

Doc.

There is a rail that bolts to the back side. Mine is T shaped and it is ground on the machine to be parallel with the travel of the ways.

The hub looks like a pretty typical 1-1/4" hub. Sopko makes all sorts and you wont know what you have exactly until you get that one off. The nut in the center is probably left hand. Sopko sells a puller that makes it easier to get the wheels off. You will also want to get a couple of the spanner wrenches if it didnt come with it. They have a socket end that fits the center nut and prongs to fit the hub nut.

Looks like you have a standard cartridge spindle. Should say on the motor end who it is. That may tell you what the taper is. I think mine is an old Pope.

-Jerry

joeby
09-27-2009, 08:16 AM
It wouldn't hurt to check on the availability of the balls and cages from the OEM. I replaced them on an Okamoto grinder and the two sets were pretty reasonable. I think the toothed belt cost a good deal more than the balls and cages were. The cages were two pieces bonded together and came already assembled, drop in replacements.

Take a good look at the ways to make sure there are no marks. If the table had been bouncing around or dropped, there may be peen marks from the balls. Maybe they removed them before trying to move the machine, maybe not.

Kevin

Glenn Wegman
09-27-2009, 08:32 AM
Standard taper adapter

http://www.wmsopko.com/catalog.php3?pagelist=7-70

Here is an adapter puller I made.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/Fighter1/HubPuller.jpg

Worst part is getting the swarf out of the internal threads in the adapter so the puller will screw in if it has not been removed in quite some time!

JoeFin
09-27-2009, 09:20 AM
Courtousy or Forrest Addy / PM forum


Here's from Cincinnatti before they added Millicron to the name. Their techs were in the shop to overhaul the columns and head of the 35 x 36 x 192 surface grinder. This was their advice as modified by my experience.

Whenever you remove the mag chuck you really should give the grinder a good cleaning. For removing the crud from the T slot you can't beat a screwdriver and a small brush with a little solvent. Once you get it spandy clean, go over it with a scotch brite pad and then stone the flat where the chuck goes. Wire brush the hold down hardware. Clean and wash off the bottom of tha chuck then stone it.

Clean the coolant system going over the hoses, valve and spout. Empty the sump and remove the sludge. Clean and check out the tramp oil skimmer, the separator etc for proper operation.

Once everything is clean, the splash guards looked over and doctored where needed, the paint refreshed, etc, it's time to put it all back.

If you want to keep the T slot from filling with crud make a key (not a T shape) to fill the slot just short of flush with the table surface. Cut it to length to fit between the nuts leaving extra to fill the remainder of the space between the T nut and the end of the slot. Allow 0.002" clearance. Drill and tap for a jacking screw at each end and plug with a short setscrew installed with a stiff grease to hold it.

Obtain a can of LPS 3. This is a metal preservative that actively surpresses rust. It's far more effective than grease under a surface grinder chuck. Make sure all is clean. Spray all parts, the machine table and the bottom of the chuck with LPs and assemble while the preservative is still fluid. Preassemble the T nuts and the keys. Pack any accessible space with stiff grease. Install the maag chuck. Align the chuck with the table so the stops are parallel with the table motion. Spray the table hold down hardware. Snug down the chuck and re-check. It will take a while to expel the excess preservative and grease between the chuck and table so don't be too quick about grinding the table. The next day should be adequate.

Don't overtighten the hold down bolts. Ordinary torque for a grade 2 bolt should be adequate. It's possible to spring the table slightly from over-torquing.

After a day or so for the chuck to settle in regrind the chuck face.

Simple but laborious.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=137995&highlight=stone+slot+surface+grinder


First thing, if there is a way lube system, make sure it is in good working order. Unless the ways are kept "wet" you will never get accurate results.

After installing or repositioning a grinder, chances are the chuck needs to be ground in. Make sure it is securely clamped to the table. Select a very soft grit wheel with an open bond. Warm up the spindle and "excercise" the table and saddle a few minutes to make sure the way lube is distributed throughout. Dress the wheel to clean up its face completely.

Turn the magnet on. This will replicate any internal stresses on the chuck from its own clamping force. Ever so gingerley touch off on the chuck, and take no more than a few tenth at a time, rapidly traversing the table in both axes. Continue until the surface is cleaned up.

