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Evan
12-26-2009, 08:40 AM
On Christmas day we were cooking up a roast, the furnace was running and 3 of 4 burners were on on the stove. My wife noticed something strange about the flames on the stove that she (and I ) had never seen before.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/flamered.jpg

The flames had a large red tip. Not yellow as is usual for insufficient oxygen but very red/orange. I have a 2 psi gas system in the house which means that each appliance has it's own regulator. I went and checked the furnace and it was burning very yellow/orange, not at all normal. I checked the CO alarm and it was fine.

So, I called the gas company emergency number and was told that if I didn't smell gas there was no problem.

This got my attention because CO has no odour. I explained that if the gas wasn't burning properly that it could kill us because of CO buildup and that I considered that to be an emergency and what was she going to do about it?

She put me on hold to check with somebody and when she came back on she had a very different tone. She immediately began reading from a script card a set of instructions including to open all doors and windows. Not freekin likely, it is -20 outside. She then said she would be dispatching somebody to come out immediately to check the system. Fine.

I have a feeling that if the tape of the call is reviewed she will be in deep excrement.

A fellow showed up about 45 minutes later from the gas company. He checked the pressure at the regulator and it was 14.7 kpa (2 psi) which is normal. He then came in to see the actual flames on the appliances and couldn't offer an explanation. I was sure it wasn't a problem with my appliances since it was affecting two different appliances on two different regulators. He waved his CO sniffer around and over the stove with all burners running red and pronounced that there was no measurable CO present. "So why the red flame?" I asked. He couldn't offer any explanation and opined that everything was fine and that I might want to have my system checked by a licensed gas fitter.

He left and much later when I checked the flames on the stove there was only a trace of colour showing and only with the lights off.

I am of the opinion that the gas was being adulterated to maintain volumes, possibly with nitrogen. Of course he wouldn't admit to that and claimed he knew of no possible "contamination" that could explain the effect.

Anybody know what may explain this?

platypus2020
12-26-2009, 08:59 AM
Evan,

I've seen this on and off over the 30+ years of fixing industrial boilers, when it get real cold, and the utility has to supplement the gas supply to keep the pressure up. In most cases they boost the pressure up with a propane/air mix, thats close to the BTU valve of natural gas. There are some boosting stations in New York state that I have worked at, all of these stations are manually run, so the mix is not perfect, but according to the utility it is close enough to keep the customers equipment running without any unsafe conditions. The color difference is due to chemical changes in the gas, as the propane/air mix is very different than the regular chemical make up of the regular natural gas.

jack

Black_Moons
12-26-2009, 09:08 AM
lol at propane+air... Doesnt that make the line rather.. explosive? :)

matched btus eh.
I was gonna say evan should ask for a refund, after all hes billed in Gjoules and if the gas changed well.. :)

Abner
12-26-2009, 09:21 AM
This looks familiar to me. I repair and clean our nursery heaters. I have one explanation, which may or may not apply.
Between the orifice and the burner if there as anything restricting the flow - spiders and cobwebs are a common problem on my heaters - it will produce the orange tips. Also my manuals state to adjust to air. there should be some way to adjust the air that gets sucked in near the orifice, a shield with a hole, something.
May not apply, just what I have found.

Evan
12-26-2009, 09:23 AM
I'm not so sure that there was any propane in the mix. The burners weren't operating properly either. A couple of the flame openings on one burner were whistling like they were running so lean that the gas wasn't igniting.

Abner, they all started burning like that at the same time, all 4 burners and then cleared up later. I don't think there is anything restricting them.

Doozer
12-26-2009, 09:45 AM
In some industrialized cities, before there was natural gas service the gas delivered was producer gas. Producer gas was mostly carbon monoxide, which will burn. Producer gas is made by hearing coal, which produces CO and purifies the coal in to coke. At the steel plants, when coke was made for the furnaces, the CO from the coking process was used as a fuel to run large IC engines for rolling mills and other things. So, I would not worry about CO in your gas or even using CO as a fuel itself.

