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Evan
09-29-2003, 03:56 PM
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/33106.html

wierdscience
09-29-2003, 08:57 PM
I think that its a case of much to do about nothing.
It also has a lot to do with the recent case of a certain CIA agents idenity that was devulged by a couple of reporters,they want to know why they were told and who told them.

I don't see the problem with the first ammendment rights,they are still able to report the news as it happens even if they have to occasionaly devulge their sources.

I mean gee it would be silly of them not to ask Dan Rather where Oshama Binladin was hidding if he just did and interview with him.

Evan
09-29-2003, 11:19 PM
When you lose a free press you have lost your freedom entirely. This case isn't about Osama Bin Laden, it's about a harmless white hat hacker that made stupid people look stupid. If the FBI can issue a gag order on a journalist with no court action whatever you then have lost your free press. The biggest issue in this case is not revealing sources although that is important, it's the gag order. That's where the first amendment comes in, the right to free speech. It appears to be vanishing. Good luck.

wierdscience
09-30-2003, 12:27 AM
Freedon of speech does you absolutly no good when the media is completely biased anyway.

Ever notice when they do and article on healthcare they always use the words healthcare and "crisis"together?They like to make it sound as though there are no doctors anywhere and we are in the middle of Africa or something to that effect,they always report on the mistakes made by doctors,but do they ever report on any of their sucesses?Nope!

It is also neccesary to understand that we are in a war,during WWII lots of things were kept from the American as well as the Canadian people,things that till this day have never seen the light of day and many that never will.In this context you have to accept the fact that things will and have to be done to protect our intel and the our agents in the field even if it means bending the rules.You also need to consider what the opponents of the patriot act wanted instead,things like DNA id cards for every member of society,complete tracing of all bank and atm accounts of every person that drives,sails,and flys and even talk of implanted microchips under the skin.And it also should be noted that these are the same people who want to make sure that the quote "pows"in Cuba are given their full rights under the constitution while they take ours away even though the Haige does not reguard the prisoners as pows or enemy combatants.All while insisting that commercial airline pilots can't be trusted to carry a gun.No people are deciving us,the only question is which group.

Somewhere along the way the "journalists" decided they had an opinion and it matters more than what the truth is,the reporters job is no more than to report the news and thats it.

But your right,this could be bad,for once they might have to make sure that what they report is first true and second consider who their sources are.

Oso
09-30-2003, 12:45 AM
The problem with concessions to the government is that they are never given back...They just become a new baseline, and set a precedent so next time it is harder to resist.

Remember, every time you think, you weaken the state

mpbush
09-30-2003, 02:41 AM
When they came for the Communists I said nothing because I wasn't a communist. When they came for the gypsies, I said nothing because I wasnt a gypsy. When they they came for the Jews, I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew.

When government takes away anyones rights, that is an attack on ALL of our rights.

I love America because we believe in the rule of LAW, blind justice, etc. Well, that country seems to be disapearing rather rapidly. Your free to do anything as long as the government doesn't mind. Well, that is NOT freedom, that is slavery.

Reporters have sources to reveal stupidity in government ONLY because those sources know they are safe from exposure. Remove that and government stupidity will NEVER be revealed.

Putting this in language even the right wingers can understand. Imagine if the Clintons indescretions were called a threat to national security and thus were not allowed to be exposed and he was lawfully allowed to squash anything that might threaten him? Doesn't sound so good does it?

Lets not forget that it is firmly established that the FBI had ALL the information needed to roll up the whole 9/11 plot but was too stupid to allow the agents who were BEGGING to dig into it to act. They don't need MORE info, they need to figure out how to use what they already have.

If this is a war, we are rapidly loosing it. The CLASSIC strategy in a guerilla war is to get the government to crack down on the people you are going to "liberate". That pisses those people off and the ones who wanted NOTHING to do with their "liberators" suddly start to find common ground with them. All because the government is so stupid as to do exactly what you want.

I would love to see America regain the moral high ground in this mess. How we have treated the people we are holding is criminal, both legally and morally. One day they are POWs but when that is inconvenient case then we can't torture them, they are enemy combatents, if that doesn't get us what we want, then they are something else. That is the behaviour of a criminal state and it saddens me that we are the one doing it. We are so stupid as to reuse Saddams most dreaded prison as OUR prison in Iraq, what sort of message does that send?

Okay, I am going to quite but only cause I don't want to crash the server.

Michael

Thrud
09-30-2003, 03:07 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Oso:
Remember, every time you think, you weaken the state</font>

The Canadian Liberal Government thinks they know what they are doing - this explains everthing! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//wink.gif

wierdscience
09-30-2003, 11:20 PM
Government stupidity is in the news all the time,the only thing is nobody ever does anything about it.We have become a country of limp wristed emotionally driven skitzos,everything scares us,the hole in the ozone layer,cholesterol,dioxin,global warming,lukemia from power lines and hundred other things that the media have scared us silly over that it has created a society where things must be hidden from us because if they aren't they won't get done even if they are vital to our survival.

We need to go back and look at what the constitution gaurantees before we all get scared stupid by the media.

wierdscience
09-30-2003, 11:43 PM
Look here-
http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

docsteve66
10-01-2003, 03:50 PM
AMEN! Weird one
Steve