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davidh
12-31-2009, 02:31 PM
i have not complained too much about rising prices either on this forum or even in my every day contact with friends or customers, however, i just got my monthly electric bill that has been averaging $130 a month. not bad i figured considering everything i power up. on the "comment" part of the bill it reads:

"we have been informed by our energy supplier that there will be a significant increase in costs beginning in january. our wholesale prices dropped 6% from 2008 to 2009 but now are expected to go up by 38% for 2010"

holy crap ! i don't remember getting any kind of raise this year or last nor have i been able to raise my prices by more than a couple percent but our power supplier must be expecting me and my neighbors to pay for all the "green" energy the gov't. is insisting they find and use in the near future. those wind generators i know are expensive but .. .. .. ..

all i can say is "holy crap" hang on to your shorts, it seems to be coming our way.........................

davidh
retired but needing to work full time in my own business to make ends meet.

Carld
12-31-2009, 02:42 PM
They are anticipating the Cap and Trade bill to pass in 2010. It has been side lined as of now but may be brought up again and passed. If so the energy prices are expected to rise drastically and guess who will pay.

They will tax the power companies for emissions and the cattle farmers for the fart tax. You surely don't expect them to not pass the tax along to us do you?

TGTool
12-31-2009, 03:04 PM
We have an electricity price rise coming up here too. Kind of curious. It's primarily hydroelectric power. With the economic conditions there's been lower demand so they have to charge more for what they generate to pay the debt.

I wish I could do that in my shop. "So, you just need that one hole drilled and tapped? I'll have to charge $150 for that since I didn't have a customer all yesterday." :rolleyes:

MTNGUN
12-31-2009, 03:12 PM
We have an electricity price rise coming up here too. Kind of curious. It's primarily hydroelectric power.
Same here, hydro power, most of the dams built eons ago and long since paid for. Yet they claim their costs are going up ? Bull.

In fairness to the utility/monopolies, the supply of energy is limited, especially since coal is now frowned upon, yet as the population continues to increase energy demand will increase, too. I'll resist the urge to get up on my soapbox and tell you how I'd solve the world's problems, but ....... a picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/duggars.png

gnm109
12-31-2009, 03:12 PM
With Cap and Trade, energy prices are expected to double. That's a present from our new gummint. It's part of "Change you can believe in".


.

Carld
12-31-2009, 03:15 PM
Yep, the goberment can't wait to get there hands on the cow fart tax and the coal tax.

Tinkerer
12-31-2009, 03:26 PM
They are anticipating the Cap and Trade bill to pass in 2010. It has been side lined as of now but may be brought up again and passed. If so the energy prices are expected to rise drastically and guess who will pay.

They will tax the power companies for emissions and the cattle farmers for the fart tax. You surely don't expect them to not pass the tax along to us do you?
:mad: I agree they will be pushing this crap hard and fast.... cause they only have till Nov. to bury use as deep as they can. And if it does not pass the Utilities can pass out BIG BOUNCES to the brass. Either way we get it in the shorts. :eek:

JoeFin
12-31-2009, 03:43 PM
They are anticipating the Cap and Trade bill to pass in 2010. It has been side lined as of now but may be brought up again and passed. If so the energy prices are expected to rise drastically and guess who will pay.

They will tax the power companies for emissions and the cattle farmers for the fart tax. You surely don't expect them to not pass the tax along to us do you?

Way to much evidence pointing to the whole "Cap and Trade" policy as being a scam for it to pass

but you never know......

aboard_epsilon
12-31-2009, 03:51 PM
UK...we are going to have to sub the nuclear power stations being built ..think about 5 percent on our bills

we are currently paying about 0.12,5 a unit roughly 20 cents a unit

how much are you guys paying.

all the best.markj

Mark McGrath
12-31-2009, 05:10 PM
I`m paying 0.075 a kw on all kw. 0.125 sounds a lot.
Mark.

RichardG
12-31-2009, 05:11 PM
Wow, I wish my bill was only 130 a month. My bill is 309.00 a month and I'am on the budget plan ! We are sposed to have cheap electric here in the north west ,not!
Richard

aboard_epsilon
12-31-2009, 05:16 PM
thats with no standing charge and average of uk

Average uk electricity bill per unit

Based on average cost/kw-h across the UK as a whole (17 suppliers costs). on 13/12/2009 is: (17 suppliers X 17 tariffs divided by 17) = 12.25227p per kw-h of electricity. (Average across UK only!)

all the best.markj

macona
12-31-2009, 05:54 PM
Here in the Pacific Northwest the dams are run by the Army Corp of Engineers. Bonneville Power Administration gets the power from them for free (They dont pay to maintain the dams) and sells it to the local utilities.

