Truck frame help

[Bazz]

Need your help with my truck frame


My truck has only 8000 kilometers last Saturday i was ram in the rear and now I have a bent frame my insurance company is willing to pay for fixing the frame but I think that i am entitled to a new frame since I bough the new replacement value policy

I have to prepare myself to face the insurance company in court

Here is where you guys can help

I need to know what is the alloy the frame is made with (Ford)
share some of your experience with fix bent frame ,bad or good

The frame was bent in the accident and probably will be bent back to a so call original shape
how much strength did the frame loose if is it going to work harden and crack in a near future ?

If you have link or fact that can be concerning about frame repare Please comment

I know there's a lot of smart people here and can't wait to see what your thinking

Thank you

[daveo]

It depends how bad it is bent. If its minor, fix it, beats the hell out of completely disassembling your truck..... I worked in bodyshops for years. Find a quality shop and you will get a quality repair.

[gnm109]

My 1998 Dodge Daota was hit in the rear by a drunken fool right after I bought it. It ruined the tailgate deck and rear bumper. The body shop I went to has a standard procedure on pickups with this type of collision. They remove the bed and take the truck to a specialized frame shop nearby that uses laser testing. Upoon check, my frame wasn't damaged but I was assured that it could have been straightened if it were needed. It drives nicely after the bed was replaced with the new tailgate deck and bumper.

I could be wrong and I don't know how your insurance policy is drafted but I always thought that full replacement value only operated when the vehcle was totalled. Then, they give you enough for a new car.

I'd be willing to bet that replacing the frame on a vehicle such as yours would cost more than replacement value on the vehicle, assuming that you could even find a new spare frame. It's an incrredible amount of labor. JMO.


.

[Bguns]

Local body shop years ago told me that if a very new truck, and frames are still coming off production line... That the frames were reasonably priced < 1,000.00 US. Labor is the big part of course.

Just because frame is bent does not mean a proper repair can't be done.

Each case is an individual of course... someones bent description could be a mild rack, bow, twist, or downright mangled...

[Black_Moons]

Yea it all depends on how bad it is and how its fixed. Try and get the truck on a lift and see the damage for yourself, (Brake shops often have a lift and will let you see under the truck if your getting work done, Even though they all have signs saying do not enter work area yadayadayada, most still let you, id recommend staying out from under your car however or they might get nervous.

If its bent so far something buckled, massive amounts of strength is lost, and likey can't really be made straight again with anywhere near its origional strength. iv bent small folded/stamped sheet metal things back into shape after they buckled and they where never remotely as strong as all the stress consentrates at the weak point.

Of course, if you weld another big chunk of steel over that, it might turn out stronger then origional.. Or might cause new stress points that fail.. and cause your truck to be heavyer.

Or maybe a beam gets choped right out and a new one welded in its place. That could be near origional strength if done right.. maybe not since it could be very hard to weld back into place with the rest of the car in the way.. Or maybe better if it was a thicker/stronger peice of steel with a deticated welder who knew just what he was doing, Iv heard and seen of some awful robotic welds (from improperly set up robotic welders), so its even possable he could weld the exact same size metal in better then what was origionaly there.

On the other hand, if its a few degrees of bend, that can be twisted back into shape with little loss of strength.

[torker]

You would be amazed at what can be accomplished on a good frame straightening machine.
I've straightened more than a few front clips on stock cars that have hit the wall at 80 mph.
Yep...sometimes metal is deformed past an acceptable level...but you just cut that out and replace that section from a scrap clip.
Your frame is full of locator holes that are put there for the frame guy to use to make sure all is square and level.
On your full frame truck...I believe 1/4" out of whack is still the accepted limit.
It's all very easy to measure up on a proper frame machine.
A badly twisted up frame can be made as close to perfect as time will allow.

A factory Icar type manual will have all the measurements that have to be made at the reference points in each model of car or truck.
And yes...the hi alloy frames can be welded.
Most body shops don't have guys who are qualified to weld the stuff so often the cars/trucks are written off.

[gda]

My dad was a bodyman, and I grew up in shops. We used to also buy totaled cars and repair them to sell. Cars get totaled not because they can not be fixed safely, but because it costs too much at shop labor rates to do so.

The frame machines and measuring systems they have today can get your truck back square. All pulls should be done cold. If the pull is put on correctly (in the opposite dirrection that if got stuffed) you would be amazed how easy some of it walks out, especially with a few hammer hits to the kinks.

If it was just a light hit and only the back was affected I would rather have it straightened than have somebody disconnect and then re-connect all those hoses, fittings, and wire harness connectors. You know there will be broken tabs from the wire connectors that will someday cause problems.

