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SJorgensen
09-19-2003, 05:19 AM
I may be the boy who cried wolf. I hope that I worry over nothing. I have worked with computers and networks since 1993. I have been involved in building the system that we now use. Every aspect of the industry now is being pried open by government intrusion. A new protocol of "protection" of information is "guaranteed" by the new HIPPA requirements on healthcare information. At the same time that these "guarantees" of privacy are offered, they require that ALL the clinical private notes of counselors and drug addict clients are included in the data transmitted to the government. There is more.

Spence

SJorgensen
09-19-2003, 05:41 AM
A new system is being put in place for the health care system that is browser based. All of the providers of health care will process all of their clinical notes and all private information on a single system based on the east coast. I think I can determine the location but in the new world there is no guarantees of where anything goes.

chief
09-19-2003, 08:48 AM
Privacy is nothing more than a word from a bygone era. The government cannot be trusted
in my opinion.
The fact that both parties lie on TV and think nothing of it should have any intelligent up in arms but some people are too lazy to care until it is too late.
" Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither" to parapharse B.Franklin.
I'm also pretty fed up with judges who can't seem to understand the constitution.

wierdscience
09-20-2003, 01:44 AM
Type your first and last name,city and state into google and then press "map"when the screen comes up,need I say more?

SJorgensen
09-20-2003, 02:17 AM
I tried that but I didn't come up. It doesn't worry me though. I have always been in the phone book. Now I only use a cell phone and if not for the expense, I would make that number public as well. I deal in systems that handle information. I can't truely know if it is secure, and I can't know if it is being infiltrated. Anyone who says they are certain of the security of their data either aren't aware, or perhaps they are keeping their system off the web. This is the only trustworthy method. Without fail, "inpenetrable" systems are penetrable with enough expertise or insider knowledge. This is a real concern of mine over electronic voting machines. How to ensure the accuracy of the result and not let it be manipulated. I would think that you have to have multiple systems, controlled by multiple entities, that must be in agreement from the very point of the button push, in the voting booth.

Spence

Thrud
09-20-2003, 02:38 AM
Spence

When cell phones came out the ONLY country that insisted on high security ecodeing was West Germany. As it stands now modern cell phones have GPS tracking built in so you can be tracked. The phone companies also have the equipment to listen in on any cell call. They also know at any given moment where you are - a feature that helps them determine if your code and security key has been scanned and pilfered to pirates - hint: NEVER power up your phone at an airport!

As you are no doubt aware, the US government wants firewalls abolished on the internet as it prevents them from doing "security scans" - Big Brother can't keep up with the hackers. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

SJorgensen
09-20-2003, 03:46 AM
Hi Thrud,

Our Congress is now working on a bill in regard to E911, which is presumably a new system similar to our 911 emergency systems where the dispatcher knows electronically from where the emergency call was made. The gist of this bill is that the cell phone providers will have to be able to triangulate the position of any cell phone user. They are pushing for this ability even in rural areas where the expense of two extra towers with no improvement in cell phone service doesn't make any sense. There isn't really sufficient reason to incur these extra expenses if the reason is for emergency service, because the caller can tell the dispatcher where they are. I don't trust this initiative because it doesn't pass the smell test. It is wrapped up in good sounding rhetoric like the “Patriot Act” but the underlying motivation is not for emergency service.

I have a GPS receiver and I know some phones have GPS capability, but I don’t think it is that common in cell phones yet, otherwise the government wouldn’t need this new tracking capability.

To stay free requires vigilance, once freedom is lost, the cost to regain it very high. Those who would take it away do it with the best of intentions, and even they don’t understand their effect on the system as a whole. They are driven to improve on whatever the mandate is from their leadership. They are going to protect us from terrorism by driving us with fear into cowering in our homes and fearing to be fingered as a threat. This is the same thing that Senator McCarthy was trying to do in protecting us from “communism”. Is that really what he was doing?

There is one other technology that people need to be aware of. The keyword is RFID. In a nutshell, a device is now available that can be sewn into clothing and attached to any and all products that we buy. The size of the device can be as small as a grain of sand. Each device is unique and it can be tracked anywhere on the planet. Soon the cost per RFID will be a penny or less. RFID interrogators will be between $20 and $40.

