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toolmaker76
01-05-2010, 07:01 PM
I have been unemployed for almost five months this year, with a son living here who has been unemployed for most of a year (both in the machine trades).

I am working again, not long enough to get holiday pay (ouch). Had some things hit that I have not been able to make my December house payment (I am sure you are familiar with the kind of list- insurance, payments, increases, etc). Things have been tight and stuff has fallen behind- but not the house payment until now. I was honest about any additional work I got on unemployment, so any money made didn't get me ahead (it was deducted from the benefit- which was sparse to begin with).

I called the mortgage company to explain what was going on (11 days late at this point), the person I talked to was very nasty and accused me of being irresponsible, etc. if you are working your house payment comes first, etc. I tried to explain doing the best I can before I was hung up on. Most other creditors have been willing to work things out. I have a 12 year history on my mortgage and never missed a payment.

I will be able to make both payments after the first one has been due for 36 days. There has been so much other stuff that has fallen behind that I am not particularly worried about my credit- can't give it much more of a ding than it already has- just wanted to be sure that 36 days won't get me foreclosed. Anyone have experience with this?

Bmyers
01-05-2010, 07:30 PM
makes you hope that friendly banker falls on some hard times.

camdigger
01-05-2010, 07:31 PM
Thankfully, I have no experience with this.

I will say that I feel for you and respect that you've been very honest with your lender and the UI system.

I sincerely hope all will work out.

wmgeorge
01-05-2010, 07:41 PM
Unless you are buying on contract most mortgages have 1 year before they can foreclose and put you on the street. I would try to find some sort of legit credit consulting agency in your area. No 800 numbers off the internet, TV or Radio ads, no payment to anyone up front. Go to where you bank and ask them.

What will happen if you get to far behind, they have the right to refuse partial or late payments unless the entire amount and late fees are all paid at one time. .. maybe someone else can jump in here with better advice.

The lady on the phone was almost right, let your credit cards and other non-secured stuff go to collection, pay the electric, gas and house payment.

bob ward
01-05-2010, 07:45 PM
I will be able to make both payments after the first one has been due for 36 days. There has been so much other stuff that has fallen behind that I am not particularly worried about my credit- can't give it much more of a ding than it already has- just wanted to be sure that 36 days won't get me foreclosed. Anyone have experience with this?

Strictly speaking in the terms of the mortgage contract most probably yes, but in practice it doesn't usually work that way.

Especially given the reported state of the US housing market (I'm assuming you are in the US), the mortgagor will not be in a hurry to add another empty house to their stockpile.

The most important thing is to stay on the front foot with the finance provider, tell them IN WRITING what your situation is, what you realistically expect to be able to do in the way of repayments.

Carld
01-05-2010, 07:47 PM
The government has some kind of help as a go between. That's the only thing they have done good. Anyway check with your federal rep or senator for where to go. Or, Check with your bank and see if they know who to see.

Please don't try one of the companies that promise to cut your payments and all kinds of other crap for a fee. They are lying and will take your money and do nothing.

x39
01-05-2010, 07:49 PM
I sincerely doubt 36 days past the due date will result in anything more than some unpleasant phone calls and a ding on your credit score.

lenord
01-05-2010, 08:05 PM
Short answer, if it is a typical mortgage like mine here in Texas, no way in hell. I know someone who has not made a house payment in 10 months, still lives in the house. Standard mortgage, in Texas.

Yes, they can call, yes they can send letters, but that is about it.

Your best bet, for your sanity, just ignore the calls from the mortgage company if you are only "late". You are paying a late fee for being late, and having a credit score ding too, be late and let it go at that.
The people that are calling from a mortgage company can be really "$#!%#" on the phone. Save yourself an upset stomach.

FWIW
Lenord

toolmaker76
01-05-2010, 08:12 PM
Thanks- I am in the U.S.A. I don't expect to need credit counseling (yet) just to keep working- should have all caught up within two months. Even got some work on the side in my own shop that is promising- which will help get me ahead eventually.

Still fuming about the call- I know that is a tactic of collectors to get the person mad enough to say h*ll with it and just write a check, but I didn't think about that during the call- I held my temper but I was angry.