Redress the wheel, and allow any heat in the chuck to dissipate. Touch off again. Smear the magnet face with a coating of Crisco vegetable shortnening !!! Yes, this is in lieu of flood coolant, which you probably dont have. Continue with a rapid final grind, with a cross feed nearly equal to the wheel width. Reverse the feed and traverse back over the magnet. Done.

Position the back rail so it leaves approx. 1/32" gap above the table, and tighten it down. Hand-dress a relief on the back side of the wheel, so there is a little "hook". Flip the dresser on its side, and dress off the tip of the hook to make a little flate. Remove the dresser, and bring the wheel down to just above the magnet. Bring the cross-feed in until the wheel touches the rail. Slowly feed the table so the face of the wheel cleans up the rail. Feed in one-tenth as needed until the rail cleans up. You should see a nice cross-hatch pattern on the rail. Done.

lazlo
09-27-2009, 09:51 AM
The hub looks like a pretty typical 1-1/4" hub. Sopko makes all sorts and you wont know what you have exactly until you get that one off.

Most surface grinders use a standard taper: 3.000" TPF with a 1" large end. That's standard Sopko model 200 wheel adapter. Another common standard is 3.5" TPF, 1" large end (Clausing, Covel, etc).

I have no idea what Lagun uses.

But the big issue is the condition of the spindle bearings. The majority of the surface grinders and/or tool and cutter grinders you find at auction are there because the bearings are shot, and it doesn't make financial sense to put a new set of $300 bearings in an old grinder.

Macona's surface grinder is a good example.

If you can power the machine on, you can tell almost instantly if the bearings are in good condition. If you can't get power to it, like this one on a pallet, the best you can do is turn the grinding wheel by hand and see how crunchy the bearings are.

Doc Nickel
09-27-2009, 03:41 PM
There is a rail that bolts to the back side. Mine is T shaped and it is ground on the machine to be parallel with the travel of the ways.

-Ah, yes. I have seen that.


You will also want to get a couple of the spanner wrenches if it didnt come with it.

-What you see is what I got. No parts, no wheels (other than the mounted one) no tools. They even helpfully cut a couple of the cords for me. :D

Tools are easy to make, though- I'll probably try to whip up a static balancer too.


The cages were two pieces bonded together and came already assembled, drop in replacements.

-This one has two strips with teeny screws holding the two together (to capture the balls.) I was considering calling up Lagun to see if they had a manual or parts diagram, or a list of what replacement parts they carry. See if they have hubs, too, though I'd wager those are probably $100+ each, new...


Here is an adapter puller I made. Worst part is getting the swarf out of the internal threads in the adapter so the puller will screw in if it has not been removed in quite some time!

-That's about what I figured. I have a selection of motorcycle flywheel pullers that are pretty much identical except they use a hex rather than the T-bar.

On the swarf bit, why not mill some "thread restorer" style slots in the threads? That way, after a quick brushing, the puller will help clean it's own mating threads.

Or maybe a cover? A threaded cap? Probably turns the wrong way, and could add balance issues...


If you can't get power to it, like this one on a pallet, the best you can do is turn the grinding wheel by hand and see how crunchy the bearings are.

-First thing I did when I spotted it. :D

Spindle turns smoothly, no detectable-by-hand wobble or shake, no 'ratcheting' or clicking. 'Course, I won't know for sure 'til I can power it up and/or run an indicator on it, but at least it wasn't obviously and noticibly damaged.

Though again, surface grinders are, as I said, somewhat rare up here. Two of the previous ones I saw for sale went for several thousand- one was a B&S hydraulic model with a $7K (firm!) asking price- and the Craigslist ad was taken down in about a day and a half.

I kind of figured that if I could get this thing running for less than $1K, I'd still be ahead of the game. Heck, even the little Sanford grinder I saw, was asking $1,200.

Doc.

Doc Nickel
09-28-2009, 12:47 AM
Boy, these things just fall right apart, don't they?

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder5.jpg

Got it off the truck, which was kind of a trick seeing as there was absolutely no way to put a strap on the thing, except for maybe wrapping it around the spindle, and I didn't want to do that.