--Doozer

Evan
12-26-2009, 09:47 AM
I'm not worried about CO in the gas, I am worried about incomplete combustion producing CO, which it can.

Carld
12-26-2009, 10:15 AM
A google search didn't turn up a process for using propane in natural gas lines, which is understandable to me, why would they want to publish that.

One site did say that propane has twice the BTU of natural gas so I guess mixing air with it would dilute it. Why would it be any more explosive than the natural gas or propane pure? It won't explode until it has something for ignition and a lot more air than they would mix with the propane.

A friend runs a large propane supply company and I will ask him about this.

boslab
12-26-2009, 10:31 AM
Well you got a choice of three, Lithium, Strontium or Calcium will tinge red, dontb know if mercaptan [the stink additive gives red ting] so if youve gone off the bedroom frolics its Li, if theres been a Nuke test in the desert then Sr.[90!], and if youve got brittle bones then Ca.
Toothpaste used to clean enamel, red [ Sr. is used to treat sensitive teeth]
Co., yellow flame, unlikley in the open but worth a Co monitor, you can get gassed in a room with the window open!, Co has about 14 times more affinity with Heamaglobin than O2. [prick finger, blood scarlet, administer Oxy immidiatly, Welding grade if nothing else available!, not too much though!
Mark
My keyboard is ill

aboard_epsilon
12-26-2009, 10:35 AM
flux ..has got into the pipe .

all the best.markj

Evan
12-26-2009, 10:37 AM
I may have found an answer thanks to the post by Doozer. I looked up "producer gas" and find that it is now called "synthesis or syngas". Burned straight it has about 1/4 the heat value of methane and contains up to 50% nitrogen. Some types of Producer gas burn with a deep red colour. I suspected nitrogen because red is a characteristic emission line of nitrogen when ionized. So, I would guess they are adulterating the methane with producer gas.

This means we not only have a problem with the emergency response line but their technician should know what he is dealing with too. If he does but won't tell me the truth then we still have a problem.

There better be an adjustment for the energy value on the next bill.

John Stevenson
12-26-2009, 10:41 AM
There better be an adjustment for the energy value on the next bill.
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Eropoka/Icon-Bash-Moving-14/thumb/flyingpig.gif_thumb.jpg

.

Carld
12-26-2009, 10:49 AM
Good luck on getting the adjustment and good luck on getting the truth out of any company.

andy_b
12-26-2009, 11:12 AM
Evan,

How are you going to prove to them that they weren't supplying you with the standard mixture of natural gas?

andy b.

aboard_epsilon
12-26-2009, 11:14 AM
i still say its flux

that gas of yours may have taken days to come from its source to you.

http://static-p4.fotolia.com/jpg/00/14/70/49/400_F_14704946_WdVJv8Why2JXs9CxAmutlAfHgmJlfkU2.jp g

all the best.markj

madman
12-26-2009, 11:30 AM
With all the stuff on pine beetles maybe its time to just burn wood again much safer i imagine. Something that can kill you in youre sleep that you cant see is a frightening thing Evan Be safe. New co 2 detectors and also NEW Batteries take Care Be Safe Mike

Evan
12-26-2009, 11:38 AM
that gas of yours may have taken days to come from its source to you.


Probably more like hours. The gas fields are only 500 hundred kilometres north from here and gas moves fast. We are on the main pipeline to the south.

jeremy13
12-26-2009, 11:59 AM
If I got called out in that situation. I would be looking for an airborn contaminant. Are you using a room humidifier? High humidity usually is more of an orange flame. Did you spray some room deodorizer? That usably is a bright orange and red flame. And will go away in a short amount of time.

charlz
12-26-2009, 12:15 PM
I may have found an answer thanks to the post by Doozer. I looked up "producer gas" and find that it is now called "synthesis or syngas". Burned straight it has about 1/4 the heat value of methane and contains up to 50% nitrogen. Some types of Producer gas burn with a deep red colour. I suspected nitrogen because red is a characteristic emission line of nitrogen when ionized. So, I would guess they are adulterating the methane with producer gas.

