PDA

View Full Version : Question about cheap mill vise?



Willy
10-23-2009, 12:59 AM
Never noticed this before, but on this cheap Chinese mill vise why is the fixed jaw higher than the movable one?
About .090 difference. Makes it kinda hard to mill a plate held with both jaw plates on the outside ends of the jaws.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/PA220027a.jpg[/IMG]


Other quality vises I have the jaws are both the same height.
Is this some kind of cruel joke or am I missing something?


/

darryl
10-23-2009, 01:17 AM
Things like that irk me. Here they are, trying to make a product as cheaply as possible, and they left too much metal on the high jaw. :)

Black_Moons
10-23-2009, 03:56 AM
I think this might be a case of clone error. IE they cloned it, includeing the holes on the back of the movable/fixed jaw, but did'nt realise they had to be ground the same height to actualy be useful (I did'nt know what the holes on the back of the vise where for untill recently)

tattoomike68
10-23-2009, 04:23 AM
Its a cheapo, just dont be afraid to hog a cut on the vice, its disposable tooling.

Iv seen real dilldo heads drill through a part, through the vice and clear into the mill table. As long as you dont do that you wont be a dilldo head.

LOL

sidneyt
10-23-2009, 08:01 AM
Perhaps you need a Kurt.

SGW
10-23-2009, 10:03 AM
Try turning one of the jaws over. The holes may not be exactly centered (they aren't in the jaws for my Kurt).

terry_g
10-23-2009, 10:11 AM
Looks like the same cheap vice that I bought from Busy Bee Tools.
The adapter plate had to have both sides machined as they were out more than .010" the dowel hole was way off center.
Once I fixed that I had to machine the bottom of the vice flat.
When the vice was tightened the movable jaw would lift .015" or more depending how tight I tightened it. I disassembled the vice, the bottom slide has an angled extension that pushes against a half ball socket affair to pull the movable jaw down when tightened. Both of these surfaces were very rough. Once I cleaned them up the jaw now lifts about .0015 if I really tighten it. I will have to check if the jaws are the same height.
They should just supply the rough castings and let us machine our selves.


Terry

airsmith282
10-23-2009, 10:29 AM
Looks like the same cheap vice that I bought from Busy Bee Tools.
The adapter plate had to have both sides machined as they were out more than .010" the dowel hole was way off center.
Once I fixed that I had to machine the bottom of the vice flat.
When the vice was tightened the movable jaw would lift .015" or more depending how tight I tightened it. I disassembled the vice, the bottom slide has an angled extension that pushes against a half ball socket affair to pull the movable jaw down when tightened. Both of these surfaces were very rough. Once I cleaned them up the jaw now lifts about .0015 if I really tighten it. I will have to check if the jaws are the same height.
They should just supply the rough castings and let us machine our selves.


Terry

i got my green kurt type vise from busy bee and its perfect was right out of the box perfect, i guess some get by that are not to perfect but thats the pick of the litter i suppose..

they are a really nice vice to i have used mine not only for milling but have also straighten out some parts on my buddys harly bad boy bike for him that other wise would have ment replacing the parts,for the 118 bucks the vice cost me i have thought about getting another one eventually,,

lazlo
10-23-2009, 11:11 AM
Its a cheapo, just dont be afraid to hog a cut on the vice, its disposable tooling.

I had to do that with my Enco Kurt clone vise -- they don't stress relieve the castings, so it warps during machining. The bed was off by 6 thou from one guide way to another, and the base was out of parallel from the bed by 5 thou.

So I removed the moving jaw, and removed the fixed jaw and key, and decked the bed with a facemill with the base laying flat on the mill table.

Willy
10-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Try turning one of the jaws over. The holes may not be exactly centered (they aren't in the jaws for my Kurt).

It won't matter if I turn it over, the jaw is still .090 too thick on one end.
If I lay a piece of stock across the jaws and use the jaw end plates to hold the material, (as they are pictured) it will not be parallel to the table.



Its a cheapo, just dont be afraid to hog a cut on the vice, its disposable tooling.

Iv seen real dilldo heads drill through a part, through the vice and clear into the mill table. As long as you dont do that you wont be a dilldo head.


Mike, I've only drilled into a vise once and that was a long time ago, never into the table though...at least not yet.:D
This piece of crap needs a bullet through it though.

Terryy_g, good eye, yeah it's a Busy Bee one alright. Now I now why it's called Busy Bee...you're going to be busy as a bee just to cover up all the f**kups that you just made with their sh*t for tools.
I had all of the same issues as you did with yours...Plus!

But just to show that I don't hold a grudge I think I'll take it fishing with me next time out...it can be my anchor.

