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thegreatupski
10-14-2003, 09:37 PM
Hey guys, this might sounds crazy, but i've been intrigued with the idea of flying brooms ever since i saw the "harry potter" movie with my son. I know it sounds crazy and farfetched, but i think it would be a really fun project to work on, as i just finished my last one. I need help with this, so if you have any idea, or thoughts, email me at turbolax89@hotmail.com , i had the idea to put some sort of thruster engine (with fast rpm) to creat a thrust to propell the broom foward. I wont exactly use wood, probably metal tubing. I would also need thrusters, (fans of some sort to give a thrust) under the broom to create a "hover" affect. I kno this sounds crazy, but if you have any ideas, please let me know. I'm probably not as experienced as most of you, but i'm determined to get this done. All help would be greatly appreciated! THANX!!!!

ibewgypsie
10-14-2003, 09:45 PM
Personally, I'd lay off the mescaline. I prefer Wild turkey.

Be real hard to make your ideal work in the real world with out drugs. Not a very stable platform. Perhaps some high tensile strength fishing line? about four or five strands should lift you.

I have tried some wild things too. I did some tricks with a tesla coil I still laugh about.

David.

Evan
10-14-2003, 10:00 PM
Have a look in some of the older back issues of various model airplane magazines. A regular item is flying lawnmowers.

Arbo
10-14-2003, 10:05 PM
HMMMMMMMMMM...

Machinists and rocket science. You might want to call NASA, or maybe that dude that played the mad doctor in Back to the future.

andy_b
10-14-2003, 10:47 PM
i guess i'm wondering is this a flying broom for YOU to ride on, or a Radio Control model?

if it's for a live human, your best bet would be to look into that rocket pack that someone built (cool idea, but only about 30 seconds flight time).

if it's for a RC model then you have a lot of options. depending on how you design the broomstick, you could probably fit a decent size ducted fan engine in it. that's what is used in the RC jets. electronic heading hold gyros are under $100 now, so you would just need to rig up some control surfaces to keep the broom steady. i'm not saying this would be a simple project, but it is certainly doable.

andy b.

Oso
10-14-2003, 11:43 PM
Forget the broom, and relax on Delta.........

thegreatupski
10-14-2003, 11:44 PM
Well, yes, i agree with some of your statements, and i also agree that my proposal probably seems quite silly. But i am determined to do it. I am talking about an actual broom (metal broom at that) that could support me. There's the problem of making it stable. But why couldn't an engine with a drive shaft of a high rpm creat enough thrust to carry my body weight and my machine in the air? They're some machines (jetpacks) already built with this theory. With high powered thrusters(fans) that could support the weight with some 5,000 rpm to power it. Couldn't i just attach a thruster on the back, and like 3 on the bottom to stabalize it, and if i need to, wings? I mean, i agree that this is a far fetched project, but i really am interested in this, as no one has tried this before. Please give this concept some thought people, i am really hoping on somehow creating this. I really would like to know how to make it stable, if i can. What kind of motor should i use? How should i attatch it? PLEASE HELP ME! thanx for your support guys, i appreciate it. ( i was thinking maybe use a hovercraft thrust engine for the main thrust engine? and maybe 3 smaller powered engines(fans/thrusters) for the hovering effect underneath. And possibly wings? Also, do you guys think i would just be better off buying one of those small build it yourself airplane kit/plans? They're kinda like hang-glides, yet they have and engine and propellers? If you guys have any information on any of this.... please please plllleeeeaseee let me know! thanx a ton!

CCWKen
10-15-2003, 12:20 AM
I keep seeing this Wile Coyote image come to mind. Swoooooosh.....BAM!

SJorgensen
10-15-2003, 12:26 AM
You're a nut. You need to learn why it isn't going to happen though. All you have to do is educate yourself. There isn't very much on any basic aircraft that you can easily do without. Everything you need to make it work doesn't exist. It’s a great fantasy though. You'd be well advised to work on something that you can succeed with. Do some experiments on thrust to weight ratios. Here's one that you might be interested in. If you compare the energy consumption of a thrust system that accelerates a large volume of air but a relatively low acceleration to a system like a jet that accelerates a relatively low volume to a high velocity, you will find the energy consumed is related to the square of the induced slipstream velocity. The noise level is also unbelievably loud with jets. Play with Ramjets for a while or fire yourself out of a cannon with a broom between your legs.
That you could do.

