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DFMiller
12-24-2009, 10:55 PM
After watching my old Craftsman/ Atlas Power hacksaw work away for 2 & 3/4 hrs today cutting off a piece of 2" 6061 square I think its time to upgrade to a bandsaw. I have another 20 cuts in 2x2 :-)

I think its down to the Busy Bee B1108N 7X12
Or the King 7x12
Or the Grizzly G0561 7x12

Or the next size down
The Grizzly G4030 6 1/2 X 9 1/2
or Busy Bee B2214 6 1/2 x 10

I am not sure what the import duty will be from Grizzly so the King is the most saw for $900.00 Cdn

Any comments on any of the saws. I can drive 30 minutes and pick up the King or the Busy Bee. Its an hour and a bit to get the grizzly.
Thanks
Dave

mechanicalmagic
12-24-2009, 11:21 PM
Personally, I think your big issue is the blade. I use 4 TPI skip tooth in my old 14" Delta wood band saw. Same blade in my 4x6 H/V from HF. 2"x2" Al, is well under 30 seconds on both machines.

DJ

Black_Moons
12-24-2009, 11:50 PM
I looked at similar bandsaws around here before settling on this:
http://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-5-x-6-dual-swivel-metal-bandsaw-387

I have a small shop space so I wanted something compact, if I need to cut something bigger then 5x6" I can have it sawed at metalmart. Or use the oxy/fuel torch or a 8" abrasive cutoff blade in my circular saw if its plate (Both fun!.. But best done outside)

the swivel feature + hydrolic downfeed is what I really liked. the build quality seems nice, oil filled gearbox. strong swivel mechism with very large readout at a wide radius. Did'nt really want the mess of flood coolant and it seemed by far the easyest and cheapest thing to be able to add after the fact anyway.

the stand however sucks, theres no door! wasted space. Im thinking of buying a rolling toolbox and puting the bandsaw ontop. its only 200~lbs so it should'nt overstress a good toolbox too much.

doctor demo
12-25-2009, 01:48 AM
We've got a Griz 10X18 at work that has cut miles of steel, it's about four years old and still thinks like a new saw.
I don't know about the other saws or what duty would be but I like how the Griz is a work horse.

Steve

The Artful Bodger
12-25-2009, 02:01 AM
I have one of the smaller bandsaws which looks very much like the one here
http://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-1-2-hp-3-speed-metal-cutting-bandsaw-386 This is a rather interesting machine in that although it looks like junk close examination shows that the bits that matter are actually quite up to the job for a home shop. Oil filled gear box, three step belt system, solid cast base and frame. They take 1640 x 15 blades (I think) which if I am not mistaken is 64.5" x .5".

The stand should certainly not be used as intended as it is so weak as to be a hazard and the wheels are a laugh! The supplied blades were rubbish but with a good blade and careful setup it is a great performing little machine. According to the nameplate mine was made in Taiwan in 1988.

BWS
12-25-2009, 06:17 AM
Griz 6 1/2 x 9 1/2 here...its also cut ALOT of steel.I need to clean the thing up....again.Not willing to dedicate more space to this tool,I bought the smallest footprint/capacity that would work.Pretty much the opposite of most.......have a huge gas axe for anything bigger.Will say that I still could NOT live with out our portaband.BW

A synopsis

Portaband

Nice medium sized O/A

Hor. bandsaw that fits space/cap. requirement.

Med. sized vert. bandsaw

Black_Moons
12-25-2009, 06:27 AM
Heh, my portaband is what drove me to buying a bigger bandsaw!
got the portaband at princess auto for like $30, very nice tool! Little hard to make a straight cut, but it will cut just about anything

Gotta shorten 100 steaks? brraaappp just slice through the entire pack as someone holds em.

UHMW blocks? no problem! aluminum? no problem! threaded rod? even leaves a decent finish you can thread onto without whiping out the triangular file.. Would'nt try it on grade 8 bolt though.