Back when I did lighting we were paid to retrofit all the lighting in the Dalles, Bonneville, and John Day dams to save energy by BPA. Funny thing is the power that is used internally and on the dam site is separate from main power grid running off of "Fish Turbines" which run at all times no matter what.

MickeyD
12-31-2009, 06:18 PM
Coal prices have gone from $160 a ton to less than $60 and natural gas prices are at insanely low prices, so you can't blame the fuel. A lot of the price run up is coming from finance charges. Most power companies went through mergers during the last couple of years (they either bought someone or someone bought them) and used short term financing to pay for it. Because the cost of corporate financing has gone up dramatically (noticed what your credit card rates have done lately?) this all gets passed on to you. Hmm, can you say blame the banks?

rdfeil
12-31-2009, 07:05 PM
I am in central Washington state and our power prices are the lowest in the nation. The three counties with the lowest rates are Chelan, Douglas and Grant. These counties have Public Utility Districts which own and operate Hydro dams under license from the federal government, the Army Corp does not own nor operate these dams. There are other dams on the Columbia river which are indeed owned by Army Corp. Now for our problem.... our rates are also going up. There are several reasons for this, one is that the Public Utility Districts (PUDs) have invested many millions of dollars in non-power infrastructure (fiber optics (I love mine :D ), water and sewer) services. A lot of this money was bonded when the economy was in much better shape, but the payments still have to be made (the Chelan County PUD and a debt very close to 1 BILLION dollars yes $1,000,000,000.00). This is insane for a PUBLIC utility. Now on to the second problem, and this one applies to others as well. Our PUDs sell excess power to outside utilities at market grid rates. This price may well be 3-5 times what we as customers (owners) pay for power. Now we have had a fairly large influx of high-tech facilities (server farms) in our area recently which use a lot of power. They buy power at the normal customer rate because they are customers of the PUD. What this does is reduce the amount of power available to sell as excess at MUCH higher rates, thereby increasing income to the utility. So with less income guess who pays a higher rate :mad: .
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate our low power costs, I just wish that the PUDs would be open and honest about how things work.
A simple example of this.... Our PUD had a Energy savings program for industrial plants about 10 years ago where they would pay a large percentage (up to 75% if I remember right) of upgrade costs for lighting, process control, heating etc... for more efficient ways to do the same thing. This was done under the assumption that conservation is good for our community (it is but....). I later talked to one of the power brokers for the PUD and was told about the projected payback for these programs due to the profit in increased outside power sales.... less than 12 months payback :eek: .

Think about it...............

Robin

saltmine
12-31-2009, 07:09 PM
Somebody at the dam got a raise.

And I'll bet it wasn't one of the "mooks"...but a stupidvisor instead.

Alistair Hosie
12-31-2009, 07:09 PM
Far too much we had a massive increase recently my bills rose by about 40% or more.The electric companies just ripping us off.

Carld
12-31-2009, 07:54 PM
Right now our electricity is about 5.9 cents US per kilowatt hour, we are on Kentucky Utilities.

Louisville Gas and Electric in Louisville Ky sold the company to Eon of Germany. Can you believe that, they sold the golden goose to the Germans. Now the Germans have the Goose and the Louisville residents get goosed every month.

aboard_epsilon
12-31-2009, 08:24 PM
Right now our electricity is about 5.9 cents US per kilowatt hour, we are on Kentucky Utilities.

Louisville Gas and Electric in Louisville Ky sold the company to Eon of Germany. Can you believe that, they sold the golden goose to the Germans. Now the Germans have the Goose and the Louisville residents get goosed every month.

5.9 cents you must be living in luxury with all the spare cash you must have .......thats 1/4 of what we are paying...and probably the price we were paying 20 years ago.

all the best.and happy new year .

Ken_Shea
12-31-2009, 10:20 PM
I pay just short of .14 pkh

The killer, there is a 40x multiplier for business, so if I actually use, for example 50kh I would have to pay for 2000kh.
I keep a close eye on waste and it really helps keep the kh down but I do not understand the why of the 40x, oh, and the rate per kh is .02 higher as well.

Carld
12-31-2009, 10:29 PM
When I built our new home and shop here I got to be friends with the lineman/troubleshooter and I told him I have 3 ph machines and I wondered about getting a 3 ph line. He said it might be possible but there are higher rates for 3 ph and other fees. He said to keep on using the RPC it will be much cheaper.

So I did and it is.

vpt
12-31-2009, 10:59 PM
Boy I am glad I steal my power from the neighbor. :D

rdfeil
01-01-2010, 05:29 AM
Not trying to gloat, just showing how the profits I mentioned in my above post add up. It seemed appropriate after some of the other people here listed their power rates. Below is the rate schedule for a residential customer in Chelan County Washington (commercial services are very similar):

First 1,000 kWh – 2.29 cents
1001 to 2000 kWh – 2.84 cents
Over 2000 kWh – 2.99 cents
Basic charge – $7.20


The rates listed are per KWH. The basic charge is a 'meter read charge' which is a fixed monthly charge for having the power available.