To what purposes will this be used? Some are undoubtedly good but there might be a dark side. Everyone needs to know about these things, so that it isn’t in the shadows and that it isn’t a surprise when we are suddenly subjects of some government that we no power to oppose.

Spence

wierdscience
09-20-2003, 09:56 AM
Spence the e911 locator has been law in 37 states for years,NY was even caught red handed by the families of people who called and died because NY had been collecting taxes for get this 9 years!When people found out that they pay on average .70 a month tax speciffically for that service and have not had a single piece of equipment installed the got a little pissed.I remember the total for the state of NY being $90million.

The odd thing is Mississippi is usually last in things like this,but for once were first,our system is nearly installed,go figure,either way It won't effect me,I threw mine out when they quit being just phones,I don't need to play games,message text,down load e-mail,or transmit pictures.I get ticked everytime I go to Radio Shack and the girl behind the counter starts with the cell phone speale,I just ask her,"all I want is a little square box with an antenna,0-9 keys and a send button,do you have that?She usually says "no,but we have an icon for it"thats when I tell her where my old one is(somewhere along the interstate between here and Illinois) http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Al Messer
09-20-2003, 10:06 AM
Spence, and others, have you read the "Left Behind" series by Tim LaHaye? What you are discussing (cell phone tracking, RFID, etc.)is the norm for the people in these books. It'll give you cold sweats when you think about it very much.

Al

pgmrdan
09-20-2003, 08:15 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 03-08-2004).]

Thrud
09-22-2003, 12:08 AM
Spence
They also want to be able to pinpoint drug dealers. As far as I am conerned they should do it. In the same hand they better crack down on those assholes with a vengence.

I have nothing to hide, the bastards already have my ass-print (oh, to be young and stupid again). They know where I live and what I am up to. I could care less - unless they start putting up pictures of me and my ass in the post office - then the girls have nothing to look forward to... http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

The other reason they like cell phones is they can listen in and get their perverted jollies...I mean they don't need a court order for a wire tap as you have already "agreed to let them listen" by broadcasting a signal. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 09-21-2003).]

pgmrdan
09-22-2003, 06:52 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 03-08-2004).]

Crazy Ed
09-22-2003, 06:18 PM
All anywho does is search the phone directory. My phone is in someone else's name, and it finds that, but NOT me. That is all. I have been using that for 3 years next month.

pgmrdan
09-23-2003, 10:02 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 03-08-2004).]

SJorgensen
09-24-2003, 12:02 AM
Pgrmdan,
That sounds a lot like the system that the NSA had even as far back as the 1960's. I read one story about a system where they used computers to look for "keywords" in massive amounts of intercontinental communications. One of the keywords they looked for was "Jane Fonda." If you remember, prior to her exercise video, the government of the US, and most of the Vets wanted her dead for not only speaking out against the Vietnam War but also for actually visiting North Vietnam without killing even one of the enemy. Regardless of the reason, the point is that over 30 years ago the government was able to do this.
Now what can they do?
Will they even be able to change the results of electronic election system? That would be a scary thought.

Knowing what has been done by governments in the past, makes you wonder about what is being done by people in power in the present, and fear what they can do in the future.

I’ve been watching C-Span and one of the Congressmen said a conservative estimate of what the Bush administration will spend on Iraq would be around $200 Billion. Since the population of Iraq is 4,834,773 that works out to be $41,000 per every single Iraqi. Of course the money isn’t going into the pockets of Iraqi’s. It will go into the pockets of Halliburton and also to the military contractors and I wonder how much will actually get to our troops. I heard that some of our troops haven’t even been issued flak jackets. That would cost too much. Next they will cut back on ammo and shoes.

Spence

Thrud
09-24-2003, 04:30 AM
Spence

The US is BUYING ordinance from Iraqis willing to turn it in. $500 US for RPG rounds - I don't know what they are paying for Ak-47, Ak-74, ammo, HE, or mines. They are also offering huge rewards for turning in assorted assholes there and abroad.

Wish I could turn Salami Ben Lardass in for the $50Million US!