BWS
12-25-2009, 06:36 AM
Being computer challenged,can't post pics...........I welded a 1 1/2" or so pc of 1x1 angle to the portaband's little support thingy,effectivly making a "table".The saw pops right into a vise and makes a dandy little detail vert BS..........being too lazy to walk over to bigger vert.Actually welded it on years ago for some job and never needed to hack it off,clip a springy clamp on trigger.BW

airsmith282
12-25-2009, 07:39 AM
the busy bee saws are very good

the king saws are junk and way over priced mostof kings tools are garbadge thats over priced,

so far the tools and stuff that king has that is decent and worth the moeny is the 9000 watt generators and chop saws are very impressive, their drill press's are ok other then that not impressed with their other stuff,

grizzle i know nothing what i have heard of and not alot is good about the grizzle stuff about equle to HF from what i been told.

i would have sudgest detla or dewalt a few years back , back then there stuff was increadiable over priced but aweome machines, i have a 16 inch drill press and a few other goddies made by delta and dewalt and they are sweet, even my band saw is an older delta and it rules and it dont just cut wood its also a vertical metal band saw as well and works really well for me,

DFMiller
12-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback so far.
I have some experience with the smaller saws and the stands are total junk and more importantly rather dangerous. That is why I was thinking the larger ones worked better. I have a small shop but used to stepping around and over things.


The Kings versus Busy Bee debate is interesting as some friends have Kings and they are happy. Of course Grizzly and BB are usually identical to the family connection. :-)

I will await more feedback.
BTW Merry Christmas to all and have a great day.
Dave

lazlo
12-25-2009, 11:56 AM
I would go with the 7 x 12. Like any machine tool, you're always wishing it was just a little bit bigger.

After that, your choice is Chinese or Taiwanese. All the models you listed are Chinese, and will be nearly identical. Grizzly has the G0561 with a Free Shipping special right now.

The Taiwanese versions (Wilton/Jet et al) are quite a bit more expensive, and very well-made.

MickeyD
12-25-2009, 02:29 PM
If you mostly cut aluminum look at a dry cut saw or even a wood miter saw with a non-ferrous blade. I cut a lot of aluminum and a round bladed saw is so much faster, more accurate, and the cuts cleaner than any bandsaw. My big Kaltenbach would cut through that 2x2 6061 in about 5 seconds and leave a very good finish. Even something like a Milwaukee 619020 would do it in something like 15 seconds.

DFMiller
01-09-2010, 12:54 AM
Lazlo,
Thanks for the good idea. I did some looking and all the 7x12's I saw claimed to be made in Taiwan. Strange thing was the Busy Bee one did not have a name plate to prove it.
I ended up have a close look at the General International unit at KMS.
I ended up going for the unit that had a proper Mag control on it.
I have only had the chance to do a trial cut on it. It cut the same piece in less than 3 minutes with a slow speed. Quite and improvement on 2 3/4 hours.
The fit and finish is really good of course. I have a real General wood bandsaw which I really like.

darryl
01-09-2010, 01:05 AM
Now you have to buy only good blades for it- a decent bi-metal one. Some have said they get lots of milage out of a carbon blade, but I never could. Bi-metal blades last me until they either break, or I do something stupid like try cutting hardened things and ruin the teeth. My saw is a 4x6 and wraps the blade too tightly around the small wheels- consequently they develop hundreds of tiny cracks, then one will let go. You shouldn't have that problem with the larger machine.

Cheeseking
01-09-2010, 01:26 AM
Forget all that HF type junk. Get one of these and be happy.
http://www.kooltools.com/bandsaw_ad105s.html
or for a bit more this
http://www.kooltools.com/bandsaw_ev90.html

Black_Moons
01-09-2010, 07:01 AM
darryl: What you need to do is stop buying 0.025" blades, yea I know it probley came with one, but what you really need is a 0.020 blade. 0.025 is a little more common but 0.020 is what you need for right radiuses like those smaller wheels. That or a diffrent style thats more flexable (less hard)

I got a KMStools bandsaw and its nice.. the stand is fail.
It does not even have a door to get inside!!!
Its 'secure' enough, but with only wheels at the back you have to lift 75% of the weight of the saw to move it around the shop.

I think im gonna buy a 6~ drawer 27"x16" toolbox and stick it ontop.

vpt
01-09-2010, 10:11 AM
I have a rong fu 7x12 that is like a billion years old. Use it every day and it still works like new! I absolutely love it! Right now I am working on a qctp and I am using the saw to cut 2.750" steel block. So nice to set it up in the saw set the feed and go to work on something else while the saw does its job! Right now there is a 14 tpi blade on it. Haven't had the need to get a new blade for about 4 years now.

http://www.fraserauction.com/Feb.28%20website%20Jpegs/SHOP%20EQUIPMENT/Rong%20Fu%20metal%20cutting%20bandsaw.jpg

Willy
01-09-2010, 10:22 AM
Congratulations on your new saw, I'm sure you it will give you years of good service.
It's too late perhaps now but the first reply to your original post was probably the the most pertinent answer to your question. However the post by "mechanicalmagic" will still very much apply as well to your new saw.

