PDA

View Full Version : Quick Change 30 Tool Holders



japcas
01-02-2010, 11:51 PM
Are the Quick Change 30 tool holders still readily available? A mill that is for sale locally has them but I didn't see very many of them listed on ebay. This is the kind of tool holder that some bridgeports used that had a collar that was tightened to lock them in the taper. We had 2 machines at work that had this system but you never seem to see them advertised anymore. I may not be looking in the right spots either. The mill that is for sale has 4 tool holders with them but I know I need way more than that.

rdfeil
01-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Jonathan,

I think the quick change or quick switch 30 tool holders are available but they are expensive. I have a BP that has the quick change spindle also. My mill did not come with any tooling so I removed the quick change lock collar and made a 1/2 draw-bar and went with NMTB 30 tooling and have never looked back. I understand that not all 30 spindles are hollow, if it is not then there is no way to use a draw-bar. Check to see if you can run a piece of 1/2 all-thread through the spindle and that will let you know. I simply made my draw-bar out of 1/2 X 13 grade 8 all-thread and a couple of grade 8 coupling nuts pined to the top. Add a flat washer to protect the spindle top and you are good to go with much cheaper tooling.

Robin

Timleech
01-03-2010, 04:51 AM
I think ISO30 is defined so that it fits QC30 spindles, a lot of new 30 taper stuff sold this side of the pond is made to ISO30, after all it doesn't really cost any more to make it that way. No idea what the situation is in the US, though. If you're buying new, the vendors ought to be able to tell you.

My experience with secondhand is that some bought as 30 International (NMTB) will fit qc30, some won't

Tim

Mark McGrath
01-03-2010, 05:02 AM
ISO 30 is not QC30 and the ISO 30 does not fit the QC30 spindle.The QC30 holder has a smaller diameter flange than an ISO 30 and it`s also thicker on the flange.
You may get holders sold as ISO30 to fit the QC30 but that is because the seller has named them wrong and they are indeed QC30.
Quick Switch 30 is something different again.
Mark.

Timleech
01-03-2010, 05:52 AM
ISO 30 is not QC30 and the ISO 30 does not fit the QC30 spindle.The QC30 holder has a smaller diameter flange than an ISO 30 and it`s also thicker on the flange.
You may get holders sold as ISO30 to fit the QC30 but that is because the seller has named them wrong and they are indeed QC30.
Quick Switch 30 is something different again.
Mark.

OK, my mistake, ISO30 isn't defined to fit QC30, but I have bought new stuff labelled as ISO30 which was sold as also fitting QC30 (and it does), obviously I've made a wrong extrapolation that it all does ;)

If you're buying used, the diameter of the flange should be a good indication as to whether it'll fit the QC spindle.

Tim

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 06:48 AM
Arceurotrade in the UK carries these.
They have had them made specially because there are a lot of the Boss series machines now getting into private hands.

As Mark has said these have a special smaller / thicker flange to fit these machines. They only carry one size and that is 30 INT with an ER32 collet fitting.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Collets-Collet-Chucks/ER32-Collets-Collet-Chucks

Near the bottom of this page.

.

jacampb2
01-03-2010, 08:55 AM
Take a look at this: NMTB/QC discussion (http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html#Erick)

My B'port has a #30 Erickson QC spindle. Solid spindle, so no chance of retrofitting a draw bar if I wanted to (which I don't). Most of the NMTB#30 stuff I have bought has worked just find with the QC setup. Long story short, the Erickson QC was designed to work with the NMTB spec, the problem that arose was that not all manufacturers adhered strictly to the specification. The critical dimension to make the lock work is the length from the gauge line to the flange face. This is of little consequence in a draw bar #30 spindle, so as I understand it, it is not as well controlled. Most of the NMTB stuff that didn't fit for me had a flange that was to thick. You can take a little off it on the lathe and be fine.

Another option is to remove the collar dog screws in the QC lock nut. This allows a wider range of flange thickness, and works just fine. The biggest issue with this is that the 1/4 turn release will no longer work, you have to back the lock nut off almost all the way to pop the taper free, and it can be a bit fiddly to line it up correctly until you get the hang of it. Not the solution for a production shop, as it slows tool change down, but it is fine for the home shop where you have more time than money!

