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MinnesotaHSM
10-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Is there any performance difference between US and Import M2 lathe tool bits?

Besides MSC, does anyone know where to get Cleveland Mo-Max bits?

Are Cleveland Mo-Max bits still made in the US?

I have some older Mo-Max bits (probably at least 20 years old) that are a dream to work with. Are they still worth buying now or is the M2 not like the old M2?

Thanks.

- T

lazlo
10-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Yes, there's a huge difference.

I've tried the Chinese and Indian M2 lathe bits that Enco and KBCTools sell, and they're atrocious. They're very hard and very brittle -- they chip and crack very easily.
Western tool steel is way better. I like Vasco, Cleveland, and especially Crucible/CPM.

By the way, you can find NOS lathe blanks on Ebay for a song.

heidad01
10-22-2009, 12:14 PM
MSC is the only source I have found for Mo-Max tool bits. I while back I called around and found a source in Florida for Stellite (spelling?) but never did order them because they did not have the size I wanted. You can Also consider T15 from AR Warner. You can get these form LittleMachineSop.com for about the same price as Mo-Max. Both Stellite and T15 are excellent tool bits. I use import M2 for softer materials but they loose sharpness very quickly. DavidH

sidneyt
10-22-2009, 12:32 PM
Yes, there's a huge difference.



I guess I have just been lucky with my purchases of HSS tool blanks. I have purchased M2 from Enco, Wholesale Tools, HF, etc made in China, India, and Korea and I have never had any of it chip and crack. Perhaps you should stick with quality vendors like Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40641

Duffy
10-22-2009, 12:45 PM
I made a score at Plaza Machinery a while back. I bought a lot of 70 5/16" bits for $40.00. They were Rex aaa, made by Colt Industries. They are INFINITELY better than the Chinese M2 sold by Busy Bee. While 5/16" was not my first choice, it did not take long to adjust my tool holders at that price! even after they got up here to Canada, they were less than a dollar each. Duffy

lazlo
10-22-2009, 01:37 PM
They were Rex aaa, made by Colt Industries. They are INFINITELY better than the Chinese M2 sold by Busy Bee.

Yes indeed! Rex AAA is the Crucible/CPM I mentioned above -- Crucible used to be Colt's foundry. CPM stands for "Crucible Powdered Metals".

A British HSS steel I like alot is Firth-Sterling - I got a box of Circle C bits which are great.

Mcgyver
10-22-2009, 01:54 PM
Perhaps you should stick with quality vendors like Harbor Freight:
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ok, had some beers at lunch, just not sure how tongue in cheek that is

quasi
10-22-2009, 03:13 PM
Mo Max is M42 not M2, big difference in performance and price.

hssmike
12-01-2009, 10:42 PM
T-
Big difference in imported HSS and domestic (US). I bought some imported HSS and hit with our Niton analyzer, there is just enough alloy in it to get it hard and thatís it! I'm not saying it won't cut but it sure wonít last long.
We stock (manufacture) all the grades of HSS tool bits. M-2 M-4 M-42 T-15 and rex76. Send me a pm or give me a call.

Lazlo Rex AAA is also know as T-4, Very good grade.

By the way, was informed last week that I will still be able to buy Cpm Grades as the Crucible mill is now rolling! I did stock up on a good bit of CPM before the bankruptcy. Wish they had bought all the service centers at the same time. Oh well

Mike Warner
Arthur R Warner Co.

Walter
12-02-2009, 02:10 AM
Mike, it's awesome news to hear that Crucible is still kicking. Last I spoke with them (prolly 4 - 6 months ago) they wouldn't quote CPM 1V, and that hurt as my inventory is down to just a small chunk :mad:

Do you folks stock standard square bits in the rex 76?

hssmike
12-02-2009, 10:06 AM
Walter,
Yes we do stock the square bits in Rex 76.
Right now we are very busy in our tool bit / flat stock sales
I still haven't heard how they are going to distribute their material. I'll let you know when I find out.

Thanks
Mike

lazlo
12-02-2009, 12:44 PM
was informed last week that I will still be able to buy Cpm Grades as the Crucible mill is now rolling! I did stock up on a good bit of CPM before the bankruptcy.

Cameron told me by email that Crucible filed for Chapter 11 reorganization, but they weren't going out of business -- that's great news!


Wish they had bought all the service centers at the same time.

Are you saying that someone bought CPM? Who? Did they let some of the service centers die?

hssmike
12-02-2009, 02:20 PM
lazlo,
Crucible, as we know it, declared bankruptcy may 6th 2009. JP Industries bought the mill and it is now called Crucible LLC. JPI did not buy distribution (all the service centers); they are going up for auction soon. I think a company called SBI is trying to buy all the service centers.

Check out: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/crucible_industries_llc_restar.html


Mike

lazlo
12-02-2009, 02:41 PM
Crucible, as we know it, declared bankruptcy may 6th 2009. JP Industries bought the mill and it is now called Crucible LLC.

Oh, my bad -- I thought CPM ("Crucible Powdered Metals") was Crucible, but apparently it was a subsidiary of Crucible: the Crucible Specialty Metals division.

I need to call the Dallas office and see if they're staying in business...

sidneyt
12-03-2009, 12:22 PM
T-
Big difference in imported HSS and domestic (US)....

Mike Warner
Arthur R Warner Co.

Do you mean that all HSS steel made outside of the US is inferior to the domestic product? I am sure there are producers of HSS in Europe and Asia that would disagree with that. With the changes that have taken place over the past decade or so I would not think that US producers of are necessarily the largest producers of HSS or even the best.

hssmike
12-03-2009, 08:07 PM
Sidney,
What I'm referring to as inferior are the $.80 so called M-2 tool bits that are imported, not HSS in general. How am I to compete with someone (imports) selling products that are not what is advertised? You can't tell the quality of the tool until you use it. I'm sure there are imports that are actually what they say they are, but I've yet to see it.
We purchase a fairly large quantity of High Speed Steel from Europe and Austria and the quality is excellent. Don't care too much for the Asian steel though. I had a lot of problems with analysis, decarb, flatness and rust prevention. I'm sure as time goes by it will get better but for now I'm sticking with our current vendors.
You are correct in the statement that there are not many mills left in the US, but there are some exceptional mills here. Especially sheet products.

Thanks
Mike Warner

Walter
12-04-2009, 03:44 AM
Walter,
Yes we do stock the square bits in Rex 76.
Right now we are very busy in our tool bit / flat stock sales
I still haven't heard how they are going to distribute their material. I'll let you know when I find out.

Thanks
Mike

Thanks for the response Mike. It's much appreciated.

hssmike
12-04-2009, 10:32 PM
MinnesotaHSM,
Cleveland Mo-Max is a trade name. They make different grades of HSS bits.
See: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=501&PARTPG=GSDRVSM&PMT4NO=75675083&PMITEM=71098131&PMCTLG=00&PMT4TP=*LTIP .
I don't know if they are imported or not.

Mike Warner

jkilroy
12-06-2009, 04:49 PM
Mo-Max, at least some of it, has been made in Mexico for a while. I have a huge 1" sqaure piece of Mo-Max, says so right on the side. Still very high quality steel, cuts great, even if its a bit tough to grind.