Yep, I would like to see that person and a few people who work for the unemployment system to get a taste of some of this.

boslab
01-05-2010, 08:15 PM
makes me sad to read your post, i hope that it will work out ok, i remember quite well being absolutly flat broke, its painful, now i'm not broke but after weathering years of crap i finally make a decent enough wage and guess what, i get me a bloody heart attack [x5], whoopy bloody doo, i know things may seem bad but beleive me that what i tell is true, they can and will get worse, its some kind of divine assault course i reckon.
either your in the **** in which case i'm sorry, climbing out of the **** in which case i'm glad but thats the dangerous bit because you are just between trials, and the next seems to be harder, i think theres only one way through and thats to not loose faith because it seems you wont ever be dealt a hand you cant play [so far]
god bless
mark

Your Old Dog
01-05-2010, 08:16 PM
25 years ago my finances were a mess. I went to Consumer Credit Counseling service. You sign up to give a lump some of money every month and they disperse amoungst your creditors AFTER they get the creditors to drop the interest crap and take reduced monies until the debts are paid off. You will have to sign a statement that you agree not to have any further credit until these obligations have been met. It beats the hell out of bankruptsy and even it's getting harder to get these days.

Good luck and keep a stiff upper lip and seek out a credit counselor.

andy_b
01-05-2010, 08:40 PM
I missed a mortgage payment one time. A week or two after it was due I got a call and said I'd send it out with the next payment. The guy on the phone said it may affect my credit rating if I didn't send it in as soon as possible. I asked him how it would affect my credit rating if I sent him a check for the payment and it bounced. He agreed I should just send the payment in when I had the money. :)

I am sad to say I know of a few people in the foreclosure boat, and at 36 days you have NOTHING to worry about. Now if you were talking 90 days, then you should start getting a bit concerned.

andy b.

x39
01-05-2010, 10:09 PM
i think theres only one way through and thats to not loose faith because it seems you wont ever be dealt a hand you cant play
Sound advice and a good way of looking at things.

Mcgyver
01-05-2010, 10:28 PM
you need legal advice. each jurisdiction is going to have different time periods, notice periods etc. obviously you don't want to hire a lawyer, but maybe its available via some public access or legal advise hot line....start with attorney generals office in whatever jurisdiction

around here anyway, mortgagors in default can extend things a long time by getting in front of a judge. I've seen the downside of it where scoundrels with commercial properties, get 90 day after 90 extension (my dad sold a property to a church of all things and they strung him out for 3 years in defualt on a VTB :eek: ) judges seem willing to hold forth hope for any lame story.

anyway, that's not the point, you obviously have a good attitude and are working hard to right things....so just be aware that outside of the legislated notice periods there may be other legal avenues...but this depend on jurisdiction (i;d guess by state, but I'm not in the US)

sorry you are going through it, congrats though on what sounds like a path to recovery

tyrone shewlaces
01-05-2010, 11:55 PM
36 days = forclosure. No.
But you might look into anything else you might have set up when you originally got the loan to see if there are other consequences.
My house payment was set up when I got the loan so it would automatically deduct from an account. It's always worked great and resulted in a perfect payment history for about 15 years now. BUT - if the funds aren't there when they try to draw them out, I will likely face an interest percentage increase and other fees, which knowing how banks are, probably total up to about 6 months of payments or something. Anyways, I'm just diligent about keeping a surplus in the account so I don't face that music. I imagine a sleazy little man laying in wait for folks to stumble on these types of arrangements so they can pounce on them and pull the rug out. Anyways, so far it's worked out OK for me, but the horizon is beginning to look bleak.
I figure if the greedy 2 percent want to take everything the other 98% own, then they deserve the crumbling ruin they create for themselves. Just rewards. They can stay here and own all the rubble they want. I learned how to camp comfortably in the woods long ago so I'll be fine.
Good luck and I hope things for you have made a turn for the better.

Walter
01-06-2010, 04:36 AM
Toolmaker,

Having been in your position I empathize with you. I also hate the crap the creditors pull, especially that crappy attitude. Don't sweat it, just make the payments asap and get back on track. in times like this prioritize, house, electric, food, and the things you need so that you CAN work, phone, car. All else gets the deep six bin until times are better.

