PDA

View Full Version : Project I have been working on for a while



Carld
12-31-2009, 03:12 PM
Any Porsche people that rebuild trannys will recognize this tool. A friend of my sons works on foreign cars and he asked me to make these tools for sale. They are now available from him.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j276/yeathatshim/PC310002.jpg

Ken_Shea
12-31-2009, 04:25 PM
Look really good Carl, hope he sells a bunch of them for you to make.
Never having worked on a Porsche Tranny, what are their function?

EVguru
12-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Looks like a crownwheel depthing or bearing preload tool.

I HATE Porsches.

Every time I've had to work on one I've ended up cursing the Porsche family back seven generations. For every part of the car that's an elegant piece of engineering, there seems to be another piece that makes you want to use it to beat the designer to death. Have you seen how thick the catalogues are with fixes for all the design faults?!

VW were sucessfully sued over the Type 1 by Tatra. It seems a Mr Porsche walked off with a load of drawings.


I'd much rather work on a Lotus.

saltmine
12-31-2009, 07:14 PM
I thought Porsches didn't wear out??

Same here...Old Grandpa Porsche usually spins in his grave every time I've had to tangle with one.

Typical German engineering...Take something elegantly simple and complicate the crap out of it.

If something needs to be checked or replaced frequently, make it impossible to get at without taking the whole car apart.

The only thing Ferry Porsche designed right was the Chevy Corvair.


BTW, it's a pinion depth gaging set.....Probably cost somebody about $1200

Carld
12-31-2009, 07:30 PM
They can be difficult to work on. The tool is to set the pinion depth in the case to get the right gear engagement of wear pattern.

He has three of them sold already and has some thinking about ordering one. The one in the photo is for two different type tranny/rear ends. He may want me to make one for just the larger tranny/rear end. I don't know the models they work on but I think it's the 911 and 914.

My son has a 914 that he put a V6 ford engine in. It turned out real nice but it was a lot of work and he still has some changes to make. The brakes and cooling system was tricky. He modified the tranny from 5 speed to 4 speed and changed the gear ratios around.

Doozer
12-31-2009, 09:06 PM
"...914 that he put a V6 ford engine in."

That is cool. What liter?
My friend had a 914. I put floors in it.
He told me the slant 4 was also used in an AMC Gremlin?
I guess it does stand for All Mistakes Combined.

--Doozer

Carld
12-31-2009, 10:34 PM
I just called and he said it's a 3.8L and I asked him to send some photo's. I had some but deleted them a while back.

EVguru
01-01-2010, 04:07 AM
One of the Porsches I worked on was a 914 with 916 bodykit and a Lingenfelter 383 SBC (dyno sheet for 480hp out of the crate). The transplant wasn't done very well, but at least it had the G50 five speed as used in the 930 Turbo. I made up some gearbox mountings that meant that it would actually go into gear reliably rather than the entire transmission moving backwards and forwards and repaired the throttle pedal. i also made a progressive cable plate to fit the Holley (alleged carburettor). The original throttle linkage made the car nearly undrivable, but only gave 2/3 of full travel.

914 braking system. Only Porsche would think that a car with a rear weight bias would need a pressure limiting valve in the rear circuit and then make it the highest point in the hydraulic system with no provision for bleeding.

The cure. Take out the limiting valve and replace it with a plain T. Change the front calipers for a pair off (as I recall) a BMW 318i. They are a larger bore (same as 911 or 914/6) to match the now unrestricted rear calipers and take a larger pad. They do need their mounting ears machined a little to centre the caliper on the disc.

The 914 with SBC was fitted with 928 brakes.

914Wilhelm
01-01-2010, 04:58 AM
Here the one I'm building. 930 transaxle with a GM LS2 motor.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87896

Evan
01-01-2010, 08:08 AM
Porche? Feh. Get a real car.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics/gt40.jpg

John Stevenson
01-01-2010, 08:12 AM
They pinched the OHC cam arrangement off AJS motorcycles anyway, in fact some parts are interchangeable.

Carld
01-01-2010, 09:13 AM
My son made changes to the brakes on his 914. I will find out what he has done to the car and post some photo's. He and Tony go to swap meets and buy and sell cars and parts. My son is the treasurer of the Lou Ky Porsche club. He helps organize their race meets also.

Evan, yep, I am a Ford fan and my dream car is a real 289 Ford Shelby Cobra but I would settle for a replica car. I just don't have the money to build or buy one. My next want is a '32 Ford Roadster with a V8 Flathead engine. I came real close to finding one last summer, it had sold just before I got there and was all original in the rough but drivable.:( better luck next time.

winchman
01-01-2010, 09:43 AM
I'd like to see a picture of the tool in use. I'm curious about how the part that looks like a differential carrier is positioned.

I'd take a half dozen (or more) of these
http://www.autotropolis.com/images/still_0320/4833/4833_st0320_046.jpg
for the GT40.