If they straighten your frame they need to put in an alignment as well.


But none of this answers your original question if the frame is now weaker - or if this will cause a future problem. - It all depends how bad it is bent.

[Carld]

You could probably buy a brand new truck for less than it would cost to replace the frame. Frame straightening works just fine if done by a good frame man.

[Willy]

Without an actual visual inspection I don't believe anyone can give you an accurate answer.
To say the frame is bent is not enough information because it does not indicate how or to what degree the frame is bent.
Is it twisted, are just the frame horns beyond the suspension attachment points bent, is one side longer? These and and a combination of other frame bends are fixable. Bends between suspension attachment point are of course more critical but usually easily fixed in a frame straightening jig.

One of my first jobs many moons ago was working in a frame repair shop replacing suspension components and straightening frame horns along with learning the finer points of measuring and dialing in frames for twist. I learned an awful lot working with people that took their job very seriously.
Techniques and standards are even more stringent now than they were then. In other words I have a lot of confidence in the process...if done correctly.
As in everything, from doctors to lawyers, life is a gamble, but don't loose too much sleep over it.


If a frame needs replacement it usually means the vehicle is beyond repair and it's a write-off. Good work is the key of course and if you have heard good reports about the shop where the repairs are done you can usually expect results that are virtually undetectable.

[bgott]

Newer trucks have boxed hydro- formed frames. I don't know about Ford or GM but I do know that Dodge does not recommend any frame repairs on damage forward of the rear spring hangers. I've read that they sell frame extentions to repair rear frame horn damage.

[Saratoga Bill]

Years ago, I bought a Jeep CJ that rolled. If I remember right, the nose was over 4 inches and down a couple plus rolled. The right rear was down 5 inches. I had a friend do the frame (professional shop) and I did the body. Came out right as I drove it for 2 years before I sold it. A goof shop will have it like new.
Replacement value will generally refer to a totaled vehicle.

Bill

[cuslog]

While I don't doubt that a GOOD repair shop can repair the damage, I don't think anyone has really addressed the OP's concerns (and I don't think I can either).
I think what his concern is; is that he paid for an option in his vehicle insurance policy which (in the case of a new car or truck) if its seriously damaged he gets a new vehicle, not a repaired one.
I believe that here in BC and probably many other provinces / States that once a vehicle has been in a serious accident, that is recorded against the VIN # and anytime that vehicle is sold, the seller must declare its previous collision damage. I'm sure this would hurt the resale value, he paid for extra insurance to protect him from this.
If I had paid for the insurance upgrade, I would be expecting a new vehicle. There may be something in the "fine print" about a milage or time limit or minimum $ of damage before you get a new vehicle though.
Insurance Co's are masters of fine print and wiggling out of paying.

[gnm109]

While I don't doubt that a GOOD repair shop can repair the damage, I don't think anyone has really addressed the OP's concerns (and I don't think I can either).
I think what his concern is; is that he paid for an option in his vehicle insurance policy which (in the case of a new car or truck) if its seriously damaged he gets a new vehicle, not a repaired one.
I believe that here in BC and probably many other provinces / States that once a vehicle has been in a serious accident, that is recorded against the VIN # and anytime that vehicle is sold, the seller must declare its previous collision damage. I'm sure this would hurt the resale value, he paid for extra insurance to protect him from this.
If I had paid for the insurance upgrade, I would be expecting a new vehicle. There may be something in the "fine print" about a milage or time limit or minimum $ of damage before you get a new vehicle though.
Insurance Co's are masters of fine print and wiggling out of paying.


There are vehicles that are seriously damaged and which are repaired and then there are vehicles that are totalled and which are scrapped. If his vehicle is found not to be economically repairable, they will scrap it and, according to what he tells us about the insurance, he will get a new vehicle.

Not all damaged vehicles are totalled, but you already know that.

[rockrat]

For what it is worth....

Had a buddy wreck his bothers truck in 1995 or 96. It was a 1995 Ram 4x4, hit in the front, looked bad. Insurance wanted to straighten the frame. He called Dodge and after much conversation they told him that the frame would not stay aligned after a frame straightening due to the vibratory stress relieving that the vehicle would see over time as it drove down the road.

He fought the insurance company for a while but he did win. They replaced the frame and he was happy. Who he called I dont know. What the exact conversation was, I wasn't there. I just remember seeing the guy with a new frame under his truck. Truth or bribe? How knows.

I have heard horror stories about people with wrecked cars that never drove right again or always rubbed a tire wrong causing new tires to go bad over the course of 2 years.