I've been back to work for over a year now and still am getting caught up. My friendly local gas company shut me off over $76.00 they couldn't wait a week for. My kid needed shoes as his old ones were gathering too many holes and I put that on top of the list, and that left me too short to pay then that week. That was something like 2 years ago, everyone else worked with me. The gas company went to the bottom of my pay list and are still there. They will get paid after every one else, not one stinking second before. It's been an adjustment being without the gas but electricity does the same things :D

Black_Moons
01-06-2010, 05:01 AM
haha. I only pay my bills off to the nearest $10 or so, let the change ride from month to month.
there automated computer systems has 'past overdue!' on the bills every month, demanding I pay up $3.53 or some such stupid amount.
Nobodys ever phoned or disconnected me mind you.. or sent any kinda non automated letter.. I assume some human sees the amount due (brought to there attention by the ever trusty computer.. every month since I havent paid up in years, haha) and just goes onto the next person.

Or maybe they call the number thats not been in service for 4 years... Or try and look up the dead person the bills are still registered to... I once tryed to change the information but they insisted on talking to the dead person and the first one I called wanted $20 to 'update the information'. I laughed and hung up. Let them try and collect from dead people if I ever get behind. Shaw (cable company) did when I canceled my service with $200 of outstanding bills (as the last housemate who watched cable TV moved out and I wasent gonna pay). Even sent a letter saying if the dead person values thier credit rating to pay RIGHT AWAY! And 4 months later sent another letter to 'homeowner' saying that for only $14.95 for the first 3 months I could get...... And again the next month.. and again.. and again.. and again...

Dawai
01-06-2010, 08:04 AM
1). Change the house numbers on the front of the home. Do not notify anyone of this change. It sure helps a few months while delivering papers.

2) Purchase bolt cutters to remove lock and chain when served, live in house till last minute. Keep bare minimum of possessions in home.

3) buy a large vicious dog.

4) start dumping garbage in yard to help value of community. Have a small fire to smoke up around windows. (exterior appearance)

5) paint graffiti on house to lower value.

6) offer bank $3000 cash for home. trust me, they will sell or close to this amount.

7) undo all of the above. Smile just desserts goes to those who deserve it.


I'm a nice guy.. most the time. A local Chrysler dealership got broke into, they took several vipers, a jeep joyriding, totalled one viper. Okay.. that is terrible right? same dealership when the PT Cruisers first came out? I ordered one with moon roof, leather, and a full option set.. when it came in, I went to pick it up at "that" dealer.. THEY had a cash deposit on the car I had ordered since they were hard to get. (typical cash markup was six thousand dollars) They Laughed at my Internet arrangement. I had gave a credit card deposit, which I was refunded the full amount.

Karma. Sometimes it just happens to those that deserve it.

cuemaker
01-06-2010, 08:52 AM
Ok, I didn't read all the replies so I am not totally sure what advice/info/misadvise that has been given.

My qualifications: 17yrs in retail and wholesale mortgage. Except for selling wholesale packages to wall street, you name the function or job, I have done it or been apart of it.

Also, I personally have been through 2 foreclosures and a bankruptancy involving property.

General fact regarding most loans (there are always exceptions, weird things out there)

1. You pay a late penalty after the due date/grace period.
2. After 30 days past the due date (not grace period) you are technically 30 days late and it will show on your credit report.
3. Each successive 30 days will show accordingly. If you don't pay at all, it will show as 60 days, then 90 days, etc. If you miss 1 month and then get back on track paying, but still missing 1 month, your credit report will show just 30's. That's called a "rolling 30"....
4. The typical FC process starts 90 days after the last payment. Even then, a lender may not start the process until 120 or even later.
5. Once they lender accepts any money on the account, the time clock starts again on when they can start the FC process. Like I said, typically 90 days. That's why lenders get all tough about partial payments. It limits their options.
6. While be late is not good, lenders wont turn their heads to much other than when you call in or they put in their standard call to you to get the money. With in 90 days they will take your money. Late payments affect them in many many ways and they would rather not show you 90days or later.

Abner
01-06-2010, 09:32 AM
I think you are fairly safe. Banks don't need another house like was posted above. As we say ' slow pay is better than no pay' and bankers will agree but never tell you that. They are in BIG trouble, and they know it.
I'm incensed that your were told that you are irresponsible. Banksters are #1 for predatory and irresponsible lending - leading to our economic problems and of course yours. I have done a 90 deg. turn on the morality of feeling responsible to pay back to banks. They caused these problem for their own profit. When things go south we taxpayer are expected to bail them out which they in turn give themselves billions YES BILLIONS in bonus's. Their attitude that they need to keep good talent is BS. Anyone who messes up the economy to the extent they have should be kicked to the curb. I'm sure if they are that damn good they can find another job in finance(hahaha how does that feel bankers?).