Roger

A.K. Boomer
01-01-2010, 09:58 AM
The thing that I remember most about a porsche trans ( a 911/S ) is that like typical - all forward gears are helical - and like typical all helical gears create side thrust (loads) and therefore all have thrust washers, all exceptin 5th gear, for 5th gear they utilize a high precision needle bearing thrust washer, Just one of those little hints about the cars origins and where it was designed to be driven (autobahn)

Transmissions that don't have oil pumps are actually limited to how fast you can run them as they will cut out a swath around all the gears and teeth as they "air fan" most lubrication away from contacting - this is really critical for the smaller internal thrust plates and washers stuck way inside, internal horizontal rollers and needles have a much better survival rate due to being able to hold the fluids from instantly escaping.

I don't believe porsche actually had the foresight to stick that needle thrust in 5th gear before anything "bad" happened - I believe as the cars got faster they found out the hard way.

Carld - im understanding the tool you built and even guessed its use before reading - but I don't believe it to be any better than the two mating surfaces themselves --- I simply put an extremely light coating of prussion blue on the ring and install a clean pinon, then rotate pinon in forward direction of drive with ring under slight load - I check free play then make an assessment on the shimming - generally never have to do a thing but in the case I do I usually can get it first stab, If you cant get to the pinon (if its a split case and the drive gears are pulled ) you can simply install its bearings with heavy grease and rotate the ring against it. :confused:

Evan
01-01-2010, 10:35 AM
Roger,

That car is butt ugly in my book. It has no character. It kinda looks like it melted in the sun. BTW, an original Ford GT40 goes for as much as a million or more depending on it's history.

saltmine
01-01-2010, 10:59 AM
That's the thing I've seen that is almost a cardinal sin; The cars are so expensive that only some extremely wealthy SOB can afford to buy them, then they sit somewhere in storage, or on display until all of the rubber rots off of them.

A real automobile enthusiast, unless he's rich, never gets to experience the joy of a purpose built, true thoroughbred sports car.

Of course, some thoroughbreds, wouldn't bring the heady prices they do if somebody had to drive them daily.

GT-40 is a beautiful car. But, it's racing Ford V-8 engine drinks oil excessively (for normal driving), the transmission is hard to shift, and the clutch requires a left leg right out of a body builder's gym, and most drivers have to wear a kidney belt to stay intact, during long races. Make mine a Z06 Corvette...

Mcgyver
01-01-2010, 11:15 AM
I
If something needs to be checked or replaced frequently, make it impossible to get at without taking the whole car apart.


I'm sure you won't have much good to say about Ferrari then :D . Timing belts, every three year PM replacement and its a 10k job. rear suspension and motor lowered to get access :eek:. This is for a car that if you drive it a lot maybe you're putting 5-8k a year on. The Ferrari dealerships, in their unwavering ascent of mount Arrogant, optimize pricing.....ok, 10k and come back in 6 weeks...oh, you don't want to miss the summer, 18k come back in a week

Carl, part looks good, no idea what its for :D looks like a casting - did you have that made?

Black_Moons
01-01-2010, 11:58 AM
mmm new 'progressive' throttle linkage? That sounds like a project my new truck needs....
It lurchs if you don't feather the pedal, And most of my driving is done with the pedal down about 1/2", yet theres not really that much more power past that.. at least it sure isent very linear, well, Till it downshifts on me anyway.

Carld
01-01-2010, 12:18 PM
It's very similar to the factory tool to set the pinion and in fact we used the factory tool he bought from a friend to work this one out using the ring gear carrier. You could use blueing to set the pinion with but you would have to take the tranny apart several times to do it. With this tool you only do it once and the pinion is set to the correct depth or height or correct pattern of gear engagement, however you want to call it.

His web site is www.stuttgartspecialists.com but I don't think the tool is shown there. Contact him, he may have photo's since I think he is selling them on ebay.

Anyway, it will bring a little extra money in for me and I like that. It's not like he will be selling a lot of them since it is a specialty tool that only a shop or racer would own.

Doozer
01-01-2010, 12:28 PM
" It kinda looks like it melted in the sun."

...or got passed through the large intestine.

--Doozer

Dave Converse
01-01-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm sure you won't have much good to say about Ferrari then :D . Timing belts, every three year PM replacement and its a 10k job. rear suspension and motor lowered to get access :eek:. This is for a car that if you drive it a lot maybe you're putting 5-8k a year on. The Ferrari dealerships, in their unwavering ascent of mount Arrogant, optimize pricing.....ok, 10k and come back in 6 weeks...oh, you don't want to miss the summer, 18k come back in a weekKinda reminds me of my employment at a Ferrari dealership many years ago when the standard answer to this was "If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it." Sad, but still quite true.

saltmine
01-01-2010, 01:49 PM
Like buying a yacht (or any boat)....."If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it."

Which is probably why you won't see too many Porsches or Ferraris running around with 100K miles on them.