I wonder if when they have to do work on a line they purge it with nitrogen? Then when they run gas through that part of the line again the nitrogen gets mixed in and moved down the line?

dp
12-26-2009, 01:06 PM
http://www.gascape.org/HomeGasTest.html

We have so much sulfur in our gas it precipitates out onto the stove top when ever I use the stock pot at high flame for long periods.

doctor demo
12-26-2009, 02:06 PM
Evan,I do not want to send You off in a wrong direction because of the potential risk of overlooking something more serious.....but every time I have worked on My system I get that same flame for hours.
I added a gas heater and it was red for a while, added a spa heater and it was red for days and every time I clean the bbq burner I get red flame if I use it as soon as I'm finished.
I chalked it up to rust-scale-dirt in the pipes .
Has there been any pipeline work in the area?

Steve

sdeering
12-26-2009, 02:19 PM
Wholly crap thatís a lot of sulpher.
Even, I work in the gas industry in Alberta.
Usually when temps drop to extremes gas flow (direction) in the province will change significantly. Direction flow changes are usually caused by the pipeline operatorís opening-closing valves to direct flow to maintain pressure to different parts of the province.
This can result in the gas concentration changing.
It all depends on where the gas is coming from and how well the plants are striping the heavier ends out of it. Itís very unlikely you will be getting 100% methane normally. You will have a mixture of c1 c2 c3 c4 n2 and CO2 amongst others sulpher compounds. I would think BC is quite strict on how much sulfer is allowed in the system like Alberta. Plants that have H2S in their inlet are monitored by the pipeline company on the plants outlet for H2S if the plant goes over the spec. the main valve will shut and only the pipeline operator will open it after the gas has been tested good. Side note H2s burns green and you would be smelling sulpher.

As far as blending air with c3 I highly doubt that would be allowed. Very dangerous. Blending C3 with C1- possible but you shouldnít notice that much of a color change, it would be to the yellow though.

My guess is the gas system could have been topped up with a different supply of gas that had something different in it like the coal idea. Any coke plants near?

New wells are sometimes fracked with N2. If the company decided to bring the well into production instead of testing it (flaring) you may have got a shot of N2.

The gas industry is quite strict in Canada I would have a hard time feeling I was being sent something unsafe. Although shyit happens.

Take note next time you get a cold snap to see if it does it again.

Evan
12-26-2009, 02:22 PM
The humdidity is 27% right now, we use absolutely nothing in the way of air fresheners or other such items. Neither one of us can stand the smell.

There hasn't been any work in the area and all the pipes are plastic up to the house and copper inside.

I will be speaking to them next week to see what I can find out. They get a lot more talkative if you mention the Utilities Commission.

Evan
12-26-2009, 02:29 PM
This isn't a cold snap. That was last week. :D

http://ixian.ca/pics7/minus40.jpg

platypus2020
12-26-2009, 02:34 PM
Here is a PDF of one of the propane/air back up systems, this is meant as a back up system for a single facility, the system I put the boilers into, was meant to supplement the main gas distribution system, if there was a prolonged demand, that was dragging the system pressure down below acceptable levels


http://www.altenergy.com/Downloads/PDF_Public/WBHVS07Dec09.pdf


jack

Carld
12-26-2009, 02:38 PM
:eek: jumpin' Jehoshaphat, that makes me glad I live in the Hew Hes of Hay right at the Gate Way to the South. :D It gets cold but not anywhere near that. Well, maybe in the -20's once a blue moon.

