PDA

View Full Version : Energy Efficiency? Off Topic a bit



madman
12-29-2009, 01:42 AM
Wife wants one of those Fancy Washer Dryers, She sort of hinted at my New Shop 4 new bikes and a 4 wheeler I bought this year along with all kinds of shop equipment. She hasnt seen my New Boring machine yet or the sand blaster But to make it short, i wondered if those LG front load washer dryers are good? Do any of you guys have these units? Is it better to get a electric high efficiency dryer ? or a gas one? I hear the new front load washers can hiold 32 pair of jeans and when they come out are almost dry wow. ?? I dont do much laundry anyhow but figure if i get her these new Appliances i can buy my new 4 cylinder yamaha snowmobile?? V Max 800 (New for me is actually old junk guys )

dp
12-29-2009, 01:48 AM
They are very good. The front load washer uses far less water which means the front load dryer tosses less of that into my shop.

When the little Mrs mentioned she wanted a new set I took her down to the store and bought them that day. Our bills have gone down and my tools don't rust near so bad!

EVguru
12-29-2009, 04:52 AM
I'm told the best washer is a Staber, both for wash quality and energy/water efficiency.

It's a horizontal drum top loader.

http://www.staber.com/

oldtiffie
12-29-2009, 05:02 AM
Sure, the front-loaders are more efficient by almost any measure.

But ask anyone who has back, knee or hip problems how they get on with the front-loaders.

How many here can confidently say that those "problems" won't apply to them or their wives over the useful life of those front-loaders?

Ridgerunner
12-29-2009, 07:09 AM
We have the LG washer and dryer front loaders in a stacked configuration and are very satisified. They do a great job and the washer does not use nearly as much water as our old unit. As has been said the clothes come from the washer almost dry. They are made so the doors can be switched to open from either side easily. One caution with any front loading washers; water can lay in the front gasket and cause fungus or other bad things to grow there and smell. I made a magnet and abs plastic hook setup to leave the door open an inch or two so this area can dry out.

Weston Bye
12-29-2009, 07:21 AM
... One caution with any front loading washers; water can lay in the front gasket and cause fungus or other bad things to grow there and smell. I made a magnet and abs plastic hook setup to leave the door open an inch or two so this area can dry out.

Bears repeating. We have a Maytag Neptune. My wife also carefully cleans the soap hopper after every use and props open the door for the soap hopper between uses.

Greg Q
12-29-2009, 07:24 AM
Sure, the front-loaders are more efficient by almost any measure.

But ask anyone who has back, knee or hip problems how they get on with the front-loaders.

How many here can confidently say that those "problems" won't apply to them or their wives over the useful life of those front-loaders?

That's true in our house, so I made a pedestal to raise the door up to a human height, with drawers. I saw a commercial version in white enamel recently in some flyer. Makes a good place to store all those "products" that multiply on the laundry room bench top.

Greg

(We now have an LG top loader for other reasons, and can report good service for the two years we've owned it.)

Black_Moons
12-29-2009, 07:38 AM
My grandparents have an intresting top loading washer... It spins the cloths up to I sware sounds like at least 1000rpm, sounds like a jet engine taking off!.. Has a locking top lid to prevent user injury.
Apparently its some ultra efficent one..

Woah, a shelf under the dryer.. that would be intresting...
ATM my dryer is used to hold my surface plate... Heh....

Duffy
12-29-2009, 07:54 AM
We have a TOP LOADING LG washer, and my wife thinks that it is just great. It is only about 24" square, but since it has no agitator, it will hold a queen-size down duvet with no difficulty. It also spins at a much higher speed and thus the clothes dry quicker. Duffy

airsmith282
12-29-2009, 07:56 AM
we go GE set here they are 7 years old now and at the time the most energy efficent and still are for some reason, also if you want more energy savings switch everything in the house and the to thoes flourescent bulbs 13watt _ 60 ones GE or sylivna bith work just as well ,

aboard_epsilon
12-29-2009, 09:11 AM
well you can make them efficient

first of all .i wouldn't buy a washer dryer ........as they are too complicated and break down ..and bang go your savings .

buy separate washer and dryer ..

make sure that the washer you buy has good progs in it ..........as most these days .........only put hot water in ...on the boil wash program ...cold for all others !!!

others put hot and cold in at the same time and heat it ..

smart ones ..........put hot water in ...........and put cold or hot in ..in small quantities that the require the heating element in the washing machines to do the minimum of work ..and reduce the overall washing cycle time.

the hard bit is finding out which these machines are .

the dryer ...........buy a condensing dryer .........and only dry clothes when the excess heat given off will heat your house and save on the main heating of the house.

all the best.markj

gellfex
12-29-2009, 08:42 PM
I just bought the LG set after much trauma. I simply don't trust this crap, and wouldn't touch a USA make again. I've heard the Stabers are only assembled here from import parts. So far so good, and it's got no vibration problems on the 2nd floor of a 100 year old brick building with wood joist and floors. However I did install a mud shower pan under it which I'm sure helps.

