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Tony
01-03-2010, 06:55 AM
Greets all. Hope everyone had a good / fun / safe new years.

Have been thinking about breathing some new life into this vise:

I got it with my bridgeport, and its been a good workhorse vise .. but theres
a few things that have kept it from really shining. Its a bit buggered, so
don't mind the holes :) -- but have a look at the bottom -- the slides in
particular.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise2.jpg

Before they get to the fixed jaw, the casting tapers in. Those aren't
broken or cut .. they're cast that way.

Also, the top flats of the slides stop about 1/8" short of the fixed jaw.
This has always made using thin parallels a bit of a pain in the bum.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise3.jpg

So I think this thing is cast steel. Judging by the way it cuts :)
And I'm considering welding up the slides -- making them the same
width all the way to the fixed jaw.. and filling in the part right under
the fixed jaw. Then machining it back down.

Tig welding, slow build-up. Steel rod.

I doesn't look like there would be any collisions with the parts of the
moving jaw. But I'm wondering if I might not be doing more damage by
welding. Like giving it a place to start a fracture.

Thoughts? Buy a new machinist vise and only use this one for the rough
and tumble? Thats what I'm thinking too.

This vise has no adjustment gibs. Just some steel flats bolted to the
bottom of the moving jaw. But its got absolutely no slop, and, surprisingly,
jaw lift is almost zero.. so if I can make it more useful, that'd be slick.

-Tony

(thats odd, I've only put in 3 pictures.. and I get an error saying I've added
5 and can only do 4 .. but deleting one link makes it work.. so only two
pictures it is).

Tony
01-03-2010, 06:57 AM
Here's the whole vise that I meant to add in my first post:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise1.jpg

Peter N
01-03-2010, 07:04 AM
Tony, the smiley is counted as a picture, so that's what limits the photos.

Back to the vice - are those sides straight/parallel and not tapered?
I have a nice Abwood vice that's seen better days and often thought of repairing that.
However, rather than welding what I thought of doing was machining the base back than fitting a piece of gauge plate with c/sunk screws and then grind it back flat and square to the base.
Only works like that if you have a surface grinder of course, but milling and stoning would produce a similar effect.

Peter

strokersix
01-03-2010, 07:12 AM
A thicker jaw insert would fix the thin parallel problem.

Doc Nickel
01-03-2010, 07:19 AM
I'd be very surprised if it's cast steel. It's much more likely to be ductile iron at best.

In which case welding is a nonstarter- you'd do more damage than good.

Stroke's got a good idea- make a thicker fixed jaw insert. Or one with a "step" at the bottom to help fill the gap, with a slightly longer tongue in the center where the recessed area is.

Doc.

Your Old Dog
01-03-2010, 07:24 AM
I can't offer much advice on your vice but can tell you what a joy it is to have decent vice under the quill. I have a decent import that I paid around $150.00 with the rotary bottom piece. It is true to my mill and makes using parallels very reliable. If it were mine, I'd relegate it to the drill press and buy you self a nice Kurt look-a-like. Mine came from Enco with the free shipping deal.

This is the one I use. If you're short on cash, well I understand that too as I've been there done that!

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00UeBQcfpoFtrTM/Accu-Lock-Precision-Machine-Vice-QM16-.jpg

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 07:27 AM
These are 8" copies of a Vertex vise, I have a few kicking about.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/millvise1.jpg

These two in the pic have different depths of slot cut in them but they were bought at the same time.
It is a nuisance having that gap but I tend to use wide packings or if I have to use thin ones I drop one of the others down to act as a base.

I do have wider jaws but they are a lot higher. This pair are cast iron, not steel as I had to modify the slots in the side so that I can use them as patched pairs. No idea where mine were made but they are not genuine Vertex, having said that I have had this pair in constant use for 12 - 15 years with no problems.

.

Tony
01-03-2010, 07:41 AM
holy smokes that was quick. thanks.

Thicker fixed jaw -- why didn't I think of that? pure genius.

John, yours look to have an oiling port back by the handle. I might just
add one. Couldn't hurt the vise. Funny to see that eye bolt on there too,
these things sure are heavy (50#?).

-Tony

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 07:52 AM
Tony, I fitted the eye bolt, all the mills have cranes attached and the other heavy gear like dividing heads also have eye bolts.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Bridgycrane1.jpg

When the vise is fitted the eye bolt lives in the hook of the crane so It doesn't get lost.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/beavercrane1.jpg

.