Arcane
12-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Well you got a choice of three, Lithium, Strontium or Calcium will tinge red, dontb know if mercaptan [the stink additive gives red ting] so if youve gone off the bedroom frolics its Li, if theres been a Nuke test in the desert then Sr.[90!], and if youve got brittle bones then Ca.
Toothpaste used to clean enamel, red [ Sr. is used to treat sensitive teeth]
Co., yellow flame, unlikley in the open but worth a Co monitor, you can get gassed in a room with the window open!, Co has about 14 times more affinity with Heamaglobin than O2. [prick finger, blood scarlet, administer Oxy immidiatly, Welding grade if nothing else available!, not too much though!
Mark
My keyboard is ill

Actually it's much more than that. Hemoglobin binding affinity for CO is 200 times greater than its affinity for oxygen.

Evan
12-26-2009, 05:24 PM
John....


http://ixian.ca/pics7/pigs.jpg

boslab
12-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Actually it's much more than that. Hemoglobin binding affinity for CO is 200 times greater than its affinity for oxygen.
i'm glad you pointed that out, i've been gassed due to Dreager failure and it wasent nice, you loose the use of your legs first, then everything else, you know full well your on the way out, only if someone notices your on the deck and [wearing BA] drags you out, you die awake.
O2 flush to reduce CO. in your blood is required, not so clever if your on your own or 150 foot up a blast furnace!
Sir bernard Spilsbury [the home office Pathologist who in my opinion was Sherlock Holmes] identified the tests for CO poisoning [Gas water Heaters with faulty burners], good Book if available, the Life and Times of Sir Burnard Spilsbury.
We train regularly inside a 2 million cubic foot gas holder with BA, when it starts whistling you start panicking, then learn 'buddy breathing, fast [only one BA with short air per team, and you dont know which one!]
Mr Crippin loved the Stuff apparently, good way to get rid of young girls.
When i'm in work i have to wear a gas monitor [Oxy, CO. Fuel] 80 ppm and it starts hooting, last week it went off showing 250ppm on the scale, time to leave [dont run, you go down like a sack of ****e] calm, head for outside and breath deeply!
We used to have Mice [not Canarys], but when disposable lighters came out men used to gas the buggers to get a day off!
rergards
mark

darryl
12-26-2009, 06:01 PM
Just an opinion here, but I would have to suspect something in the gas. If the household air was adding something which caused that much change in the color of the flame, You would either have smelled it, or known what it was from previously. Maybe you cooked something in the oven which was abnormal- that would be the norm for me :)- but I suspect it's in the gas.

This is probably within the normal operational parameters for the gas supply chain, but I would suggest that the gas company should be willing to divulge the explanation. There's two scenarios- one, the person they might have to explain that to is capable of understanding it, in which case they would be left with a satisfied customer (like Evan), or the concerned customer would have no idea what they were talking about, so would have no choice but to accept the explanation as a very plausible sounding truth, in which case also the customer would probably be satisfied. If there was something dangerous about using the gas, wouldn't that also affect the people of the company, from the top on down, since they probably all use the same gas at home-

I know in my case, if I saw that unusual condition I would want to know the answer. Not only would it be educational, it would make me feel better knowing there was someone with some technical skill in the company capable of explaining things.

In the event that within all the technical expertise of the gas company they actually can't explain it, that leaves it open to possibilities that you normally wouldn't think would be relevant. Are they doing some kind of microwave testing up there? :)

Black_Moons
12-26-2009, 07:19 PM
Am I the only one who sees using CO as a fuel is.. Insane? And this is comming from someone who uses a gas that explodes at 15psi for fuel... :)

darryl
12-26-2009, 07:29 PM
Considering that CO is a byproduct of combustion, why doesn't it just burn up as it is being produced? Yeah, I see something wrong with this picture-

oldtiffie
12-26-2009, 07:32 PM
John....

http://ixian.ca/pics7/pigs.jpg

Swine flew?