My Frigidaire front loader died a ridiculous death from poor design. These guys sell expensive machines that they take no responsibility for after 1 year. Most of these machines died within 5 years from either bad bearings or an aluminum spider casting in the drum that rotted from the wet alkali environment. See this video and commentary http://www.appliancejournal.com/appliance-repair-help/washer-repair/why-kenmore-front-load-washers-fail-271/

winchman
12-30-2009, 12:38 AM
"...top loading washer... It spins the cloths up to I sware sounds like at least 1000rpm..."

That sounds like our Fisher-Paykel washer. We've had it and the matching dryer since 2004 with no problems to date.

Roger

dp
12-30-2009, 12:47 AM
Sure, the front-loaders are more efficient by almost any measure.

But ask anyone who has back, knee or hip problems how they get on with the front-loaders.

How many here can confidently say that those "problems" won't apply to them or their wives over the useful life of those front-loaders?

Agreed there's no single solution for all possible life needs. I have a really bad back as a result of breaking it in a motorcycle race and later in life rupturing a disk with two subsequent surgeries. The front loader is far better for me as I can lift and stand with hands full of not that wet-and-heavy laundry and push it at chest level into the dryer. With the top loader I had to bend/lift/swing and it was that swing part that hurt the most. That was eliminated with the front loader twins.

aboard_epsilon
12-30-2009, 07:20 AM
I just bought the LG set after much trauma. I simply don't trust this crap, and wouldn't touch a USA make again. I've heard the Stabers are only assembled here from import parts. So far so good, and it's got no vibration problems on the 2nd floor of a 100 year old brick building with wood joist and floors. However I did install a mud shower pan under it which I'm sure helps.

My Frigidaire front loader died a ridiculous death from poor design. These guys sell expensive machines that they take no responsibility for after 1 year. Most of these machines died within 5 years from either bad bearings or an aluminum spider casting in the drum that rotted from the wet alkali environment. See this video and commentary http://www.appliancejournal.com/appliance-repair-help/washer-repair/why-kenmore-front-load-washers-fail-271/

Looks like the Americans have cottoned on to the European idea ..that washing machines are now only built for a 5-7 year life span .

No matter how much you complain ..you will never get them to build them to old designs that last, ever again.

You will find that different manufacturers all follow the basic same design now ..and the high end washers will have the same basic internals as the low end washers........the difference in the high end ones will just be spin speeds and electronics.

Washing machines are now a chuck away product ..
our basic washers cost about 200 300.... $317 -$475

Even our fridges and freezers now follow the same design principles ..now almost all fridge-freezers all have the same motor compressor........weather it be high end Bosch or low end becco.........7 years and they are toast.

You're just going to have to get used to it .and shop around ..only buy in the sales ....and expect them only to last a max of 7 years and min of 4 years.

sorry to load you with bad news ..

all the best.markj

GKman
12-30-2009, 08:38 AM
We just bought a conventional, top loading Matag (Whirlpool). The capacity is enormous yet when it quits spinning it looks empty, the clothes are smashed so tight against the drum and are virtually dry. Conventional controls. Don't think there are any circuit boards to fail. Look at circuit boards for appliance repair on eBay. BIG BUSINESS.

Unless you live in a scarce water, very high electric rate area, I don't think the energy savings amount to much compared to the purchase and repair costs. The real complaint from many owners is the long cycle time, like ONE AND A HALF HOURS per load. Check it out.

In summation, buy your wife whatever she wants.

tdkkart
12-30-2009, 09:33 AM
Fortunately I escaped making this decision/purchase a couple years ago. Our Kenmore washer/dryer pair, that we bought with our wedding money, were right at 20 years old and sure to die soon, and my wife had her eye on front loaders.
In timely fashion my Grandmother passed away and much to wifey's dismay we inherited her less than 1 year old top loaders. Problems solved, hopefully for at least 10 years or so.

Considering the price of front vs top loaders, they'd damn well better run for free in order to see any "efficiency" benefits.

laddy
12-30-2009, 09:54 AM
We have a top loader. There was an article in our newspaper a short while ago describing the problem of mold with the front loaders. Apparently a very bad problem from not being able to adequately drain the tub. Don't have one so can't speak first hand. My sister in Arizona has one and had the problem too.

gellfex
12-30-2009, 11:25 AM
Considering the price of front vs top loaders, they'd damn well better run for free in order to see any "efficiency" benefits.