Spence

Evan
10-15-2003, 12:59 AM
Upski,

Lay off the mind altering stuff for a day or three and reconsider your plans. I presume that you know that flubber isn't actually real?

Joel
10-15-2003, 01:48 AM
Hmmm. Some explanation, assuming you’re serious. You need way too much information for anyone to reasonably give, and it would not further your project. The education would serve you well though.
It has not been done because it CANNOT be done. This is very obvious even to the casual non-expert. There is a big difference between picturing/fantasizing in your head, and inventing or building a successful project. You have to understand how things work, and what you have to work with, to build things. Spence points out that none of the things you need to build this exist in the real world, nor are they likely to in the foreseeable future. Your size restriction is impossible to overcome. The fuel tank alone would exceed your available space. If your broom were giant, and didn't really have to look like a broom, then maybe, but that would be a project for Lockheed with the budget to match. You have no motors for lift or thrust, (hovercraft motors are big, and you need 2), and stability would be very difficult at best. Small wings hold very small loads, and you don't run to home depot and get thrusters to "just attach". And on, and on… No point in going into any safety issues, Darwinism will care of that for us. You could possibly build an R/C broom as Andy said. It would however, be complex. In fact, it probably has been done already by one of the many intelligent people on the planet. Do some research.
Your grammar and spelling are top-notch though. Good luck.


[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 10-15-2003).]

debequem
10-15-2003, 06:56 AM
What about a Sidewinder missle? Just add bristles.

BC21OSH
10-15-2003, 07:25 AM
There were some pepole some years back in Seattle that had a project called Space Ranger. It was a flying platform that used propane powered pulse jet engines for lift and then the "Pilot" would just lean in the direction he wanted to travel. It didn't "Get off the ground". Oh ya, it would fly but extremely noisy with four pulse jets and unstable. The FAA didn't like it because there was no room for error. You have an engine fail and it drops like a rock. You lean a little too far over center - well you've seen what happens when you blow up a balloon and then release it. That's what a rocket powered broom is going to do unless you can find some way to stablize it. The military spends millions of dollars on guidance systems for rockets and missles just to get them to a target so they can blow up - no passenger.

Bernard

ibewgypsie
10-15-2003, 08:32 AM
Come one guys, think of the possibilities..

You create a pressured cylinder, fill it with gas. Hire the space shuttle to take you into space, put on space suit. Straddle broom and fly off..

At least you would be famous for a minute or two. Lots of people want to be famous.

I liked the flying wire routine. The Non-chalance at which Hollywood corrupts the minds of developing engineers with special effects. Wonders of BLUE screen.

When anti-gravity is developed it is viable.

Start your research, you have my two cents to finance with.

David

dvideo
10-15-2003, 09:07 AM
Think of the possibilities... Our Friendly Govt has given out large chunks of $$ to study nutier ideas - and funded some prototypes. One nutty idea was the concrete spacecraft (!!) that shoved nuclear bombs out its bum, set them off, and then rode the shockwave around the solar system. Yeah, I know, the protoype worked and they learned a lot. Still a nutty idea.

So if the idea is nutty enough, go for gov't funding. Spend your own money on it and you are a crank. Spend the Govt's money on it and you are a professor.

G'Luck...

--jr

3jaw
10-15-2003, 09:28 AM
Go for it!!!! The Darwin awards are always looking for new candidates.

lynnl
10-15-2003, 10:33 AM
I love this BB site. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Alistair Hosie
10-15-2003, 10:38 AM
Try my mmother in law http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Evan
10-15-2003, 11:24 AM
Note: I'll be removing this link at the end of the day as it is a deep link.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 10-15-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 10-15-2003).]

lynnl
10-15-2003, 12:22 PM
Whatsthat mean? '...deep link'?

Evan
10-15-2003, 01:00 PM
It means I have linked directly to an image on another website. When the picture is viewed it is using that website's bandwidth. Although not illegal it is frowned on by many. That is why I will remove the link later. Also, when you deep link to an image you don't have control over what will be displayed. It could change to something very embarassing when the webmaster discovers it. One one occasion someone deep linked to my site for an image to use as his avatar on a forum. I got tired of the 1000's of hits it was generating and replaced the squirrel pic with some very good looking butt cheeks. He he he he....