Big T
12-26-2009, 08:06 PM
Methanal.
If you are getting your gas from Alberta,(As most people do), it is the methanol that is added to the shallow gas wells in the field to keep them from freezing off. The gas well operators around here have been pumping methanol down hole to keep up with the demand that this cold snap has created. The draw on the well is so high, that it draws fluid up as well, so methonal is added to prevent freeze off.
If they didnt use the methanol, the wells freeze off, and therefore the compressor stations would go down due to low suction pressure.
At the comp. stations are glycol dehydrators to dry the gas, but some methanol and fluids may get through due to the high demand.

beanbag
12-26-2009, 08:19 PM
http://ixian.ca/pics7/minus40.jpg

How does life subsist in these conditions? Doesn't all molecular motion stop?

Evan
12-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Considering that CO is a byproduct of combustion, why doesn't it just burn up as it is being produced?

CO isn't a byproduct of (complete) combustion. It's the part that didn't combust due to lack of another oxygen atom. Given enough oxygen the CO burns whether it is formed from another fuel or IS the fuel.

If the flame is low on available oxygen from the mixer it generally burns yellow because of the formation of soot and the subsequent burning of the soot as it draws oxygen from the surrounding air. The CO results because the inner part of the flame is insulated from the external oxygen supply and goes too lean and cool to burn before it has a chance to completely combust.

For the flame to burn red or orange requires that something is mixed with the gas in the mixer. It either must be in the air or in the gas. CO burns with a nice blue flame if it has enough oxygen. The most likely cause is excess nitrogen.

Sulphur normally burns with a blue flame as well. A methane flame is a very sensitive indicator of the presence of other elements because of the high adiabatic flame temperature of 3541 F. It ionizes any elements that are present and the ions emit characterstic spectral lines as colours in the flame. The process is widely used as flame spectroscopy to assay ore samples and test filters for the presence of various elements.

Methanol burns with a nearly colourless flame.

boslab
12-27-2009, 02:21 AM
The fuel gas that ran Britain was Town gas, CO. it was as you know deadly but was in use for around 100 years, it was produced by cokeing coal, in those days if you wanted to top yourself sticking your head in the oven [unlit unless your a bit thick] was the prefered choice of housewifes!
As evan points out incomplete combustion or air shortage will produce CO, a yellow flame is the indicator of the process going endothermic and making the nasty stuff. a piece of metal impinging on a flame can heatsink it into making CO, A very famous killer in the UK was a gas wall heater for hot water called an Ascot, these were popular in the 40s, and 50s and were fitted over the tap end of the bath,
over time a fixing screw holding a small geat sheild above the pilot light corroded and the plate dropped down a little, enough to suck away heat from the pilot causing it to burn incorrectly and yellow.
the CO then slowley filled the bath you were lying in, most folk found next day in a cold bath, somewhat dead
If you think you have a problem call for a safety check which i beleive is free, they may also fill a smple tube [glass tube with valve each end, or an ali one with a tyre or schreader on the end, they take it and stick it in a Gas Chromatagraph to check composition and also test calorific value, cracked pipes can cause air to pull into the system! that always gets me!
mark

darryl
12-27-2009, 04:37 AM
Well, shows you what I know about gasses- I didn't think that CO would burn. I didn't think that it would not, either. So- what would it take to burn CO2? Wait- don't tell me- photosynthesis

Evan
12-27-2009, 04:53 AM
CO will burn because there are dangling unfilled bonds available on the carbon. Add another oxygen and that's all it will hold. When a pair of atoms (or more) combine to make a molecule via combustion there is a release of energy because the molecule formed has a lower total binding energy state. That is considered "burnt". You can't burn it further because the molecule already is in the lowest possible binding energy state.

Photosynthesis adds energy derived from a light source to break those binding energy bonds which allows the separation back into elemental gases to occur.

aboard_epsilon
12-27-2009, 05:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJvS4uc4TbU

Bguns
12-27-2009, 05:36 AM
Quick reply Evan..

We have a fuel cell powered with NG, that got clogged up, due to a compressor lube seal failure upstream. Gas Co's $$$ problem.....