Sad part is I have a Kurt but it's about five hours drive from here.
How does that saying go..."never a borrower or a lender be".

Frank Ford
10-23-2009, 12:26 PM
Well, these things aren't as precise as we'd like. But they make up for it with really lousy casting. . .

Here's my Grizzly version:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/ViseRepair/viserepair01.jpg

And, here's how I fixed it:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/ViseRepair/viserepair.html

Willy
10-23-2009, 01:10 PM
Frank, I was using the vise in this fashion with the jaw plates on the outside holes of the jaws.




http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/PA230006a.jpg


It's a five inch vise like this one (http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2251). If I didn't know better I'd say it came from the same factory as your Grizzly.:rolleyes:
Normally I have the jaw plates affixed to the insides of the jaws but for this application I used the outside position.
In order to keep the workpiece parallel to the table I had to put a .090 shim between the movable jaw and the workpiece.
I think I'll take .090 off of the fixed jaw as a more permanent solution.

Nice fix on the broken casting, I'll file that one away for later as that will probably be my next issue!

Alistair Hosie
10-23-2009, 01:35 PM
I bought my mill from a nice chap and he sold me a groz vice not expensive but it was nice and low so I went fot ir.First time I used it it just kept winding the whole casting was seperated in two, talk about cheap castings. There was a big blow hole in it size of a a small tomato.Anyway wrote to them several times no reply whatsoever beware groz vices. Alistair

Black_Moons
10-23-2009, 03:08 PM
Yea Id recommend just taking off 0.09" from the fixed jaw.. you might wanna find some cast iron to play with first to mess about with surface finish and see just what tool does best. or play around on the vise but only cut down to 0.04" for finish testing perposes (you know it will be the same material then)

Willy
10-23-2009, 03:31 PM
Not really sure if the jaw is steel or cast iron, I'll have a better look when I get out to the shop later.
Doesn't really matter though as cast iron finishes beautifully.
I would think for strength it would be steel but I won't be surprised if it's cast.

lazlo
10-23-2009, 03:57 PM
Well, these things aren't as precise as we'd like. But they make up for it with really lousy casting. . .

Cast iron isn't supposed to look like styrofoam. :(

lane
10-23-2009, 08:41 PM
That is the reason those vice`s are not any good . They break and they are not flat and parallel and the surfaces are not the same . You buy cheap you get cheap. Buy a Kurt and you want have to complain. If some one gave me a pickup truck load of those vise`s . I would take them to the scrap yard right then and dispose of.If you cant afford the best don`t spend your money.

beanbag
10-23-2009, 08:47 PM
Well, these things aren't as precise as we'd like. But they make up for it with really lousy casting. . .

And, here's how I fixed it:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/ViseRepair/viserepair.html

Using a Kurt vice to fix a cheapo vise, nice!

Black_Moons
10-23-2009, 09:01 PM
Yea see, the repair got done in a kurt vise and it fixed the cheap ass vise. thats just how good a kurt is. j/k

Frank Ford
10-23-2009, 09:12 PM
When I got my Bridgeport clone, the first thing I bought for it was the Kurt. After reading how universally it is liked and used by forum members, it seemed the obvious choice.

We bought the cheap Grizzly to use on on the Grizzly wood mill in the guitar repair shop, and I figured with such light use it would probably be OK.

Wrong again. . .

darryl
10-23-2009, 10:10 PM
Well, you already have that vise, so-

I'd be tempted to take it all apart, then check the upper surface where the movable jaw slides for flat. If that seems good, turn it over, mount on the mill, then skim the base. Debur that, then rebuild it. Once the movable jaw is working right without slop, you can shave off what you need to make the top surface of the jaws even. Clean up that result, then hope that the jaws inside surfaces are vertical and meet up well.

This might seem counter-indicated, but maybe before you do any of this, put a piece of flat material in the jaws and tighten it well. Might as well find out first if it's going to break.

Willy
10-24-2009, 01:10 AM
I've gone over the vise the past couple of weeks and it's square and parallel now. I would just like to go to a better thrust bearing and lower the fixed jaw and it'll be usable.
It sure ain't as nice as my Kurt, but it's out on loan,(long story,don't ask) so until buddy brings the Kurt back it will do.

Hey it's only temporary so it's not the end of the world, and I got it from someone that had it for four years and never used it, so $65 for a 5" swivel base vise I shouldn't be bellyaching too much.

The reason for my original post was to inquire about the jaw height issue since I'd never run into that one before and thought there might be a reason for it that I wasn't aware of.
Apparently I was right...just someone's idea of a cruel joke, either that or all they had on the floor that day were fixed jaws to fit another series of vise.