You need to shop smart and shop sales. I bought the LG's during a HD Thanksgiving sale. $550 for an $800 washer. They had an Amana front loader for $400 that supposedly is made by Samsung. I would never pay the $1500 that some people are shelling out for these things. And in my experience with modern appliances, the electronics are the dependable part! It's the simple material science they seem to get wrong.

spope14
12-30-2009, 12:18 PM
I have been buying whirlpool, maytag and kenmore for years when I need to buy this stuff. Parts are easy to get almost anywhere if they breakdown. To me anyway, this means a lot. Top load washer, front load dryer. People tend to make fun of these units, but Ma in law had a really fancy unit about five years back, worked great - LG or something like that, front loader with all the gizmos and gadgets. Simple board died, she was washing clothes at our home for a month while an affordable part could be found.

I found my best energy savings were not so much from appliance selection, but in using them at the efficient settings. Cold water washing, single spin for after the rinse expect for a few situations, run at "normal" settings, not heavy duty unless you really need to - it is only three more minutes anyway and the agitator does not do anything magic. Keeping filters clean also does wonders as does keeping the machine itself cleaned out underneath and vaccing out the dryer casing and vent hose every year. The daughter moving out also helped.

I have yet to run across a washer that has a heating element for the water supply, this is new to me.....

oldtiffie
12-30-2009, 12:33 PM
You got a woman?

Yeah?

OK.

Ya got a washer-woman then. Just needs TLC and regular servicing.

Problem solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS3J-rHpuag

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=washerwoman&meta=&aq=0s&oq=washer+wo

gellfex
12-30-2009, 12:44 PM
I have been buying whirlpool, maytag and kenmore for years when I need to buy this stuff. Parts are easy to get almost anywhere if they breakdown. To me anyway, this means a lot.

Today, those 3 are often identical, whirlpool & maytag are 1 company and often rebadged as Kenmore, which makes nothing itself. That awful Frigidaire of mine was also rebadged as Kenmore. I think once upon a time Sears was precious about it's Kenmore brand, buying only the best quality. No longer, they get whatever is cheap and they can move. I have your "buy cheaply repaired American" philosophy when it comes to used cars, but I'm not sure it's as good for appliances. See that video I linked for why.

I had a Kenmore made by Whirlpool range that had the piezo igniters corrode to failure within 18 months. "sorry, that's out of warranty". It cost 20% of the purchase price for that out of pocket repair, with half the damn thing needing to be disassembled to thread a 4 foot lead from the burner to the terminal. I did it myself from them on, (being a regular thing of course) by simply pulling the sparking unit out, cutting the lead and putting on a new one with a ceramic wirenut.

aboard_epsilon
12-30-2009, 01:43 PM
I have been buying whirlpool, maytag and kenmore for years when I need to buy this stuff. Parts are easy to get almost anywhere if they breakdown. To me anyway, this means a lot. Top load washer, front load dryer. People tend to make fun of these units, but Ma in law had a really fancy unit about five years back, worked great - LG or something like that, front loader with all the gizmos and gadgets. Simple board died, she was washing clothes at our home for a month while an affordable part could be found.

I found my best energy savings were not so much from appliance selection, but in using them at the efficient settings. Cold water washing, single spin for after the rinse expect for a few situations, run at "normal" settings, not heavy duty unless you really need to - it is only three more minutes anyway and the agitator does not do anything magic. Keeping filters clean also does wonders as does keeping the machine itself cleaned out underneath and vaccing out the dryer casing and vent hose every year. The daughter moving out also helped.

I have yet to run across a washer that has a heating element for the water supply, this is new to me.....

They all have heating 2.5 kw elements in ..in the UK .

thats how they are built .

and have been built for the last 40 years

like i said .......how they use that element is the key to an efficient machine .

some only fill with hot only water on boil wash ..and fill with cold water on all other cycles and heat it to the correct temperature .
or a hot and cold inaccurate mix

some detect that there is warm or hot water coming into the washing machine and make best use of this ..only using the heating element sparingly.

but its imposable to find out which ones do this ...

my last washer .....a creda microelectronic with fussy logic did all this .it had an led display with the prog run time on ..and you could see it chopping the the wash time down as soon as it knew that hot water was entering ..you could hear it switching between hot and cold valves and making the adjustments .non of this cold and hot equal fill you get in the new trash these days ....and that was 15 years ago..ive not been able to find the same type of washer since .you cant even ask the sales persons whats what .they just don't know .all they know is its alphabetical gov test rating ....which is now rated on cold fill.

all the best.markj

Alistair Hosie
12-30-2009, 03:41 PM
I bought an american made tumble drier and washer both top loading. Usually here they have been front loading for years,but I prefer the American machines I bought them both 20 years ago they are used nearly every day and work just as well as the day we bought them try that with a front loader!Alistair