Benjamin Borowsky
10-15-2003, 01:07 PM
Upski:

I agree with the others, that it's probably impossible... but I would suggest that you try, nonetheless, with a model sized one. The worst that will happen is that you will devote time and money to a project that doesn't work. Then you'll truly belong here.

At best, you'll find something, not what you envision now, but SOMETHING, that makes you happy. Either way, well worth the time.

B2

Sometimes you just gotta do it, damn the torpedoes...

PolskiFran
10-15-2003, 02:24 PM
Upski,
Make sure you let us know when you are finished with your project. Then I'll have to start working on a copy of the "Acme Indestructo Steel Ball"
All the best and good luck,
Frank

Weston Bye
10-15-2003, 04:12 PM
Take the full oxygen cylinder from your gas welding rig, add some bristles to the top, lay the cylinder down, climb on and break the valve off. Instant broomstick (with a fat handle)

Wes

Weston Bye
10-15-2003, 04:13 PM
Or a JATO bottle.

Thrud
10-15-2003, 06:00 PM
It would be easier to just borrow my bit..I mean witch of a sisters broom. Seat twelve - large butt - trust me.

mwilson
10-15-2003, 09:34 PM
You could learn how to skydive, then jump out of a plane carrying a broomstick. During the freefall you could ride around on it. It would at least seem like you were flying it - until it comes time to open the chute.

Peter S
10-15-2003, 09:58 PM
These guys should be able to help you with an engine.

http://www.moller.com/

darryl
10-15-2003, 10:32 PM
Mwilson got real close with the skydiving thing. Instead of that, rent time on nasa's low gravity training plane. You should be able to use compressed co-2 in the broom, and fly around for a minute or so at a time. A pendulum valve arrangement might get you some stability, just don't forget the time limit in the 'plane. Oh, you might have to arrange to vent the cabin so the pressure doesn't blow the skin off, sending you skydiving.

ibewgypsie
10-15-2003, 11:55 PM
Cut some peyote buttons, chew slowly. Sit on broom and soon you will be flying......

You know? the worm in the Metzcal... they chew on peyote too. If you get a worm that has been eating peyote, he is saturated and will make you trip like you are doing legend drugs. Last time I swallowed one, I did it on WEBCAM for the cuties in the paltalk chat room. I swallowed the worm the wrong way, it was a hefty one about a inch and half long. They have hairs on the worm, the hairs choke you if you swallow it the wrong way. I got choked on THE WORLD WIDE WEB and nearly barfed for the cuties....

Well, it will work as well as anything else mentioned so far. Is it real? was it real? It was real for Timothy Leary when he woke up in the INSANE aslyum.. (Lysergic Acid accidental exposure)

Evan
10-16-2003, 12:55 AM
Ibe,

Ya take the mescaline you're gonna barf anyway.

BC21OSH
10-16-2003, 07:08 AM
Peter S,

Is Moller for real. He has been advertising his intent to produce a flying car for years. I have never seen any proof that he really has anything to offer. It sounds like a great concept but after 30 years of "working on it" I would think he would have something at one of the larger airshows like Oshkosh.

Bernard

ibewgypsie
10-16-2003, 07:38 AM
Evan..

Yeah.. barf.. that's when your body tells you have had enough fun..

And, the road runner never got caught, but Wile E Coyote got smashed flat a million times and is alive to this day somewhere on celluiod.

(I have Wile E Coyote tattooed on my chest with rocket pack and roller skates) Reason:? Cause I remember my (real) built motorcycle and the $6500 in tickets it got me. ie:"supergenius"... so I thought.. I sure worked a long time paying them tickets off. In self humor I tattooed Wile-E there.

AND< Harry Potter, the wizard with the grey beard, it wasn't really his, he borrowed it from the "OH Brother where art thou" studio.
(So Carrol says.. Ha.. Ha..)

"Riding brooms", it was a 1500 century thing about widow women and using a broom as a phallic symbol, ie dildo. Hollywood has changed it into something else for sure.

The Fall Soltice was always a sex orgy for sure when the witches will gather. Kinda Kinky. I have met a few really strange women who claim to be witches and heard more stories. Nothing like Harry Potter does with his broom. Whoo hoo, about time here in Georgia..