Originally posted by mechanicalmagic:


Personally, I think your big issue is the blade. I use 4 TPI skip tooth in my old 14" Delta wood band saw. Same blade in my 4x6 H/V from HF. 2"x2" Al, is well under 30 seconds on both machines.

DJ


Three minutes to cut a 2x2 piece of aluminum, while certainly a vast improvement over 2 3/4 hr. is nothing to get excited over. Like mechanicalmagic stated it should be more like 30 seconds.
No one blade is going to perform properly in all situations. Different types of materials and the thickness of those materials will dictate what type of blade is most beneficial to the material being cut.

I'm not sure as to the type of use or material you will putting your new bandsaw to, but the best advice I can give is to do yourself and your saw a favor and seek out the type saw blade and tooth count that is most effective in the material you intend to cut.

DFMiller
01-09-2010, 10:59 AM
Willy and others.
Yes blades are most of it.
I got a 4/5 Simmonds bi metal for it. First thing I did was change blades.
I am sure I can get a faster cut once I adjust the speed the appropriate speed for the blade and the material.
Then I can adjust the hydraulic down-feed to maximize cut.
Then I will really time it. I was guessing on the first cut with new saw.
Thanks
Dave

Steve Seebold
01-09-2010, 11:21 AM
I had a 14 inch Rigid I bought from Home Depot. I changed the big pulley to an 8 inch and added a 1/2 inch 6 tooth blade and for aluminum it worked great and it cost less than $400.00.

RKW
01-09-2010, 02:31 PM
Since others have mentioned Portabands I won't feel too embarrassed to share this. I also added a small table to mine so that it can be reconfigured from chop saw to vertical mode. I made a bracket that allows it to be mounted on the WAY overpriced cast iron base. In any case, it gets used quite a bit and does what I need. I do plan on getting something larger at some point.

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af357/rkw/BandsawTable.jpg http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af357/rkw/BandsawBracket.jpg

DFMiller
01-09-2010, 02:51 PM
RKW,
That looks like a very nice set up

RKW
01-09-2010, 06:13 PM
Thanks!


RKW,
That looks like a very nice set up

Lets us know how the one you picked out from Grizzly works. It appears to be more elaborate than typically home shop saws with the hydraulic feed control and coolant.

Nice choice.

DFMiller
01-09-2010, 07:26 PM
Its actually not a Grizzly.
Its a General. They make machines in Canada (Really) and they also have a line "General International"
Here is how they explain the difference.
http://www.general.ca/pg_index/faqe.html

The model I got was
http://www.general.ca/site_metal/m_produits/90-725.html
Its General International so its made in Taiwan.
Its sweet. :-)
Just because its not made in North America it can be a decent piece of equipment. I have had good luck with Taiwanese stuff. I have two older machines, a Colt ( Myford knock off) and Sharp 6x26 mill. They are not bad. I have owned other Chinese stuff and know the difference. I also own General stuff made in Canada. In the woodworking world is comparable or better to the old Powermatic and Old Delta.

Thanks to Lazlo I remembered this before I bougth.

dexter
01-25-2010, 03:54 PM
Its actually not a Grizzly.
Its a General. They make machines in Canada (Really) and they also have a line "General International"
Here is how they explain the difference.
http://www.general.ca/pg_index/faqe.html

The model I got was
http://www.general.ca/site_metal/m_produits/90-725.html
Its General International so its made in Taiwan.
Its sweet. :-)
Just because its not made in North America it can be a decent piece of equipment. I have had good luck with Taiwanese stuff. I have two older machines, a Colt ( Myford knock off) and Sharp 6x26 mill. They are not bad. I have owned other Chinese stuff and know the difference. I also own General stuff made in Canada. In the woodworking world is comparable or better to the old Powermatic and Old Delta.

Thanks to Lazlo I remembered this before I bougth.

I love General tools. I now own a General 350 table saw and a General Int. dust collector. I previously owned a General Jointer and and a G.I. contractors saw, both of which I sold. They have great resale value.

I have narrowed my band saw choice down to the King KBB-712 ($999) or the Genteral Int. 90-700-M1 ($1400). The later is more expensive but has a quick change gearbox as opposed to the belt change on the King and I have always had luck with the General products. I see you have the 90-725 which I think maybe nearly the same as the King KBB-712. How do you like this saw and how is it performing?

