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oddball racing
11-08-2009, 01:49 PM
http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m323/lightningale/Copyof100_0026.jpg[/IMG]

I couldn't find the old "shop screw-ups" thread but had to share.:eek:

Mill sat on maple moving dolly for who knows how long, over a year I know that. Jacked it up off the dolly set it down on some 4X6 PT blocks and went up stairs for dinner. about twenty minutes later the whole house rumbled with a REALLY BIG............THuNK!

One of the 4X6s split across the grain and made the machine list a "tad' too much.

lynnl
11-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Well ..., I guess that's an appropriate title for this thread.
But not exactly what I expected. :)

At least no one was hurt.

gnm109
11-08-2009, 03:32 PM
Holy cow! And that's only a regular-sized. If that was my Webb, there would be a hole in the floor. It's 3,500 pounds.

I'm glad you weren't anywhere near it when that happened. It's a lesson to all of us when moving such heavy machines.

Ha. When I saw the title of the thread, I thought somone had come up with a cool new modification for a Bridgeport that I could spend some more money on.

:)

TGTool
11-08-2009, 03:49 PM
Oddball,

I'm glad you're okay, but there's a tear running down my cheek for machine parts underneath.

dockrat
11-08-2009, 04:27 PM
OUCH!!:eek:

wierdscience
11-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Well two things-

#1 It's a perfect example of the difference between a furniture dolly and a machinery dolly.

#2 Now is a great time to add a coolant sump in the bottom.

quadrod
11-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Oh man that sucks. I hate to ask but was the table already slid over or did it get a rapid adjust over in the fall?

motorcyclemac
11-08-2009, 04:47 PM
Well...

I always wondered what the casting looked like under a BP mill. Now I know...thanks!

It looks as if it stripped the threads out of the table nut. Did it shove that table to the left when it fell?

Oooof...the damage... It is fixable...but...it is just money.

This is one reason I never trust wood. When it comes to supports for anything...over build..and use too much material... Think steel.

Glad you weren't standing near by when it fell...you may have been killed.

Cheers
Mac.

motorcyclemac
11-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Hey...

I keep looking at this picture... Letting it all soak in.

What the heck is that up on top of the shelving ...that looks like a fire?

Is there some sort of open flame heater running up there ?!?!

Cheers
Mac.

Mcgyver
11-08-2009, 05:36 PM
wow, glad no one was hurt. what is PT; what was it sitting on that let go?....ah ball just dropped, pressure treated. there's the problem, softwood, good for nuthin PT :(

oddball racing
11-08-2009, 06:44 PM
MCM: You just made me take a trip downstairs to see what was "on fire" in the pic. I had never noticed it before. Turns out it is a reflection of the light of the wood-shop half of the shop's pinkish-orange insulation.

As to the damage, yes we did have a "rapid traverse of the table" to the left.

Over a year before, I had brought it to the basement down the bulk-head stairs. In the process I had removed the table and the head "just in case" so it didn't get bumped by anything. After putting the table back on I decided to retrofit a single phase motor to the BP housing rather than buy a VFD.
So the head was spared any damage by not being on the machine.

As to the table, the hand crank broke it's handle and bent it's ball end.
That in turn pushed the lead-screw through the cross nut breaking the little retainer and 6-32 screw keeping the cross/split nut intact by allowing it to slide on the key, then the whole shaft punched the bearing and it's retainer right out through the table end cap.

Parts to replace: 1) handcrank, 1) 6-32 screw, make a little retainer gizmo(20 mins.) Make a new bearing retainer out of Aluminum because thats all it had well, that took an hour or so. Then I spent another half hour with the dial indicator and the vee blocks on the screw. Other that that, on the crashed down side of the machine was an electrial box that pretty much sacrificed itself to provide some "cushion" for the crash.

I also wacked a big dent in my pride.:o

MTNGUN
11-08-2009, 07:04 PM
Thanks for sharing. Moving machine tools is challenging.

lazlo
11-08-2009, 07:43 PM
That in turn pushed the lead-screw through the cross nut breaking the little retainer and 6-32 screw keeping the cross/split nut intact by allowing it to slide on the key, then the whole shaft punched the bearing and it's retainer right out through the table end cap.

That had to have bent the leadscrew. :(

You can actually find the Bridgeport leadscrews on Ebay for not a large sum of money.

clutch
11-08-2009, 07:59 PM
Damn, I feel for you. That had to be a real ah sh*t moment. A few years ago, real riggers face planted our new Chiron VMC while moving it 18 inches. In the following years the maintenance crew has moved it just fine all over the shop, our score riggers 0 Maintenance 4. ;)

As earlier mentioned, your screw maybe screwed. May or may not be a biggie. I have a new screw waiting for me to find time to install it since a failure (since fixed) knife edged it in middle of travel do to a bad oiler.

I'm hoping the adjustment screws for backlash let go, nut retaining screws if not split, before you bent the acme screw.

You didn't get hurt nor did a loved one, so count your blessings.