Actually, Harry Potter is a total fantasy. Stabilization of a broom without gyroscopic assistance and computer logistics would be as much of a fantasy. Even modern aircraft require a computer to fly. (comes to mind now is the (commercial) Amish man looking for a place to plug his computer up and the COW BELLOWING off camera) Ever bit As likely as a broom flying.. Not to mention the power required to motivate it,

You could however tie a rope onto it and tow it with a small plane like a sign.. I would not suggest that thou, it could be more hazardous to your health then the peyote.

time to go to work.. (putting in 16s)

bikenut
10-16-2003, 03:28 PM
Sounds like a recipe for disaster, and I thought I came up with some wild ideas. If you are serious though, call them cats at ACME. They could FEDEX ya one right out, save ya all the R&D. Thanks for the belly laughs. Smitty

Evan
10-16-2003, 04:10 PM
Just remember how well those ACME products work...

ibewgypsie
10-17-2003, 01:15 AM
Wile E Coyote SUPER GENIUS don't need "NO" stinking directions.. Acme gives him a volume discount too..


I really have enjoyed this post... Thanks..


[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 10-17-2003).]

Hellbender
10-17-2003, 03:18 PM
Dude, BE SURE and make a video of your ride (I'm sure there will be only one), your heirs will be set for life.

I'll buy 3 of them right now!!

HB

Evan
10-17-2003, 03:42 PM
Say... Didn't Evil Knievel already do this???

JCHannum
10-17-2003, 04:36 PM
That's Evel Knievel, and today is his birthday. Most of him is 65.

spope14
10-17-2003, 09:59 PM
Has to be possible. Had an old girlfriend, almost of the "fatal attraction" type that I swear had one, especially after the "messy break-up". Swear she flew by every night to see if I was home, and if I were (un) fortunate to have a date on hand, she would then call and screach, or just "happen by" - miserable -------. Heck, even at 1:00 a.m. on a night where I had a 5:00 a.m. shift just to chew my fanny, miserable -----.

Back to topic - Of course, many people thought that the Wright bros were a bit off. What if they had come up with a flying broom first rather than the science of lift and wings.....

Brings up another subject - LIFT and design. Seems bristles would not have enough "lift" design, and any that might be had would be as random as the bristle pattern ---- "Look at the guy bouncing off the walls, saw that on some movie...."

WHICH brings an idea. What about bristles shaped like wings, almost like the back wing aircraft. Funny shaped wings none the less, but wings, lift type of pattern or config... Rudders abound, tail hidden.....

Propulsion. heck, there are small designs for jet engines avalilable out there, seems there was a thread on this a while back. have to be careful with the magacians cape hanging down or flying back though the flame path. Hummm a flying broom with a guy on fire on it - screaming.......air flow on the "bristles', the faint glow of something burning.....Wilie Coyote.... Compressed air? what about regulation, and what about the limit of fuel time. How much compressed air to lift a 180 lb average guy for about one minute.....big tanks.....directional nozzles. Compressed air seems not to flow at constant rate as I have seen before, and kind of "peters out" near the end and throughout.

"OK, there he goes, some guy on a oxy tank with bristles on the back end....."

Could be done, for once upon a time, nobody thought a bug shaped thing could land on the moon.



[This message has been edited by spope14 (edited 10-17-2003).]

ibewgypsie
10-17-2003, 10:08 PM
So...

Eviel Knieval... Wile E COyote, and ACME enterprises teaming up to build a broom that flies?

I rushed home to see what was next of this post... really I did....

David...

WSmac
10-17-2003, 11:28 PM
My advice to you would be to first design the broom itself without propulsion.
Start with models and work your way up.
Once you have a design that is airworthy as a glider start thinking about what will actually drive the broom.
Adding to your "gilder" platform will probably bring you back to the beginning, having to gain stability in the air.

You may only be able to make a model that actually flies, but your idea may be taken to your desired conclusion in the future.
If you can get past all the naysayers and smart-aleck remarks you'll get, perhaps your kids will learn from you that even when someone says something is "impossible", it's worth a try to find out why.

Who knows...you or someone else may discover something very valuable during your experiment.

I like the idea...and I'm not crazy! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Evan
10-18-2003, 12:14 AM
The discovery will likely be that oddly soothing bright light at the end of the long tunnel beckoning you.

SJorgensen
10-18-2003, 02:40 AM
WSmac,
I like your input and agree with your point of view, but I think you should have added the question "Just how important to you is the function of sweeping to your device?"

Once you drop that, many things become available.

Spence