SJorgensen
09-26-2003, 04:02 AM
On the face of it I think that is a great approach. However access to weapons isn't really the problem, just like it isn't anywhere else in the world. Iraq and Afghanistan are still awash in all the weapons that we, and other nations have dumped there. This at the expense of the taxpayers (theirs and ours.) It is their will to use them that we need to address. Also if the bounty for RPG's is too high, for instance if the black market value in Iraq is less than $50 and we are buying them up at $500 then it doesn't take a genius to imagine that fresh supplies will be found to take advantage of the situation. As I understand it the average Police Officer makes $100/ month. When I hear about the expenditures we are dishing out I wonder why we aren't being shown any of the construction work or repair work or damage to the pipelines etc. I want to see the power of even ONE billion dollars at the current exchange rate on their economy but we aren't being shown any results. In my simple mind I think that if the wages are approximately 1/10th of ours in the current exchange rate and the size of the nation is about the size of one of our states. States like Texas or California then a BILLION dollars is a lot of MILLIONS of dollars. And this is also magnified by a power of 10 by the exchange rate. I fear that the truth is that our own government through the Halliburton and Bectell companies that are connected to the Vise President is royally fleecing us. I want to see the accounting of all the expenditures. I'd like to know if the Bectell Company is one of those "off shore" holding companies that don't pay any US taxes. It is our duty to future generations and by extension also the rest of the world, to understand this situation to the fullest extent. Republicans that don't even try to address these questions are to be judged in the fullness of time. I think there is going to be some hands caught in the cookie jar. In those cases I like the Islamic penalty for stealing. But the super rich don't suffer penalties when they steal the retirements from the middle and lower classes. Just like when the Bushes didn't get charged during the Lincoln Savings and Loan imbroglio. Charles Keating got to play golf in a special prison for the upper class for a while though.

Spence

Thrud
09-26-2003, 08:18 PM
Spence
$500 is cheap compared to the loss of a single soldier, not to mention destroyed equipment Hummers may only cost $30K, but once loaded with gear it is more like $100K. $500 is nothing. Plus look at the damage it does to the country itself - buildings are not cheap, the power, water - all expensive systems.

I think it is an very good idea that can save lives and bring peace about much faster.

You do realize that the WTC has cost far more than the Iraq war in rescue/cleanup cost, building replacement (they have to rebuild there according to the original agreement when it was first built), lost revenues, insurance payouts.

Iraq had the crap blown out of it - restoration takes time and money. Although I don't understand why they just don't pay the Iraqi's to do the work. As the attacker, they are obliged to clean up the mess. Germany and Japan cost far more, but it was not a big deal back then.

wierdscience
09-26-2003, 08:48 PM
You hit the nail on the head Thrud,the physical damage cost is in excess of 1 trillion dollars,not counting the 2 trillion dollars lost as a result of the ripple sent through the economy.

It really pisses me off when all people can do is bitch and moan that Bush is this,Bush is that,he's doing this wrong,he's doing that wrong,but you ever notice they never have anything better in the way of ideas?The only one they can come up with is turning control over to the UN,shades of Somialia.

SJorgensen
09-27-2003, 01:53 AM
Thrud,
I know that you are aware that an RPG is not worth a single soldier, or you could say a person. And an RPG is not worth a single Hummer, or you could say, one really cool 4-wheel drive vehicle.

If a person wants to kill you with one though, he's not going to sell it for $500 because he is in a war. If he doesn't want to kill you, then it may be worth about $50 or even $5 or free depending on the black market. Chances are though, that they have a wait-and-see-attitude, and they may want to hang on to them for a while. It seems like everyone over there has a sub-machine gun.

