Slightly OT - Shotgun Slugs

[lynnl]

Not really a smithing question, but just a curiosity matter.

In a novel I just finished, the author, who is a Vietnam vet, describes the main character's purchase of a box of buckshot and a box of deer slugs, as a self defense precaution, to be used in an expensive, Italian made skeet/trap gun (double barrel).

My question is, how feasible is the idea of shooting slugs in a barrel not made for rifled slugs? I'd assume they would fit in the chamber. But would they rattle around down through the barrel, or jam up? Or would it work ok, except just without the rifling for stability.

[Highpower]

They work just fine, and have worked for many decades. :)

[lynnl]

Why then buy a separate rifled slug barrel?
Is it just more effective, or accurate?

While I have 4 shotguns, I've never shot any slugs, or even seen any for that matter.

[JCHannum]

Rifled slugs have a hollow skirt that expands from the pressure of the charge to follow the contour of the barrel. They will decrease in diameter when forced through the choke. The slug is rifled which imparts a spin on the slug for stability. It is not as effective as if the barrel were to be rifled, but does assist.

The rifled slug barrel is a different animal in that it does have rifling and uses a different style of slug, using a sabot. These are more aerodynamic and lighter, giving better penetration, increased accuracy and longer range.

[smiller6912]

A 500 grain slug at 1200 FPS is going to be plenty of stopping power for a personal defence round. These are commonly used for deer and are quite effective at short to medium range.

[Rusty Marlin]

True shotgun slugs, aka, the rifled slug, foster slug and Brenekie are all drag stabilized like a pellet, or an arrow. Weight forward, with a hollow base and long side skirt. The grooves do impart a slow spin but its not fast enough to gyroscopically stabilize the projectile. All these slugs will shot just fine through a smooth bore shotgun with or without chokes, but they shoot best through cylinder bore guns.

[Highpower]

Another view...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

[mcskipper]

00 Buckshot is generally 9-aprox.38 caliber balls.
Very good for close-up.

Slug would be better for longer range.

[motorcyclemac]

Shotgun slugs are often misunderstood and underestimated. The skirted lead slug traditionally sold by Remington, Federal and Winchester etc. is really an impressive round. The lead slug shot from any barrel length and or choke is capable of some SERIOUS destructive effect. I can tell you from person experience that the lead slug will penetrate better than most anticipate. While it doesn't seem that something that big and blunt would be good at poking holes..it certainly is. It will break large animal shoulders with one shot. It will penetrate steel sheet with some limitations. It will disable engines with one well placed shot. It will also cleanly punch thru a level 3 police vest with little effort or drama. The slug is quite the monster.

It gets better though. The sabot slug who's projectile is wrapped in a segmented plastic sleeve is even more impressive. Some are shaped like an hour glass where others are much more like a rifle bullet. Remington manufactures a .50 caliber hollow pointed solid copper slug that is extremely amazing when it comes to penetration of solid objects. It is quite impressive on massive animals shoulders

On most shotguns I shoot slugs in, I prefer the 20 inch barrel with sights. You CAN shoot them in any barrel but it is my preference to use a 20 for slugs and 00 buck. My preference comes from the fact that a 20 inch barrel matches up perfectly with the 8 round magazine tube extension on the Remington 870.

I have a fully rifled 20" barrel for the 870 model pump. It does work well to stabilize slugs. It has been my experience that the rifled barrel will reduce the group size by half @ 50 yards.

I am a HUGE fan of the 12 bore pump, auto, single or double. I own several and if given the option of only having 1 gun...it might just be that. They are very good weapons that offer a lot of options to the user.

Cheers
Mac.

[lynnl]

I'd totally forgotten about the sabot loads. Now I remember reading about that in the distant past.

Thanks all for the education. There's a lot more to it than I was perceiving. :D

I have a Remington 870, 12ga. I really like that gun, and used to do some reloading, but just for upland birds and waterfowl.
Haven't really done much shooting in the last 15 yrs or so, other than one dove shoot. Just so much hassle finding land to hunt.