But once down, I got the table off, sort of. I probably didn't use the 'proper' technique, but it worked. As noted above, it does indeed have replaceable steel rails for ways. They were pretty gunky with old grease and a fair to middlin' trace of grinding dust, but no peening, dings or dents, at least not in the roller ways.

In these pics, I'd already wiped down the ways and ran the roller slides through the parts washer. It's just a preliminary cleaning to assess condition, for the moment.

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder6.jpg

The balls look okay, though up close there's some fine scratches. But again, no obvious rust, no pitting, no scoring, no dents- at least on a quick check.

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder7.jpg

That black spot just to the right of center isn't a dent, it was a speck of grit that probably came from some of the gunk still trapped in the "race" strip.

The ways have a fairly uniform line running down the Vee:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder8.jpg

It appears consistent from end to end, and it's very fine. I can't feel it with a fingertip, it doesn't catch a fingernail or "scribe" (I used a piece of aluminum welding rod filed to a point) and doesn't show when straddled with a short straightedge and lit from behind.

I may still do as recommended and replace the balls, but I'm relieved the ways look pretty good. Actually, everything looks good, apart from being filthy-grungy. Too bad I can't just get a spray bottle of Simple Green and a pressure washer...

Doc.

Doc Nickel
09-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Next quick question: The ways aren't fed by this machine's "one shot lube" pump- or at least, if they are, I can't yet find a delivery passage.

When I go to set this table back together, what sort of oil or grease should I use? Way oil? Simple axle grease?

Thanks.
Doc.

wierdscience
09-28-2009, 09:59 PM
Machine looks to be in decent shape.

The table balls and cages just any good grease that won't cake/dry out/chaulk etc.I have had good luck with disc brake slider grease from the local car parts.Permatex makes it,it's thin,clear green in color and never dries(at least after five years on a T&C grinder.It also won't take much and not very often.

lazlo
09-29-2009, 12:12 AM
When I go to set this table back together, what sort of oil or grease should I use? Way oil? Simple axle grease?

I'm not sure this helps, but some kind of light-weight way oil.

My Harig has a hydro-dynamic ways, where an oil pump floats the table ways, so they have a proprietary blend of No. 1 way oil with a ton of tackifiers in it. They warn that if you try to use conventional No. 1 oil you'll have problems with stiction, and I've seen posts on PM where folks tried to use No. 2 way oil, and it was like trying to feed the table through mud.

But for a ball-way machine, I'd guess a No. 1 way oil. I'd bet if you post on PM, someone will have the manual for it.

Doc Nickel
09-29-2009, 07:06 AM
Well, I don't think stiction will be too much of a problem on a ball-way machine... But looking at the pictures I took, it strikes me that most of the crud and buildup I wiped off was more swarf than grease, so I'm thinking the oil may be more correct than an actual grease.

I need to see if there actually is a feed line from the one-shot oiler. That and see if I can dig up a manual.

Doc.

oldtiffie
09-29-2009, 07:51 AM
I have a surface grinder, a tool & cutter grinder and a universal grinder - all with ball ways under table on the the "X" ways/slides. Two have rack and pinion drive, and the other a cable drive. The cross slides are all vee and flat ways with a lead-screw. All have a conventional round or dove-tail column with a screw drive.

As most have similar components as a gear-box, I use a good high-pressure hydraulic oil on everything - and it all works well.

I have no power drives on mine so I have a real incentive and interest to keep "drag" down as far as possible - and it does.

I run my slides through their limits and clean and re-oil them after and before use each time I use it.

My grinders are in a hobby shop and never ever get anything like a "commercial" load or duration of load that a "commercial" or "production" shop would.

Thrash, bash and hogging are not in the lexicon in my shop.

Treat that machine with TLC and you will be well rewarded Doc.

Nice find.

Nicer restoration though!!

Doc Nickel
10-18-2009, 05:29 AM
An update, for anyone interested: Finally got a corner of the shop cleared away enough to start placing, levelling and reassembling this badboy.

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/R-Lgrinder12.jpg

Still a ways to go before I can light it up, but at least I have my pallet jack and car bay back now. :D

The vacuum/coolant tank had the Sludge From Hell in it. Took half a gallon of gasoline, followed by half a gallon of Simple green to soften what the gas couldn't dissolve, and the assistance of an 11HP pressure washer to get it clean.