Petroleum based compressor lubrication leakage floating around, in HP NG, could cause similar problems, and not show up with a simple pressure test.

Peter N
12-27-2009, 05:37 AM
Swine flew?


I had Gammon Flu last week.
It was swine flu but then I was cured...






I'll get my coat.

Bguns
12-27-2009, 05:41 AM
Peter
Beta you didn't :)

oldtiffie
12-27-2009, 05:55 AM
Peter.

I'd go for mammon above gammon -every time - although mammary ain't too bad it if its on offer:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=gammon+ham&meta=&aq=0&oq=gammon

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mammon&meta=&aq=3&oq=mammo

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mammary+glands&meta=&aq=0&oq=mammary

Its a gas - naturally - even in Canada I believe.

J Tiers
12-30-2009, 11:05 PM
Evan... you mean you didn't get out the spectroscope and ID the elements concerned? I'd figure you as the most likely to have one handy of most of us here.... at least one that would allow decent ID of the wavelength without using known tracers.

CO burns fine. We have clients running engine generators on producer gas, and gas made from cooking wood and related waste.

CO in furnaces etc is from poor mixture/incomplete combustion. Still no problem unless it is downdrafted into the house.... or gets through a leak in the heat exchanger, if you have that awful forced-air heat.....

steve45
12-31-2009, 12:52 AM
I also work in the oil & gas business. sdeering & beanbag are right. The actual makeup and BTU content of your gas will change all the time. I had a customer that wanted to make real-time measurements of BTU value and vary the ignition timing on their compressor engines accordingly to prevent detonation.

Methanol to prevent line freezing is also likely.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Optics Curmudgeon
12-31-2009, 01:53 AM
Don't know if it's relevant, or if I've told the story before, but here goes. In 1979 I was working for Airco installing an N2/H2 atmosphere system in a South Boston sintering plant when we were baffled by a high dew point situation in the existing furnace gas system, which used cracked natural gas. After determining that the incoming gas was wet, we called the local gas company, who told us that they added water vapor to the gas because the gas mains in the area were wood, dating from the producer gas days. The low dew point of natural gas was causing cracks and leaks in the wood gas mains. The wet gas swelled the wood, solving the problem. They also told us that they added whatever they needed at the time to keep the BTU value of the gas at a specified level, as that was what they were obligated to provide, as opposed to some specific chemical content.

Joe

Optics Curmudgeon
12-31-2009, 02:26 AM
Don't know if it's relevant, or if I've told the story before, but here goes. In 1979 I was working for Airco installing an N2/H2 atmosphere system in a South Boston sintering plant when we were baffled by a high dew point situation in the existing furnace gas system, which used cracked natural gas. After determining that the incoming gas was wet, we called the local gas company, who told us that they added water vapor to the gas because the gas mains in the area were wood, dating from the producer gas days. The low dew point of natural gas was causing cracks and leaks in the wood gas mains. The wet gas swelled the wood, solving the problem. They also told us that they added whatever they needed at the time to keep the BTU value of the gas at a specified level, as that was what they were obligated to provide, as opposed to some specific chemical content.

Joe

keelan
12-31-2009, 03:16 AM
I think the theory that an adulterating gas is present in Evan's residence makes the most sense. Has Mrs. Evan cooked up a pot of chili for the festive season? With it being -40 out, it wouldn't hurt to light a fire in one's gut...

Evan
12-31-2009, 03:32 AM
For the amount of colour in that flame to be due to some sort of contaminant in our air would require it to be a significant percentage of the atmosphere in the house. It hasn't been seen since Christmas day. It is without doubt something present in the gas supply. I haven't talked to the gas company yet because it isn't likely that there will be anyone there that has a clue until next week.

Methanol in the gas won't make it burn orange or red. Methanol contains only carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. It's made from natural gas.

RPease
12-31-2009, 05:45 AM
Swine flew?