If this does you any good, its all yours.

rock~

[MickeyD]

Years back I ran over a couple of telephone poles in an 83' Chevy 4x4 pickup. Got them both with the left frame rail, tore the bumper in half and the bumper mount ended up touching the master cylinder. Besides the front clip and radiator, the only other real damage was the frame. A friend's father owned a body shop with a big frame jig and he managed to pull it back to where everything lined up. We boxed the rails to give it a little support, and I drove it for another four or five years without problems on that end. I actually managed to break the frame later in the back over the wheel arches (a hay fork and wet heavy bales) and we welded and added a reinforcing plate and never had any more problems on that end. Truck frames are surprisingly forgiving and easy to fix when you do damage them.

[cuslog]

There are vehicles that are seriously damaged and which are repaired and then there are vehicles that are totalled and which are scrapped. If his vehicle is found not to be economically repairable, they will scrap it and, according to what he tells us about the insurance, he will get a new vehicle.

Not all damaged vehicles are totalled, but you already know that.

I think there's another possibility (if I understand this type of insurance).
The vehicle in question might not be a total loss but because of the added insurance purchased by the original purchaser of the NEW vehicle, the insurance company assumes ownership of the damaged vehicle, repairs it and sells it for what they can get for a previously damaged vehicle (presumably less than a "virgin" vehicle).
The OP gets a brand new vehicle.

[Bazz]

Thank you all for your help

New Ford truck have hydroformed frame made with aloy steel fixing them is not like the older one .
I have a kink in the wheel arche

Often a kink is work-hardened to to point where the deformation is permanent the only repair for a kinked frame is replacement of the damaged section or a complete frame

A new frame with labor is $13 000. for my Ranger not far from the cost of a new truck

Here a few pic


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Bazzshop/th_IMG_0997.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Bazzshop/?action=view&current=IMG_0997.jpg) http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Bazzshop/th_IMG_0999.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Bazzshop/?action=view&current=IMG_0999.jpg)

[Willy]

I won't claim to be "in the loop" on hydro-formed frame repair procedure, but I do know that Ford does make frame repair sections for it's hydro-formed frames that it deems are field repairable. If Ford does not feel confident that a procedure will result in a structurally sound repair, the frame section is not available.

It appears that your truck could have a kink in a critical area if that section is hydro-formed. I have seen pictures of the 2004 F-150 showing which sections were hydro-formed and which were not, and also which repair frame sections are available from Ford, unfortunately due to time constraints I cannot at this time find them for your particular truck.

I did however find a page from the SAE titled...Design Guidelines for Truck Frame Repairability: Benefits and Necessity (http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2003-01-1246)

An interesting paragraph from this article you should be aware of...



If frame damage is such that sectioning is neither practical nor recommended, either due to the economic value of the vehicle or structural integrity concerns by the manufacturer, respectively, full-frame replacement is usually pursued. However, this solution is not always practical. Currently in several states titling regulations make frame replacement impractical resulting in the disposition of these trucks as total losses.


Not saying your truck is repairable or not, but a little more investigation on your part would be wise. Talk to an unbiased source in the industry, your local Ford dealer would also be a wealth of knowledge.
We already know what your insurance adjuster thinks.

I'm sure your Ford dealer would rather move a new Ranger than a frame section.:D

[Bazz]

Good day

If it ever happen to you here is something that can help you

it is a ruling from the Supreme Court of Tennessee basically saying that if the repair did not bring back the preloss condition of the truck the repair is incomplete or impossible

Most of the case is about the definition of the word repair or restore

My case is all about restoring the property of the material of the frame after it surpassed it elastic capacity
here is a link

http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/S054486.htm

[Willy]

So what did your insurance company say?
I'm certainly not a lawyer, so I gotta ask...

Are they willing to accept a ruling in a court from another country?

Is there some legal precedence that applies here?

[Bazz]

Good day

today I was told that I will be getting a new frame

After asking the frame shop what was the process to repair the property of the metal to bring it back like it was before the accident , they answer all the wrong answer in front of witness, the insurance had no choice

The insurance was baffle , I told them that my Ford dealer body shop was incompetent and same for there adjuster

It took more than 30 days to settle but I won with just a little knowledge of metallurgy :eek:

[Willy]

Hey good for you Bazz, good to see the little guy get some justice.

So if our insurance goes up we can thank you.;)
Just kidding.:D

Seriously though, what level did you have to take this to get some satisfaction.
Enquiriing minds want to know...never know when we may encounter the same situation.

[Doozer]

Did you describe how if you try to get the kinks out of a paper clip that it will never be quite the same again?

Congrats on your win.

--Doozer