Clutch

Carld
11-08-2009, 08:04 PM
I'm surprised that cheap dolly held that 2000+ lb mill up for so long. I can't believe you could even move the mill around on it.

As to the boards breaking that you put it on, I am having trouble picturing in my mind how the boards were stacked so they would be able to collapse.

Every time I move a machine and especially mine I am extremely careful. It don't take much to tip over these top heavy machines.

rockrat
11-08-2009, 08:44 PM
There is a good point to be made here. I learned it a year or so ago with nearly a similar result. Oddball racing, you reminded me of it.

Dont just trust a piece of wood because it is new or you had it laying around. While this may not be the exact issue that oddball had, I was using a 4x4 as a span for a light lift of about 5 foot. Everything looked good but then I started to hear noise from the lumber that I didnt like. Before I got done the thing cracked and woke me up.

A closer study of the lumber showed a poor choice of wood for the lift. The grain ran horizontal for a while then turned upward. That was where the split happened.

On a side note, I saw a program on tv that talked about how a persons perception increases under emergency/adrenalin situations. A box that displayed a given flashing number was set to flash at a rate that a person could not see the number. The person preformed a bungee jump and during the fall, with all the adrenalin running, he was able to see the number. They did it a few times and changed the number as a test and he was able to produce the number each time.

I can only imagine the numbers running through your head when you heard it go down. Sorry about the fall, I hope that you can recover the mill without much work.

rock~

scatter cat
11-08-2009, 08:50 PM
Glad you are ok and there wasn't to much damage.Were the blocks you were using short? I have used pressure treated 4x4 and 6x6 without a problem usually a piece 2 ft or longer.

whitis
11-10-2009, 03:52 PM
#1 It's a perfect example of the difference between a furniture dolly and a machinery dolly.


Look again. The furniture dolly was not responsible for the fall. Not only that, after successfully completing its part of the move it appears to have absorbed some of the impact when the Bridgeport fell over and landed on it and appears to still (as of the time of the pic) be supporting much of the weight of the Bridgeport even after impact. With surprisingly little damage to the dolly visible in the picture. One caster looks slightly bent and it looks like the left crossmember may have broken on impact. With a more rigid heavier duty dolly, the outcome might have been worse in this case.

Rather than being maligned, the furniture dolly in this particular case deserves a medal for service above and beyond the call of duty.

Of course, a typical furniture dolly of that construction is only rated around 900-1000lbs. (and that probably evenly distributed) and that looks to be about a 1200lb machine. During the move, the base of the bridgeport would probably have concentrated the weight near the casters with less beam load on the wood which looks less than adequate.

I am guessing that the wood block that failed was only supporting one edge of the base casting rather than two edges at the corner; in the latter case it probably would have held even if the wood split. Not good to have the weight of a thin edge running parallel to the grain of the wood as your only support.

OP: sorry about the accident. It appears that you were lucky, though. No one was hurt and it appears the damage was relatively minor and repairable. Check for cracks in the stress areas (corners) of the dovetails, though.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=190423&highlight=arboga
Thanks for sharing.

Black_Moons
11-10-2009, 04:51 PM
As a random afterthough, my favorate industral dolly for moving my machines around, is the 'box' base section of my engine dolly, without the two long legs, it has 4 industral casters all by itself, I know the thing is rated for 2 tons at least as the entire dolly is made outta like 2" square tubing and the engine hoist itself is rated for 2 tons.

Only problem is it is a little bit small

oldtiffie
11-10-2009, 04:59 PM
If it were me, I'd be bloody pleased I didn't punch a hole in or badly crack the slab.

I'd forget the mill if needs be and junk it and get another one.

Sometimes you just have to "swallow" your pride and the costs and "move on".

It could have been a lot worse and may well be a cheaper lesson - and a better one - than it might other-wise have been.

Alistair Hosie
11-10-2009, 05:27 PM
Lucky there were no children around.Sorry to hear of your frightful problems.Alistair

Too_Many_Tools
11-10-2009, 06:42 PM
MCM: You just made me take a trip downstairs to see what was "on fire" in the pic. I had never noticed it before. Turns out it is a reflection of the light of the wood-shop half of the shop's pinkish-orange insulation.

As to the damage, yes we did have a "rapid traverse of the table" to the left.

Over a year before, I had brought it to the basement down the bulk-head stairs. In the process I had removed the table and the head "just in case" so it didn't get bumped by anything. After putting the table back on I decided to retrofit a single phase motor to the BP housing rather than buy a VFD.
So the head was spared any damage by not being on the machine.

As to the table, the hand crank broke it's handle and bent it's ball end.
That in turn pushed the lead-screw through the cross nut breaking the little retainer and 6-32 screw keeping the cross/split nut intact by allowing it to slide on the key, then the whole shaft punched the bearing and it's retainer right out through the table end cap.