[Dawai]

Brennick alloy sabot rounds? (spelling??) I had a box full of them, they drilled a clean hole in auto bodies, both sides.. normal slugs penetrated one side and rattled around inside. Yeah I shot a few cars to see what they'd do.. old scrappers I bought for engine-transmissions.

Shooting a 50 caliber BMG, well it dented much like a saucer and hole in middle, whereas the 12 ga slug made a clean hole like you drilled it with slighter deformation of metal??

on the box, it said police use only.. blue rounds. if that means anything. I may have one or two left around somewheres.. old thou.. may or may not fire anymore.. can you still buy them?

[mcskipper]

Best advise I can give.

Get only one brand and type of slug.
Each brand & type will fly to a different point of impact.

There are low recoil slugs out there if the kick is too high.
Remember you need to pock the hole first. Tons of power will do you no good if you miss.

Standard smoothbore shotgun is generally a 50 yard gun.
Rifled barrel will take it to 100 yards with Remington Sluggers.

The buck a bang stuff may go to 150 yards with the right shooter & gun.

[gary350]

Not really a smithing question, but just a curiosity matter.

In a novel I just finished, the author, who is a Vietnam vet, describes the main character's purchase of a box of buckshot and a box of deer slugs, as a self defense precaution, to be used in an expensive, Italian made skeet/trap gun (double barrel).

My question is, how feasible is the idea of shooting slugs in a barrel not made for rifled slugs? I'd assume they would fit in the chamber. But would they rattle around down through the barrel, or jam up? Or would it work ok, except just without the rifling for stability.


A skeet/trap gun has a modified choke barrel. What the shooter wants is a 30" to 36" pattern at 50 yards. If the gun is a true skeet/trap gun both barrels may or may not be modified it demends on the shooter. You get off the first shot then by the time you get off the second shot the target is farther away so typically the second barrels has a tighter choke. Most cheap double barrels are the same way, modified on the first barrel and a tighter choke on the second barrel. Shotgun slugs are made of soft lead that is pure lead so it can conform to the diameter of the barrel. The slug is cup shaped and it expands when it is shot. The barrel tapers down smaller all the way to the choke and choke is smaller too. The slug has to change shape as it travels down the barrel. If you shoot a LOT of slugs in a FULL CHOKE gun I have seen the very tip end of gun barrels split and crack only at the very tip end. Some shotguns are slug guns and many shooters that do a lot of slug shooting buy slug guns just for shooting only slugs. But you can shoot slugs in any shotgun.

[madokie]

there are frangible slugs also,that breakup on impact into 3 pieces,so as not to over penetrate,which most slugs will do.RIO (spain)makes them, try ammo to go.poly-wad makes Quick-shok.both are 12 ga.both are magnum loads also,RIO makes low recoil slug , dont know who carries it .

[johnl]

I think that there is probably a good argument for the use of #4 buck for self defense. True, it is smaller than 00, about 24 or 25 cal, but you got 27 of those in each round
John L

[madokie]

yes its true some people recommend #4 buck,mel tappin did in his book survival guns(1976)25 yds or less. the idea back then was with 00 you stand a good chance of missing your target at 25 yds, but with #4 you will land some hits.today we have better loads that shoot 4-8 inch patterns of 00 at 25 yds, and will land some hits of 00 out to 50yds.#4 pellets are very light,20 grains,00 is 54 grains,from 25-50 yds either one is really more a wounder than killer.slug is called for 25-150 yds and rifle sights on barrel too.self defence means different things to everyone based on where they live,apartment,house in city, ranch in country,10yds or less(in the home)#4 buck is fine birdshot is not.is spreads out too fast and tiny pellets.apartment dewellers may have to use birdshot if others live in apart,use tight choke, light on gun and dont miss.if you have to shoot some thing for self defence outdoors at close range, you cannot use birdshot or light ammo. you have to use ammo that will stop with one shot, that may be the only good shot you get.dogs and such are tough animals & #4 buck may not stop with one shot,dogs run in packs you may have only one shot per vermin,and that one shot better stop with one shot. if you live out in country & have coyote problem,shooting them with #4 buck 25 yds or longer is fine if you dont have rifle.you will score some hits & vermin will die from lead poisoning.