As you can see for every KWH the local customers "SAVE" (read: make available to sell to other utilities) the higher the profit for the PUD. For example, I save 1000 KWH and reduce my bill by $29.90. Then our PUD sells that 1000 KWH to our machinist friends utility in California for $.08/KWH who then sell it to the customer for $.10 or more per KWH. This is a net profit for my PUD of about $50.00 or just shy of 167%, not bad. Our friends utility in California will make 25% so they are happy and our friend just sees the same rate so no surprises for him.

Obviously there are other costs involved so the numbers are not really accurate but the idea is absolutely spot on.

Rant OFF :rolleyes:

Robin

Evan
01-01-2010, 06:20 AM
The only way to beat the energy cost crunch is to conserve. Our bill is currently about $100 per month and less in summer and that includes electric hot water, clothes dryer and deep well pump as well as my shop use. I have only CFL and tube lighting and am starting to switch to LED.

This is my 15 watt LED back porch light. It replaced a 100 watt incandescent since CFL bulbs don't work in the cold. Outdoor security lighting is a natural for the new high power LEDs. I will be replacing my 300 watt floods with 30 watt LEDs in the near future using the same housings. The porch light cost about $20 to put together using an existing el cheapo work light housing which was $5. Pay off is around one year compared to the 100 watt running 10 hrs per day but the LEDs should last 10 to 20 years in this service.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/led7.jpg

spope14
01-01-2010, 08:55 AM
We get hit from 15 to 17 cents per KWH. Try to conserve, our bills keep going up. Used 20% to 40% less electric for Sept, Oct, Nov due to our daughter going to college and me running the house very efficiently, my bill hung around $85 to $93.00 regardless.

The kick in the pants are the administrative fees and service fees. My bill could NEVER go below $85.00 per month just due to base fees, even if I shut things off at the main.

aboard_epsilon
01-01-2010, 09:25 AM
well im going to have a try with these
seem the cheapest way of going about it ..
cheap chinese torch.......price 1
if i can find any more .at that price .

uses 1 amp at 3.75 volts
the amount of light it makes is incredable
several (15)dotted about the place powerd by a nice power supply should do the job

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/workshop/torch.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/workshop/torchint1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/workshop/torchint2.jpg

all the best.markj

aboard_epsilon
01-01-2010, 09:30 AM
We get hit from 15 to 17 cents per KWH. Try to conserve, our bills keep going up. Used 20% to 40% less electric for Sept, Oct, Nov due to our daughter going to college and me running the house very efficiently, my bill hung around $85 to $93.00 regardless.

The kick in the pants are the administrative fees and service fees. My bill could NEVER go below $85.00 per month just due to base fees, even if I shut things off at the main.

that's more like it

how come such a massive difference across the usa ..

in the uk if you think one supplier is to expensive you can move to any other .

but makes only a couple of percent difference to us .but to you. would make a massive percent difference .

all the best.markj

Evan
01-01-2010, 09:44 AM
The difference depends on the power source. There are 4 main sources, hydro, coal, nuclear and natural gas. Hydroelectric power is by far the cheapest and nuclear or natural gas the most expensive.


If the US really wants to reduce carbon emissions they should close down Las Vegas. It burns an entire trainload of coal every single day.

Black_Moons
01-01-2010, 10:51 AM
Amen to that evan. Las vegas is just a giant waste of money and energy on all sides. WTF is the point of a city wasteing billions of KWH on neon lights?
Built in the middle of nowhere with no natural resources, no fresh water and no productive industry.
AFAIK they recommend not even drinking the ground water there because A: thier water table has sunk and is sinking the town, and B: its not safe to drink after 20,000,000 people pissed god knows what medication into it.
<endrant>

ckalley
01-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Here in Connecticut, I am paying $.16 per KWH delivered, not counting the fixed charge for reading the meter, sending you a bill, TV commercials, etc. As they burn out I am replacing most of the incandesent bulbs with CFL's. I have about 400W of tubular flourescents in my shop.

I just signed up with one of the alternate power suppliers and that saved me $.02 per KWH (was paying $.18). If you look at the bill, over half of the total is transmission charges, taxes and other fees. At least 2 other alternate suppliers are advertising (heavily) that they can save you 20% on your electric bill. Based on my research, MAYBE they could save you that much on the power generation part of the bill but not the total. Guess they figure people are stupid......

Of course the idiot that represnets my district in the state legislature introduces a bill to do away with the alternate suppliers. "This will reduce your power bill" according to her. More idiots!

In a recent thread about CFL's, some one summed it up exactly... The best energy saving bulb is one that is OFF!

Craig