Flying Porkus Nebula.........:D

J Tiers
12-31-2009, 08:51 AM
For the amount of colour in that flame to be due to some sort of contaminant in our air would require it to be a significant percentage of the atmosphere in the house.

Or, the contaminant would have to be local..... Such as what happens when water, especially salty water , boils over.

Since you say other remote burners had same effect, it presumably was something that was in the gas at the time.

Too bad you didn't try any other flame, such as a candle or match. That would have provided a separate test for, and allowed positively eliminating, an airborne contaminant. A spectroscope reading would have been interesting, in case there was any particular element present which might cause the color.

Evan
12-31-2009, 09:06 AM
Jerry,

The furnace in the basement which has it's own outside direct source of makeup air was also burning orange. It's also on it's own different regulator. There is no question that the problem is the gas supply. You can't put enough contaminant in the air to make a flame burn that colour without it being a health hazard and more likely deadly. It would take amounts in the 2 digit percent range to affect combustion that much. Also, there aren't any good candidates for any sort of air contamination that would cause it. It's characteristic of a large excess of nitrogen in the gas. Producer gas with high nitrogen burns red.

While a spectroscope image would be interesting there is a lot more to obtaining it than just pointing a camera at the flame. I would need a separate controlled flame source on my optical bench in order to take a spectrum with a grating. I have the required optics but setting up the optics and especially the flame source would be a time consuming project.

Mike Nash
12-31-2009, 11:29 AM
When I first saw this thread, just after Evan first posted, it caught my eye. I had just been searching the web for reasons for a yellow flame the previous day. Our gas range eyes were all showing lots of yellow, but it was sort of flickering. I checked the gas logs downstairs, where there is a blue flame area that makes fake embers glow, and it was doing this also. But it all cleared up maybe an hour or so after the salt pork my daughter had been frying cleared the air. I knew there was a better reason I always wished she could cook it outside than it stunk up the house. It had me worried for a while there.

And no, I'm not implying anyone else had the same issue! Our flames were yellow. :)

madman
12-31-2009, 11:43 AM
Yeah ive seen that Im sorry now i got rid of the old wood burner but no insurance companies here will insure a wood heated home anymore? Crooked buggers they are.

J Tiers
01-01-2010, 12:15 AM
Jerry,

There is no question that the problem is the gas supply.

I agree, in fact I already did......;)



While a spectroscope image would be interesting there is a lot more to obtaining it than just pointing a camera at the flame. I would need a separate controlled flame source on my optical bench in order to take a spectrum with a grating. I have the required optics but setting up the optics and especially the flame source would be a time consuming project.

You can find out quite a bit by "just pointing", but it does help to have one or two fixed items, like sodium line, etc.

you WOULD have had to get just the red portion in the "image"..... but it could have eliminated a number of things.... no matter.

oldtiffie
01-01-2010, 12:39 AM
I was pondering this thread and as a natural gas was the topic and as a gas given off by ruminants is considered to be a serious pollutant in the Global Warming issue, it seemed to me that there is lot of ruminating (aka: chewing the cud") going on here.

As the gas given off from ruminants is sourced from the process of not doing much at all other than turning fodder into bull-$hit then perhaps the said gas being normal is also natural.

That being so, it seems that the rumination gas is actually and/or associated with piles of bull-$hit.

And you heat your house and cook with this stuff?

Perhaps it bears looking into.

It sure doesn't bear thinking about.

Keep ruminating.

beanbag
01-01-2010, 01:18 AM
consider it a christmas gift from the gas company.

dp
01-01-2010, 01:54 AM
I was cooking a pot of 15 bean soup in my pressure cooker tonight when the flame went yellow all around the burner. It was also hissing and sputtering - seemed to me like it has a lot of moisture in it but it's far too cold underground here for any water in the pipes to flow as a gas. It lasted about 2 minutes.

The soup, which had the core and bone of a Honey-Baked Ham in it, was delicious!

Gas problems then will be characteristically different than what I experienced tonight.