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View Full Version : Early Christmas Tool Gloat, part 2:



Doc Nickel
10-23-2009, 06:36 AM
In addition to the leg vise and shaper vise (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=37245), I also just got these three new import mill vises:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/import-vises.jpg

Now, while I've been a vocal supporter of these vises- at least the good ones, and I know quality is highly variable with Chinese stuff- the roll of the dice didn't come up in my favor with these.

They're not unusable or unsalvageable, but whereas my original 5" (bought from ENCO in 2003) had surprisingly good fit & finish and was very square and flat (though not perfectly so) these three are considerably rougher and notably less well fitted.

The middle one, point in fact, was misassembled, and note that it and the righthand one- both 4" 'locking type' vises from the same ad- are two entirely different products.

So while I'm a bit annoyed, I'd be even moreso had I not- finally- been able to take advantage of ENCO's free shipping. Sort of. :D

I'm sure they're salvageable, with some work, but I can no longer quite so easily recommend these.

On a lighter note, I also finally picked up some new CGW wheels for my 12x2" Queen City pedestal grinder:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/queencity-complete.jpg

This was another one of those situations where I wasn't particularly looking forward to spending $90 in shipping for a $60 wheel. These? More free shipping- in a roundabout way. :D

Doc.

rockrat
10-23-2009, 10:24 AM
You are a sick sick man, gloating about all that good stuff.

Your penance will be to make something cool and gloat about it. :)

Looks as though your grinder is up and running well. A grinder is one of those things that I just cant seem to have enough of. One has a light wire brush and a scotch bright wheel on it. Another has a heavy wire wheel and a buffer. Another has coarse and fine wheels. A fourth is set up with tooling wheels. And the last one is being set up for a set of snag wheels for tearing it all up, and taking my arm off with it.

As for the heard of vices that you are caring for, if they are found for cheap, they might be just the thing for the shop. I cant seem to get enough of them either.

rock~

Doc Nickel
10-23-2009, 07:35 PM
You are a sick sick man, gloating about all that good stuff.

-So far it's all been stuff I bought. I haven't even gotten to the bonus stuff yet. :D


Your penance will be to make something cool and gloat about it.

-I'm sure trying. In between trying to resurrect or upgrade half the machines in the shop, I'm trying (and at the moment failing) to keep up on customer work. Fixing the machines is about my only "for myself" work I get right now.


A grinder is one of those things that I just cant seem to have enough of.

-I now have thirteen grinders of various sorts in the shop. That doesn't even count the handheld stuff like the angle grinders, air grinders or the Dremels.


As for the heard of vices that you are caring for, if they are found for cheap, they might be just the thing for the shop. I cant seem to get enough of them either.

-I have sixteen vises now. :D And I still need to get some of those little toolmaker's insert vises for the surface grinder...

Doc.

rockrat
10-23-2009, 09:58 PM
-I have sixteen vises now. :D And I still need to get some of those little toolmaker's insert vises for the surface grinder...

Doc.

Tool makers insert vise? Like this?
http://www.victornet.com/productimages/135.jpg

rock~

Oldguy
10-23-2009, 10:29 PM
Doc -

Those mill vises are like Chinese machine tools - a kit. I've bought two from Enco ( a 4" and a 5") and both have needed to go through the surface grinder to be accurate. I'm guessing that they're machined about the time the cast iron cools to the point that it can be handled with asbestos gloves. Anyway, they're usable now and are the right size for my machines.

Glenn

Doc Nickel
10-24-2009, 07:01 AM
Tool makers insert vise? Like this?

-That's the one. Occasionally I work on some pretty small parts, and the regular 5" vise is a bit overkill. Plus, as I said, they're also useful for the surface grinder- say, to grind the edge of a thin part.


Those mill vises are like Chinese machine tools - a kit. I've bought two from Enco ( a 4" and a 5") and both have needed to go through the surface grinder to be accurate.

-Agreed. I just rebuilt the middle "misassembled" one this evening. The round "bearing" that does the Kurt-style jaw holddown had slipped out of place when it was assembled. Easy fix, but I took the time to freshen it up completely.

I'll have a short writeup of that tomorrow, but suffice to say the quality has gone down a bit- the casting has lots of porosity.

The first 5" version I got back in '03, was actually surprisingly flat and square. When I finally put it on a surface plate (in preparation for surface grinding) it was only something like .0015" high on one corner.

The jaws were concave/convex by about the same amount, and too hard to mill- I killed an endmill trying to take a light cleanup pass. I eventually swapped those out with some soft jaws made from hot roll steel.

I figure once I have my surface grinder up and running (not too long, if all goes well) I'll dress these up a tad. As I said, I'll probably "match" the two 5" vises- or even both pairs- so I'll be able to use 'em to hold long parts, if necessary.

Doc.

oldtiffie
10-24-2009, 07:28 AM
-That's the one. Occasionally I work on some pretty small parts, and the regular 5" vise is a bit overkill. Plus, as I said, they're also useful for the surface grinder- say, to grind the edge of a thin part.



-Agreed. I just rebuilt the middle "misassembled" one this evening. The round "bearing" that does the Kurt-style jaw holddown had slipped out of place when it was assembled. Easy fix, but I took the time to freshen it up completely.

I'll have a short writeup of that tomorrow, but suffice to say the quality has gone down a bit- the casting has lots of porosity.

The first 5" version I got back in '03, was actually surprisingly flat and square. When I finally put it on a surface plate (in preparation for surface grinding) it was only something like .0015" high on one corner.

The jaws were concave/convex by about the same amount, and too hard to mill- I killed an endmill trying to take a light cleanup pass. I eventually swapped those out with some soft jaws made from hot roll steel.

I figure once I have my surface grinder up and running (not too long, if all goes well) I'll dress these up a tad. As I said, I'll probably "match" the two 5" vises- or even both pairs- so I'll be able to use 'em to hold long parts, if necessary.

Doc.

You've done very well for yourself Doc. Congratulations.

Those small "Tool-makers" vices are excellent. I got mine from LMS or CDCO Tools (forget which) - one is "normal" and the other is a "sine" vice.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise2.jpg

Put them on a tilting table/angle-plate and use a standard (0.10 degree = 6 arc minutes) protractor to set the vice or the table and you have a very nice multi-angle vice:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise6.jpg

Just like this one (PITA to set up but otherwise OK):
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise9.jpg

Those small vices are very accurate. And for the "Anti-China brigade", I've run a couple - but not all checks - against this spec sheet for them. Those are very good results:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Vise1.jpg

The moving jaw has an excellent "hold in/pull down" facility due to the "angled" jaw thread. It really does work well.

I hardly use my "sine" vise as the setting with the protractor is more than good enough most times as 0.10 degree is 0.00175" per inch and sine bars become less accurate as the angle increases - the more so at 45 degrees and above.