Black_Moons
01-03-2010, 07:53 AM
I somehow assume the gap is left there so there is a place for swaff to go, especialy when you fully close the vise or slide a parallel against the jaw.. but yea, its an annoying gap isent it? seems like it should at least be much smaller

JoeFin
01-03-2010, 09:00 AM
Tony -

You can weld it up using Ni Rod. Just be sure to preheat the cast iron before welding.

Ni rod is soft and machinable. You can shape it with a file but be sure to leave a few thou for the grinder. Once your done filling the gap and all the lil buggers in the bed, toss it up on the surface grinder, but be sure not to remove more then .010". The screw will bind a little at the extreme open position if you do.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa83/Freakindj/BSvise7.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa83/Freakindj/100_0075.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa83/Freakindj/BSvise2.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa83/Freakindj/BSvise9.jpg

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 09:14 AM
Tony -

You can weld it up using Ni Rod. Just be sure to preheat the cast iron before welding.

Ni rod is soft and machinable. You can shape it with a file


?????????????
The nickel rod I have for cast is harder than Evans floor, the only file I have that will touch this looks like an angle grinder .

.

Robo
01-03-2010, 09:24 AM
Tony, I fitted the eye bolt, all the mills have cranes attached and the other heavy gear like dividing heads also have eye bolts.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Bridgycrane1.jpg

When the vise is fitted the eye bolt lives in the hook of the crane so It doesn't get lost.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/beavercrane1.jpg

.

John love the cranes!! Iron gets heavy in a hurry.

Mcgyver
01-03-2010, 09:31 AM
John love the cranes!! Iron gets heavy in a hurry.

must be nice to have the luxury of space, big wide open areas with enough room to swing a crane, I can only dream.....

Lew Hartswick
01-03-2010, 09:40 AM
John love the cranes!! Iron gets heavy in a hurry.
And the older you get the heaver it gets. :-(
...lew... now >77

Robo
01-03-2010, 09:52 AM
must be nice to have the luxury of space, big wide open areas with enough room to swing a crane, I can only dream.....

I would have to agree....

Robo
01-03-2010, 09:57 AM
And the older you get the heaver it gets. :-(
...lew... now >77
Being half your age I understand. I am starting to feel things I never felt.

I think the small cranes mounted off the back of the bridgeport should be standard.

bborr01
01-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Knuckle,
I agree with the thicker jaw option for your vise.
Looks like you are too.

John,

I sure do like the cranes on your mills.
I am adding that to my round tuit list.
Thanks for posting pics.

Brian

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 11:17 AM
must be nice to have the luxury of space, big wide open areas with enough room to swing a crane, I can only dream.....

What's a big wide open area ? is it remotely related to something called a floor ? :D

Both cranes are fastened to the machines in question because there's nowhere else to put them.

JoeFin
01-03-2010, 11:36 AM
?????????????
The nickel rod I have for cast is harder than Evans floor, the only file I have that will touch this looks like an angle grinder .

.

Your joking - Right.........

Try some NLW 5960, you'll love it. Files nicely, machines even better, only problem is it is slightly more silver colored then the original cast iron. Other then that it makes wonderful repairs in a cast iron vise.

Ni Rod is very soft - ever try machining welds from 7018 ?

John Stevenson
01-03-2010, 11:48 AM
Joe, no idea what number it is but I'll look next week.
This is sold as cast iron welding rod and is not cheap, about 80 a kilo.

bpsbtoolman
01-03-2010, 12:59 PM
I have a few CI gears that lost teeth. I would like to silver solder steel blanks to fill the milled out teeth slots. I have a propane torch and can get mapgas but understand its not hot enough. I do have a Lincoln arc welder and a small wire welder. Is it reasonable to arc weld teeth replacement with NLW950 and recut the teeth.
Walt

doctor demo
01-03-2010, 01:21 PM
I have a few CI gears that lost teeth. I do have a Lincoln arc welder and a small wire welder. Is it reasonable to arc weld teeth replacement with NLW950 and recut the teeth.
Walt
I welded up some teeth on a old lathe back gear with Ni-Rod years ago and it is still holding up. The lathe was (is) a 36X144, so the teeth are a good size chunk. I drilled and taped some holes and put some screws in befor welding to cut down on the amt. of filler rod needed.