Later,
Jason

Sparky_NY
01-03-2010, 09:39 AM
I just retrofitted a bridgeport v2e3 cnc mill that has the quick change spindle. My old mill had kwik switch 200 spindle so I needed all new tooling.

I found NMTB 30 tooling, compatible with the erickson quick change system (on the bridgeport) very easy to find and cheap. I got about 30 holders, all from ebay, all $35 or less each, some brand new, many as low as 20. There are many brand new ones on there now, at $30-$35 ea, "Lyndex" brand, which are extremely nice and compatible with your bridgeport.

Just search for "NMTB 30", also try "erickson quick change" and "quick change 30". Read descriptions for compatibility or ask the sellers.

BUT, as mentioned above, not all NMTB 30 will fit the quick change spindle. The "Lyndex" brand will, as will bison, erickson and some others. Some say "Erickson qualified", this means they fit the quick change system. As said, you can modify the other holders to fit, but why bother when they can be had so cheaply?

Here is a couple links to holders to get you started:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lyndex-NMTB-30-End-Mill-Holder-5-8_W0QQitemZ180449956669QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Tool_ Work_Holding?hash=item2a03a7d33d

http://cgi.ebay.com/ERICKSON-QUICK-CHANGE-NMTB-30-3-16-END-MILL-HOLDER_W0QQitemZ380166486574QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_ Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item5883b03a2e

motorworks
01-03-2010, 10:35 AM
I have NMTB 30 on my BP Cnc mill
Bison makes them and I purchased through KBC or Travers

http://www.toolmex.com/products/bison-workholding/

You can get them in a set with ER32 Collects.They are excellent.


I also got some from Kennametal.Very good as well

Be careful if you buy used on ebay.I purchased what looked to be nice and it turned out to be crashed tooling that was reblackened :(

eddie

j king
01-03-2010, 10:35 AM
I got lucky when I bought my BP. It had a bunch of tooling that came with it.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/ikimjing/cncmillpics007.jpg

japcas
01-03-2010, 10:59 AM
Thanks for the infor guys. The mill had some holders that wouldn't fit and I'm sure they are NMTB 30. The owner of the mill has never ran it and didn't even realize that part of the holders weren't right. I kind of figured that the nmtb holders could be set up in the lathe and the flange turned down and thinned to the specs of the QC 30. I also saw a lot of nmtb 30 tooling on ebay and as was said it is fairly affordable. And if the spindle does have a through hole in it I wouldn't mind building a power draw bar and installing a regular drawbar but this is on a cnc Tree mill and it was built for QC 30 so it may be like the bridgeport boss and not have a through hole in it. Thanks again guys for your help.

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 11:12 AM
Problem is most of the flanges are larger but thinner, just turning them down means they fit but don't tighten.

I got a load of holders with my mill but they are all mismatched 100 series, 200 series, end mill holders in imperial and the odd one in metric.

I don't have full sets of 100 and 200 DA collets and at only 1/2mm [ 0.020" ] clamping range I don't propose buying any as they would work out too expensive.

I have gradually sold the lot off on Ebay and made decent prices and replaced with all ER32 chucks.

The big mill is on INT 40 and this is also on ER32, in fact I have just bought 20 collet chucks off ebay for under 10 each and the seller has found another 8 which he's sending as well plus some gear for Tim Leech so I'm fully tooled up on ER series so each chuck can hold anything I want and not reliant on one size for one chuck.

japcas
01-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Problem is most of the flanges are larger but thinner, just turning them down means they fit but don't tighten.

Actually John, the other holders that he had had a noticably thicker flange than the Quick 30 tools he had that fit the spindle. And I'm positive the ones that fit were quick 30 because we have 2 machines at work with these.

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 11:34 AM
Jonathan,

That maybe I don't know as there are many sizes out there, what I do know and this is for reference is that the OD of flange is 46.02mm or 1.812" and the flange width is 8.76mm or 0.345".

This is from the original works drawing.

japcas
01-03-2010, 11:47 AM
Jonathan,

That maybe I don't know as there are many sizes out there, what I do know and this is for reference is that the OD of flange is 46.02mm or 1.812" and the flange width is 8.76mm or 0.345".

This is from the original works drawing.