Parts to replace: 1) handcrank, 1) 6-32 screw, make a little retainer gizmo(20 mins.) Make a new bearing retainer out of Aluminum because thats all it had well, that took an hour or so. Then I spent another half hour with the dial indicator and the vee blocks on the screw. Other that that, on the crashed down side of the machine was an electrial box that pretty much sacrificed itself to provide some "cushion" for the crash.

I also wacked a big dent in my pride.:o


Good to see that you are okay.

I would recommend that you also build some machinery dollys while the event is still fresh in your mind.

The worst thing you can do is not learn from the accident.

I would also recommend hanging a picture of this accident up in your shop as a reminder to be careful in the future.

TMT

oil mac
11-10-2009, 06:42 PM
Oddball,
Thank God you and your family escaped serious injury or death,Some years ago, i went to retrieve some equipment from a small workshop, The poor guy who owned it was moving a milling machine alone one evening & it also came over on him, fortunately a workbench saved his life, Even so he was trapped by his leg for about two hours, before he managed to free himself, by superhuman effort, During this time he was in terror of the damned thing coming over further, and crushing the life out of him, The experience put him of machinery for life
When moving tall machinery in a restricted area, like my home shop, I must confess to prefering to slide the machine on two or more greasy plates (about 1/4" thick x 4" broad, using either a pinch bar or Yale (come -along ) as motive power, Using plates it has in the case of tall or top heavy machines virtually no distance to fall, The older i get, tall machines give me the creeps, when they are being moved, and i have one to help move shortly with a friend
Sorry about your machine hope you can repair it, We have all had close shaves on occasions, Care & Caution is essential.

wierdscience
11-10-2009, 07:34 PM
Look again. The furniture dolly was not responsible for the fall. Not only that, after successfully completing its part of the move it appears to have absorbed some of the impact when the Bridgeport fell over and landed on it and appears to still (as of the time of the pic) be supporting much of the weight of the Bridgeport even after impact. With surprisingly little damage to the dolly visible in the picture. One caster looks slightly bent and it looks like the left crossmember may have broken on impact. With a more rigid heavier duty dolly, the outcome might have been worse in this case.

Rather than being maligned, the furniture dolly in this particular case deserves a medal for service above and beyond the call of duty.

Of course, a typical furniture dolly of that construction is only rated around 900-1000lbs. (and that probably evenly distributed) and that looks to be about a 1200lb machine. During the move, the base of the bridgeport would probably have concentrated the weight near the casters with less beam load on the wood which looks less than adequate.

I am guessing that the wood block that failed was only supporting one edge of the base casting rather than two edges at the corner; in the latter case it probably would have held even if the wood split. Not good to have the weight of a thin edge running parallel to the grain of the wood as your only support.

.

Uh,actually I don't think so.The dolly was either involved or about to be involved,I don't think he needed it for a trip hazard.I could be wrong,but there isn't any good use for that dolly in moving anything more than funiture of which the room seems devoid.

The dolly pictured? Try 300-400lb rating,not even close to enough,not even in a static condition.

Accidents happen,at least he is alive and un-injured(except for his pride) to learn from it as are we.

In the past 18 years+ of moving machinery I have seen a lot go wrong.What looks safe isn't always so.

Carld
11-10-2009, 07:51 PM
Yes, he said he removed it from the dolly and had it on pressure treated boards that broke under the load. The dolly was not at fault but it is amazing it sat on that dolly for as long as it did without falling over.

whitis
11-11-2009, 12:26 AM
Uh,actually I don't think so.The dolly was either involved or about to be involved,I don't think he needed it for a trip hazard.I could be wrong,but there isn't any good use for that dolly in moving anything more than funiture of which the room seems devoid.

The dolly pictured? Try 300-400lb rating,not even close to enough,not even in a static condition.


Post hoc ergo proctor hoc? In this particular case, the dolly was not the cause of the accident, even though the dolly had been used to move the BP earlier and the mill had sat on the dolly for over a year prior to that without incident. But the mill only lasted around 20 minutes sitting on some wood blocks.

The one I have, a common big box store retail item, which looks very similar to the one in the pic is rated 900lbs. Which seems to be fairly typical. Even the inferior models of that type seem to be rated for 600lbs or 300kg (660lb). The Harbor Fright $20 version is rated for 1000lbs. There are some dollies with 200lb and 300lb capacity, but they don't resemble the one in the picture.

Unfortunately, the wood blocks were removed from the scene of the crime before the photo was taken. Meanwhile, the dolly is in the picture to get blamed even though it couldn't both be under the base of the bridgeport before the tip over and in the fall zone at the same time.
I guess the mill was just so frustrated that the cheap furniture dolly had frustrated its attempts to lie down for over a year and exploited the weakness of the wood blocks to give it a good pounding. :-)

But even with a round ram bridgeport it was probably about 1/3 over its rated capacity. In that nether region of safety margins where one shouldn't be too surprised if it goes either way.

Furniture dollies of that style have a variety of uses besides moving furniture but using one to move or park even the smallest Bridgeport Mill would seem to be pushing one's luck a bit.