Turns out the ballways have their own "oiler" in the form of two remote grease nipples on the back of the table. The tag says (in mild Engrish) to 'please give about ten pumps every few days' or some such, and says I should get more information from Page 17 of the manual.

I figure I'll use a fairly thin grease. Anyone have any recommendations?

Doc.

joeby
10-18-2009, 06:46 AM
Do they specify grease, or oil?

The Nichols mills threads have gone back and forth over the same thing, and it turns out they recommend oil and not grease in the zerks.

Grease may be too heavy for this application. Even oil can cause some grief for you on a small surface grinder. The pressure oilers can "float" the table on the cross-slide ways. This causes no problems if you are aware of it because it will settle back in rather quickly, but it's not a good idea to oil between finishing passes.

Kevin

Mcruff
10-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Our Okamoto ball way grinder recomends a very lite grease. The machine came equipped with a tube of it and you were suppose to relube it every so many hours of use.

Doc Nickel
10-18-2009, 04:11 PM
The tag only says "grease", and specifies "about ten pumps"- then refers to the manual, which I don't have.

I thought the same thing about the Nichols 'grease', as I have a Nichols. I was under the impression that calling that kind of heavy oil a 'grease' had dropped out of favor by the time this grinder was made (blind guess, mid eighties to early ninties) but that's just my uneducated impression.

The smut I mopped out of the grooves when I cleaned the raceways was kind of in between- oily but also a little pasty. Was it grease that'd disassociated, or was it oil that'd dried a little?

The one hint I can see is that the ends of the ballway channels have a bit of a gap to the bed casting. An oil would run out of these and drip on the floor, whereas a grease would 'fill' the channel and get up to the balls.

As I said, I figure I'll go for a light, thin grease. Something that won't cause too much stiction, but will still be thick enough to stick and stay.

Doc.

gunbuilder
10-18-2009, 10:47 PM
Doc,
My Burke mill has fittings that look like grease zerks, but are for way oil. If you are going to use grease ask around for "cornhead grease" it is a good deal lighter than regular gun grease. Made for the colder weather a corn combine gets used in.

I would say try way oil first, if it works OK you are set, if not use grease. It is much harder to clean the grease off everything to try way oil.

Thanks,
Paul

Doc Nickel
10-19-2009, 06:17 AM
Doc, My Burke mill has fittings that look like grease zerks, but are for way oil.

-The Nichols has the same thing; zerks everywhere, but they don't all get the same gun.

The spindle is supposed to get a bearing grease (unless you have the "high speed" spindle, which gets an oil) while most of the rest of the table/knee gets an oil- but either way, it's applied with a grease gun through a zerk.

I'm kind of mixing it a bit: I modded a trigger oiler with a grease gun connector, to pump oil into the ways. Turns out it doesn't quite have the oomph to push oil into the passages very easily, so I'll have to mod a grease gun like Greg did, one of these days.

But for the moment, I use oil on the sliding parts (table and knee ways) but grease on the rotating parts (spindle, knee crank shaft, table handwheels, etc.)

For this grinder, I'm using the usual Vactra way oil in the one-shot oiler (which does the spindle vertical ways, the saddle ways, and the cross-feed screw) but as above, I'll be looking for a light, thin grease for the ballways.

Doc.

EVguru
10-19-2009, 06:45 AM
I once heard a gun referred to as a device for shooting an innocent bystander 200 yards away, rather than the innocent bystander you were aiming at.

Machine tool oil guns seem fall into a similar catagory, but in this case the innocent bystander is you and your surroundings!

Doc Nickel
10-19-2009, 07:14 AM
That's referred to as "area effect oiling". :D

I suspect I'll find this out in short order once I get my old flat-belt drill press going- no bearings, sealed or otherwise. Just babbitt, and a lot of little holes to dribble oil into... and for it to dribble back out of.

Doc.

Too_Many_Tools
10-19-2009, 12:33 PM
A related question...what is the easiest/best way to clean an used surface grinder?

The few I have done in the past have been a real pain.

TMT