Steve

JoeFin
01-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Here is the Lincoln knowledge base discussing using Ni Rod

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/castironpreheat.asp

Black_Moons
01-03-2010, 01:30 PM
You can weld and machine down cast iron, however you must be careful
Apparently, Mig mild steel wire + cast iron = carbide at the join layer = very quick to murder your drill bits.. Especialy if you are impaitent and toss the work into cold water to cool it insted of waiting for it to slowly cool down. Ask me how I know :)

Id recommend using one of the rod types recommended in this thread and trying them out on some scrap cast iron. Rods vary greatly depending on composition. Theres rods for everything from hardening metal to blasting holes in it.

Its a very awsome process for repairing parts! ability to roughly add metal and then precision remove it lets you repair just about anything.

Silver soldering in chunks of steel is an intresting option. Should hold under moderate force. I don't see why a propane torch would not get hot enough. Im pertty sure they get hot enough to melt silver...

Hint: existing gearteeth on the other side of the gear make the perfict indexing notchs for aligning your new teeth.
(align cutter into a good tooth with a good tooth indexed. retract cutter and index another good tooth, cut back to position of previously aligned cutter.

Chip Soles
01-04-2010, 03:12 PM
While we are all on the subject of vises, and milling machines. After tramming the heads of Brdgeports in toolrooms repeatedly, over the years, I thought that there had to be a "method to the madness". Since a lot of times
a vise is on the table when the head is raised or lowered for an angle cut, I
would retram the head over the 6" vise opening, X & Y. After some observations, I found that with an indicator swinging a 6" DIA.! CIRCLE any
adjustments made to the front to back angle adjustment, the front reading
will move almost 2 to 1 to the back reading. The thing with this is both indicators are in front of the pivot, and both move up, or down together.
If on your first check you find that the back is "0" and the front is +.010" high, or -.010" on the indicator!, lower the head enough to increase the indicator reading .02" at the front. Go back to rear............

derekm
01-04-2010, 03:46 PM
Here's the whole vise that I meant to add in my first post:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise1.jpg
heres an alternative solution
mill the base casting down until the top t-profile is removed then replace the t -profile with a ground steel plate with sh csk screws to tattach to the base casting.

lazlo
01-04-2010, 06:40 PM
?????????????
The nickel rod I have for cast is harder than Evans floor, the only file I have that will touch this looks like an angle grinder.

There are two kinds of nickel rod: Nickel 99 and Nickel 55. The 55% nickel rods are much softer than the (almost) pure nickel rods.

That gets translated into welding parlance that Ni55 rods are "machinable", although I've machined Ni99 rods, and it's hard, but not annoyingly so.

Ni55 rods are about 1/2 the price of Ni99 rods. Not surprising, considering the price of nickel these days...

oldtiffie
01-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Greets all. Hope everyone had a good / fun / safe new years.

Have been thinking about breathing some new life into this vise:

I got it with my bridgeport, and its been a good workhorse vise .. but theres
a few things that have kept it from really shining. Its a bit buggered, so
don't mind the holes :) -- but have a look at the bottom -- the slides in
particular.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise2.jpg

Before they get to the fixed jaw, the casting tapers in. Those aren't
broken or cut .. they're cast that way.

Also, the top flats of the slides stop about 1/8" short of the fixed jaw.
This has always made using thin parallels a bit of a pain in the bum.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/vise3.jpg

So I think this thing is cast steel. Judging by the way it cuts :)
And I'm considering welding up the slides -- making them the same
width all the way to the fixed jaw.. and filling in the part right under
the fixed jaw. Then machining it back down.

Tig welding, slow build-up. Steel rod.

I doesn't look like there would be any collisions with the parts of the
moving jaw. But I'm wondering if I might not be doing more damage by
welding. Like giving it a place to start a fracture.

Thoughts? Buy a new machinist vise and only use this one for the rough
and tumble? Thats what I'm thinking too.

This vise has no adjustment gibs. Just some steel flats bolted to the
bottom of the moving jaw. But its got absolutely no slop, and, surprisingly,
jaw lift is almost zero.. so if I can make it more useful, that'd be slick.

-Tony

(thats odd, I've only put in 3 pictures.. and I get an error saying I've added
5 and can only do 4 .. but deleting one link makes it work.. so only two
pictures it is).

Tony.

Those "smilies" count as "pics" - so 2 smilies + 2 pics = 4

For "fixed jaw" and thin parallel "problems" - fit a wider/thicker jaw insert.

I'd either just use the vise "as is" and perhaps on the drill-press or the welding bench.

If you "need" to do it up - fine.