EVguru
01-01-2010, 04:27 PM
Porche? Feh. Get a real car.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics/gt40.jpg

Oh look, a LOLA!

winchman
01-01-2010, 04:38 PM
"...butt ugly...no character."

Maybe that's why I find it so comfy and mucho fun to drive. It's just like me. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/winchman/pics%20to%20save/Roger-1.jpg

But, it did make the Ten Most Beautiful Cars of the Last Decade list with some pretty pricey company.

http://www.windingroad.com/articles/lists/list-the-ten-most-beautiful-cars-of-the-last-decade/#6

Roger

EVguru
01-01-2010, 04:43 PM
mmm new 'progressive' throttle linkage? That sounds like a project my new truck needs....
It lurchs if you don't feather the pedal, And most of my driving is done with the pedal down about 1/2", yet theres not really that much more power past that.. at least it sure isent very linear, well, Till it downshifts on me anyway.

It was just 'snail' cam filed out of bit of gash 1/8" alloy sheet with a couple of 1/16" pieces pop riveted on either side to form the cable groove. I measured the needed cable travel and roughly mapped it out on an approx 90 degree segment of the plate.

The guy who onwed the car had bankrolled and driven the electric Porsche 914 race car that year. I had a couple of day before I flew back to the UK and was just shooting the breeze with the owner of the garage where we prepped the race car and doing odd jobs. I'd seen how bad the original throttle linkage was and eventually it annoyed me so much, I had to fix it.

The owner was delighted, he couldn't believe how much more controllable it was. He also hadn't realised how much extra power was being hidden by the limited travel. Now the 345/45-17s would allow him to pop wheelies by rolling on the power in 2nd gear.

EVguru
01-01-2010, 04:48 PM
The prettiest Le Mans car ever built in my eyes;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Ferrari-330p3-2.jpg

BobWarfield
01-01-2010, 05:45 PM
If you like that one, there are quite a few more from when the Monterey Historics had Ferrari as the featured marque:

http://www.thewarfields.com/MRYRaces2004a.htm

Cheers,

BW

Evan
01-01-2010, 05:51 PM
Looks like somebody took a GT40 and first over inflated it and then let some of the air out...:D


Want ugly? this is the ugliest car I have seen. :D

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics/yuck.jpg

Arcane
01-01-2010, 06:06 PM
For comparison with the photoshopped one...
http://www.uawlocal211.org/images/events/Chevy_Camaro.jpg

Guido
01-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Jim Hall and his Chapparals seemed to have epitomized the homeshop machinist bunch. It took oil money, but he could beat the best.

A world class racer/builder, Hall was the first to play with ground effects design and win at Indy. Second to play with a wing, first to use a moveable wing. Among the first to get his designs/thinking banned from world class racing. Modern race driving with the driver on the CL of the car.

Among the more successful racers to get his 'parts and research' funded by GM's Chevy, via the 'back door' after dark.

Next time your're near Midland, Texus, check out Hall's oil patch museum and his Rattlesnake Raceway, a duplicate of Indy for 'testing' purposes only.

G
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p86/Guido_album/chap2e.jpg

Evan
01-01-2010, 06:36 PM
All I did was turn the front upside down. At least it doesn't look like a smirk then.

Oldbrock
01-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Son and I used to regularly beat all the porches in the vintage class with a turbo '71 240Z on the race track. Quietest car on the track too. Peter

boslab
01-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Oh look, a LOLA!
GT40, its nice to see you yanks appreciate good old fashoned british design [lol], i cant wait for the heat, tounge in cheek, Ford Advanced Vehicles in good old londinium?, i think i'm up for a beating,its good to see our Arian masters being kicked up the arse [even if i do have an audi A6,an wish it was an A8]
happy new year
mark

J Tiers
01-01-2010, 10:05 PM
Kinda reminds me of my employment at a Ferrari dealership many years ago when the standard answer to this was "If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it." Sad, but still quite true.

Unless you ask the price, you can't write the check..........
.
.
.
.
.
All I need to know about Porsche, M-B, Audi, BMW et al is that any day of the week, I'll stop in front of one to let some schlemeil in a beater get through....... it's just a standard reaction, let the %^$#@ batard wait.

Carld
01-01-2010, 11:19 PM
I never have understood why people despise a brand of car. It's just a car and if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. If it's the attitude of the owners of a certain brand I think that could be said about any brand of car.

There are snooty Chevy owners and snooty Ford owners, etc., etc. on through all the brands. While I do have my favorite brand and model of cars I like them all for what they are, a car. Some are pretty and some are ugly but they are cars that someone likes.

The car is inanimate so if the driver pisses you off drag him out and roll him in the gravel.

Yankee1
01-02-2010, 12:47 AM
Hello Carld
We used the same setup on the Renault. It sure saves a lot of time setting the pinion depth. We had different spacer washers to change the piinion protrusion into the differential case. The pieces that replace the carrier bearings were adjustable in order to obtain the correct backlash.
After getting the correct backlash we would remove them and mike them to determine how many shims to use under the carrier bearing races.
Good tools.