Is this info for the Quick 30 or the nmtb John? This would be good info to have. Are there any websites with the milling machine taper diimensions that any of you know about?

jacampb2
01-03-2010, 12:13 PM
Is this info for the Quick 30 or the nmtb John? This would be good info to have. Are there any websites with the milling machine taper diimensions that any of you know about?

Read the link I posted earlier. It has all the taper dimensions.


What John is describing matches up with the ISO#30 taper, which has a thinner and larger diameter flange than the NMTB#30, but the same taper.

Later,
Jason

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Unfortunately it depends on what standard you are looking at.
in the 30 series I have specs on the following.

JT30
BT30
ST30
JT30U
CAT30
JT30WA
C30
NMTB30
ISO30
INT30

None have the same flange as the one that fits the Bridgeport, I won't give it a name as I'm not sure myself what it's correct name is, if it has one.

All these above have the same taper and gauge line, where they differ is in whether they have the short parallel part on the end and the flange details which usually relate to auto toolchangers on CNC's

japcas
01-03-2010, 12:55 PM
That's a good link Jason. I didn't see it earlier. I'll check it out and archive that info. Thanks for your help to John.

Mark McGrath
01-03-2010, 05:08 PM
What John is describing matches up with the ISO#30 taper, which has a thinner and larger diameter flange than the NMTB#30, but the same taper.

Later,
Jason

What John has described is the QC30 taper.Originally made by Bristol Ericsson.
I can`t remember the flange diameter of the top of my head but I know that the QC30 flange is about 8.75mm thick compared to NMTB30 which is 8mm thick.I`m sure the ISO30 and NMTB30 have the same flange dimensions but will check tomorrow.

Mark.

jacampb2
01-03-2010, 05:30 PM
What John has described is the QC30 taper.Originally made by Bristol Ericsson.
I can`t remember the flange diameter of the top of my head but I know that the QC30 flange is about 8.75mm thick compared to NMTB30 which is 8mm thick.I`m sure the ISO30 and NMTB30 have the same flange dimensions but will check tomorrow.

Mark.

Look away, but you are incorrect :D

Maybe a little bit of a misunderstanding, when John said this:


what I do know and this is for reference is that the OD of flange is 46.02mm or 1.812" and the flange width is 8.76mm or 0.345".

He was quoting the specification for both NMTB#30 and Erickson QC#30

I was referring to the several comments he made that said that a lot of the #30 taper holders out there have a larger diameter flange which is thinner, preventing it from being used. The ISO#30 taper is 50mm diameter flange and 8mm thick. It won't work.

As I said before, the erickson QC was meant to work with the NMTB standard tapers, but the dimensions had to be tightly controlled for the length from the gauge line to the taper face. This doesn't always happen, but the NMTB's that don't work, are almost always to long from gauge line to flange face. There is a lot of info out there on this and I did my research because I did not want to spend the premium bucks on the QC branded stuff. I have lots of NMTB tooling that I use in QC spindle, and I did nothing but the modification I mention earlier to the lock ring.

Later,
Jason

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Look away, but you are incorrect :D

Maybe a little bit of a misunderstanding, when John said this:



He was quoting the specification for both NMTB#30 and Erickson QC#30



Later,
Jason

Sorry no The NMTB#30 is 50mm diameter and only 8 mm thick, just been out to measure one but realised I have sold them all and only have QC#30's left.
Came back in and dug the British Standards out to get the exact measurement.

I do know this as I tried to alter some by skimming the larger OD down but because of the smaller flange thickness they won't tighten.

It was because of this I got ARC to get some made in China.

.

Mark McGrath
01-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Look away, but you are incorrect :D

He was quoting the specification for both NMTB#30 and Erickson QC#30
The ISO#30 taper is 50mm diameter flange and 8mm thick. It won't work.
I have lots of NMTB tooling that I use in QC spindle, and I did nothing but the modification I mention earlier to the lock ring.

Later,
Jason

How can you say the NMTB tooling fits the QC30 taper and you did nothing but modify the lock ring.Modifying something is not nothing.
The QC is 8.78 and the NMTB is 8mm thick and you can`t change that,and the reason I know is that I have three machines running 30 tapers and the only interchangeable ones are the ISO and NMTB if you use different drawbars.