Do you have any pictures you could post?

Doozer
01-25-2010, 05:53 PM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/kooldoozer/Machines%20and%20Stuff/SDC10574.jpg

Not a new saw, but determinately get a good sized band saw.
This one is all steel welded construction, made by Emerson Electric.
It is a 8 X 12" saw but I have squeezed out a 13 1/4" piece.
I bought it for $125 in the local paper, and it has made me lots of
money over the years. It still has the blade on it form when I got it.
I do have a spare Lenox blade, but the old one keeps on cutting.
I really like that this saw cuts very straight. Set it and forget it.
Happy saw hunting.
--Doozer

Too_Many_Tools
01-25-2010, 11:00 PM
Since others have mentioned Portabands I won't feel too embarrassed to share this. I also added a small table to mine so that it can be reconfigured from chop saw to vertical mode. I made a bracket that allows it to be mounted on the WAY overpriced cast iron base. In any case, it gets used quite a bit and does what I need. I do plan on getting something larger at some point.

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af357/rkw/BandsawTable.jpg http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af357/rkw/BandsawBracket.jpg

Very nice job...looks better than professional.

Do you have any pictures of the bottom of the table and of where it mounts on the saw?

And you are right..the iron base is grossly overpriced.

Mike P
01-26-2010, 12:02 PM
It's your blade, or the downfeed isn't working correctly.

My old power hacksaw only took a few minutes to cut through a 6" diameter piece of cast iron.

You could have cut through quite a few of your 20 aluminum squares with a HAND hacksaw in 2 3/4 hours.

Check your blade, is it mounted in the correct direction? My saw lifts up a tiny little bit on the back stroke, so if the blade were reversed, the teeth would never touch the workpiece in the correct direction. You may have been "wiping" your block of aluminum the whole time.

dexter
01-27-2010, 04:13 PM
Deleted*****

vpt
01-27-2010, 06:41 PM
^ These size of saws are all the same. Very minor differences between them all but the basic body and components are the same. My rong fu is the exact same saw beside little tiny differences.

Very nice saw though! I have absolutely no complaints about the design at all!

From my experience though the coolant deal is a bunch of BS. I run mine dry all the time now and the blade does just fine. I had nothing but trouble and a mess when trying to use coolants, not worth it IMO.

Black_Moons
01-27-2010, 07:54 PM
Yea I used to baby my blade... I still give it some squirts of rapidtap if its gotta cut through like a 3" peice of solid mild steel.. but come on its a $20 blade and its gonna last for hundreds of cuts dry. Flood is messy and dribbleing only a bit less so.

vpt
01-27-2010, 10:44 PM
I'd say more than hundreds depending on what your cutting. Mine gets used primarily for cutting exhaust pipe, mild, stainless, aluminum. Lots of cuts, most cars with a single exhaust get at least 40 cuts. I have done probably 100 cars since I got the saw and have yet to replace the blade. Thats not even counting all the other metal cutting I do with it which isn't far behind the amount of exhaust cuts I do.

Granted the blade is missing some teeth in one spot from an oops and doesn't cut like new speeds. But it cuts at reasonable speeds and strait so it is good for awhile yet. I might replace it this summer. That would be 4 years on this blade.

goose
01-27-2010, 10:50 PM
I've got an old Kalamazoo bandsaw, but, as others have mentioned, I don't think the saw is as important as the blade. I use a 1/2" Starrett Bi-metal blade, and so far it's handled everything I've thrown it's way. I always leave the saw on the slowest speed, and have had no problems with ferrous and non-ferrous material.


Gary

form_change
01-28-2010, 04:45 AM
I would agree that a larger capacity saw is probably better if you have the room, but if anyone is pushed for space or wants a portable cutoff type bandsaw, have a look around for one of these (this is a typical version - they are available from many other suppliers)
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-MCB100A-Compact-Bandsaw-781243.htm
I bought an Australian version on the recommendation of a friend and have not regretted it. I see the main features as having a solid cast base and that the head swivels instead of the vice - angle cuts are much easier to dial in (there is a graduated scale). While Chinese, it seems a very good quality Chinese. Mine also came with a table so it could be used as a vertical. On the down side it is single speed and the blade adjustment is spring loaded so the blade length must be right. I have cut CI, Al, steel, plastic, PB on mine so I don't see the speed issue as major.