I'm not opposed to the prospect of rebuilding Iraq, nor even a large investment over there. And the Marshall Plan did great things (although it did put their industry ahead of our own for a while.) If you read my posts more closely, you will find a common thread in it, in that I hate cheating, fraud, embezzlement, corruption, and unfair competition. These are my American ideals, that I wish we could get my government back to.
I was a great supporter of the war effort in Iraq. I still wonder about the WMD that hasn't been found, and I realize that even big things could be hidden very well in any big sandy country, and no one would know where. Pharaohs had the secrets of their tombs well hidden, even though hundreds and maybe thousands were involved and it stayed hidden for thousands of years. This reminds me something I read on a Biker's T-shirt. It said, "Three can keep a secret. As long as two of them are DEAD!" Saddam probably saw the same shirt.
I think that we have done a great thing In Iraq, and we did liberate a Country. Now we have to find a way to get out, without letting a Shaw or a Dictator take over that is even more oppressive. On this I can say that we have a poor record, and the entire Middle Eastern region of the world is very very aware of that. We've been involved in almost all of the bad governments over there, including the Shaw of Iran, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, Osama bin Laden and I'm sure many more. I'll bet each of the four that I have mentioned have had a picture of themselves shaking hands with George Bush Sr.. I feel bad about some of the subterfuges that my government pulls to win the support of Americans and the World. I can't trust what I think sometimes, because of what they do. I remember that before the first Gulf War that the "Oilman" George Bush Sr. wanted to pursue in Iraq, that I watched a Senatorial hearing where a young Kuwaiti girl testified through her tears, about witnessing those Iraqi bastards stealing the incubators from their own Kuwaiti hospitals and that they were just killing the babies.

Well that was very terrible and very motivating to my nation, but it turned out that it never happened and the girl was the daughter of a Kuwaiti Diplomat.

I've said enough for today.

Spence

Here is one reference in case that anyone has any doubts about the assertions that I have made. If anyone wants to know more about anything that I have said, I would be glad to help them find information through reliable and numerous sources. They might not all be unbiased sources, but at least they are thoroughly documented and referenced sources. It is sometimes very hard to stay unbiased.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html

Spence


[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 09-27-2003).]

Thrud
09-27-2003, 03:00 AM
Spence.

I agree with your views. Believe me, Canada is not "virgin white" either. We live in a strange, ugly, beautiful, unique world. Lets hope we can refrain from blowing it up or killing each other off. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//frown.gif

Evan
09-27-2003, 03:50 AM
This is probably the best explanation for why we have not found anyone else "out there". Us hyper competitive animal types just don't last long enough. A couple of hundred earth revs, a quick eyeblink in the cosmic time scale, hell, a picosecond. Hmm... Friday night, I think I should go to bed.

SJorgensen
09-27-2003, 04:02 AM
Thrud,
I know that I can't solve the worlds problems, and if you were in better shape physically, I would hope that you could do it (because I think you would do your best and it would be very good), but I know that I've been pretty poor at solving my own problems.
That being said, I can tell you that when you are at the bottom, it does focus your mind to see what is above you.
So if I have nothing, I have empathy.

That must be something.

Spence

[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 09-27-2003).]

Thrud
09-28-2003, 02:34 AM
Spence
For what it is worth my brother, we all suck at our own problems. I am no exception. I have pulled some real boners in my time. But that is how we learn. I have had my ups and downs - the downs always suck but in retrospect I came to understand that it was really no big deal in the long run. And I always came away from it learning something important and always useful. Every mistake in life is an experience worth every much or more so than every triumph.

It is a fact that some of the best teachers are those that had problems in a particular subject or are brilliant people (or both) that love to share their knowledge. So even if you think you can't solve your own problems, from the outside looking in it is often the case that the person with problems can solve others problems. If nothing else, this is because they understand what went wrong - even though they cannot seem to apply it to their own circumstance. This is what makes us so...human.

I often speculated that the only way the world would ever come together as true brothers & sisters was if some external force (say, space invaders) threatened the Earth. It would probably take something like that to bring us together at last.

I should think that as intelligent people we should be able to accomplish unity soon.

SJorgensen
09-28-2003, 04:31 AM
Thanks for the kind words Thrud. You are a great man.

Spence

Thrud
09-28-2003, 05:12 PM
Spence
We all are great men/women - even if we do not realize it. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

eXoticforms
09-29-2003, 11:44 PM
It's a C O N spiracy.

jfsmith
09-30-2003, 06:22 PM
lets see Canada has a problem with their gun registry or lack of it, the U.S. can't prove or disprove WMD.

Really stupid things happenevery where, City TV reported that some LtC fined a couple of Infrantrymen for discharging their rifles in Afghanistan.

Is there any reason to have reality TV? Those shows aren't as exciting as everyday life. :-)

Jerry