Your mortgage might have been sliced and diced and pieces sold to someone in Kuwait for all you know. I have heard of someone who refused to pay because the bank could not prove who owned the mortgage.

You need some professional advice if your situation gets worse.
If you want to wrap your mind around our collective fiscal problems I suggest the following web blogs. They deal with the very situation you are in almost daily. Hang in there.
Mish
The Automatic Earth
Calculated Risk
Zero Hedge

Hot Bob
01-06-2010, 11:36 AM
I have been lurking on this forum for over a year without registering. I enjoy seeing what projects everybody has going but seldom feel I have anything to contribute. Well, after reading this thread I decided to register and post up.

I personally have nothing to do with the mortgage business. My wife however does. Her company has been buying serious numbers of mortgages from distressed banks for the last two years. Most of the mortgages are in arrears and the banks see them as a liability. When the bank is trying to raise capitol to stay afloat or they're liquidating assets because they're going under, these loans go up for sale. Companies like my wifes buy these mortgages by the hundreds, thousands even, for pennies on the dollar.

Once they buy the mortgages, they begin servicing them. In a lot of cases they can offer to reduce the principal and the interest rate on the note because they bought it so cheap. Obviously if you are not behind on your payments, you're not going to get that kind of offer. Those people who have gone ten months without making a payment but stay in the home have the best chance of getting something like this.

I know it sounds FUBAR but that's the way it goes. If you're behind, you are better off if your mortgage company sells your note. The original lender is never going to do anything but harrass you.

Also, my wife said several states are now two years behind in foreclosures. That means that you could stop making payments and live for an additional two years or more in the home. If you have any equity in the home, the worst thing you can do is walk away from it.

To the original poster, you have a long time before you need to worry about anything.

Bob

jim davies
01-06-2010, 05:40 PM
Lots of good advice here. One thing not mentioned, but should be a basic thought: If you still have equity value in the home based on it's actual value in today's market, you have a potential problem. If'n you're upside down equity-wise like a lot of folks are then the bank has a problem. With some of the more egregious examples of peak of the market buying I have read about, the only way a person is ever going to get right side up on the equity situation is if you get a major knock down in the mortgage principal amount. Or walk away...after going through the foreclosure process whch usually drags on and on.

toolmaker76
01-06-2010, 05:54 PM
Thanks to all who responded. It helped a lot to vent, and the comments have made me feel a lot better.

I bought the land on contract and did all the sweat equity stuff to gain some value- let that equity work as a down payment to put the house on it. Since then I have built the shop (30' x 48') with my own hands and pay as you go. I don't feel there will be a problem with the equity, could probably get what I owe even in this market. Just have had a bad few months income wise, and it will take a couple of months to make a comeback on everything, but that should happen.

The more I think of that conversation, the more I feel like the mortgage woman was working me.

What I would like to do is be able (I am sure I will hear from her again before the month is out) to come up with a response that is 1) not profane in any manner 2) totally non threatening whatsoever and 3) most importantly- guaranteed to make her lose sleep at night thinking about her job.

Number 3 probably requires someone to have a conscience.

pcarpenter
01-06-2010, 06:09 PM
I think I would be most tempted to just say something like this to her:

"I am not the sort of guy you might typically have to deal with on one of these sorts of issues. I am in a good situation to be able to pay not only the late payment and the next payment in pretty short order. In short, I want to do the right thing. Don't you think you ought to reserve the hostility for the kind of folks who just don't care?"

The other half of this may well be that you are dealing with someone who is a phone agent and who has their calling monitored and she may feel obligated to be firm because she is being watched. Some people don't know the difference between being firm and being a jerk...and admittedly the line is thin.

My wife works for the local credit union that I have done all my banking with for about 25 years. As a credit union, they answer primarily to their members. While they do sell the mortgages, they do all of the mortgage processing for the life of the mortgage. They do (or can) easily see that I am otherwise responsible, in the event that something would happen, rather than treating me as an unknown slacker. I think this "mortgage as commodity" thing means that there are a lot of people who will never see their customers face to face and that makes it easier for the mortage holder (company) to be a horses arse.

Congratulations on being an upstanding citizen and doing the right thing and trying to work your way out of this! It seems that there are plenty of folks in this tough time who want out of all their debt at the expense of the rest of us.

Paul

cuemaker
01-06-2010, 06:28 PM
Whoa, land contract....lots of potential issues...

Who is the land contract with? Private or corporate?

From past personal experience, land contracts can have lots of interesting lingo in them, generally meaning less protection for you...

Please read your contract about late payments and what not...Since you have improved the land it would suck to lose that hard work...

Read your contract.

toolmaker76
01-06-2010, 08:34 PM
I should have been more clear- when I put the house on I refinanced and bought out the land contract so that now there is just the mortgage. The land contract got me the property- the improvements I made to it (lots and lots of clearing and gravel hauling and that sort of thing) improved the value of it enough so that there was enough equity to get a mortgage on the property plus a house. This is actually going on 13 years ago now.

wmgeorge
01-06-2010, 08:56 PM
Thanks to all who responded. It helped a lot to vent, and the comments have made me feel a lot better.

I bought the land on contract and did all the sweat equity stuff to gain some value- let that equity work as a down payment to put the house on it. Since then I have built the shop (30' x 48') with my own hands and pay as you go. I don't feel there will be a problem with the equity, could probably get what I owe even in this market. Just have had a bad few months income wise, and it will take a couple of months to make a comeback on everything, but that should happen.

The more I think of that conversation, the more I feel like the mortgage woman was working me.

What I would like to do is be able (I am sure I will hear from her again before the month is out) to come up with a response that is 1) not profane in any manner 2) totally non threatening whatsoever and 3) most importantly- guaranteed to make her lose sleep at night thinking about her job.

Number 3 probably requires someone to have a conscience.

Ask her for her name, and if you can record what is said.

cuemaker
01-06-2010, 10:09 PM
I should have been more clear- when I put the house on I refinanced and bought out the land contract so that now there is just the mortgage. The land contract got me the property- the improvements I made to it (lots and lots of clearing and gravel hauling and that sort of thing) improved the value of it enough so that there was enough equity to get a mortgage on the property plus a house. This is actually going on 13 years ago now.

Good...I was worried. Lots of tales of bad land contracts...

Otherwise.. your all good.. pay when you can, do your best to avoid a 60 day in general... faster you get caught up, the cheaper it is in terms of fee's etc.

Good luck.

sansbury
01-07-2010, 08:28 PM
If you're behind, you are better off if your mortgage company sells your note. The original lender is never going to do anything but harrass you.

The bank will do anything it can to get paid up until about 90 days. Before that, the $300,000 note on the house now worth $180k still shows up on their books as a $300k asset. After 90 days, it becomes "nonperforming," meaning the bank has to start accounting for the lost value, but they can still hold out hope of getting you back on.

Once the bank sells that note to a hedge fund (which is roughly who Hot Bob's wife is probably working for) for, say, $200k, they have to write off that $100k as a loss. They won't do this until they absolutely need the cash. This will happen mostly to small banks that have little political clout. We bailed the banks out a year ago because they were "too big to fail." Well, the banks we have today are even bigger and fewer in number. Draw your own conclusions.


If you have any equity in the home, the worst thing you can do is walk away from it.

Equity means the home's market value exceeds the debt against its title. So if you have equity, it means you can sell the home. Foreclosures have become much more common in the past few years because prior to the early 2000s, very few lenders would write a loan for >80% of the value. As 20% swings in value were pretty rare, this kept them pretty safe. Negative equity is the #1 risk factor for someone to go into foreclosure.

gunbuilder
01-07-2010, 10:50 PM
One other big thing, if the loan reads after so many past due payments the entire loan becomes due and payable, don't let it get to that point. You will owe the whole loan.

As far as anyone in the mortgage business having a conscience, forget it! If they have been doing collections or foreclosures for any length of time they will put you out on the street in a heartbeat and sleep like a baby.

I could and I haven't had much collection experience.

Thanks,
Paul

J Tiers
01-07-2010, 11:48 PM
All I know about it is that my ex-brother-in-law recently got heaved out of teh house he "bought". As far as I can determine, the worthless leech never made a payment in 18 months of "owning" the house.

The bank had a sheriff's sale, and the house was not bought..... so they still own it, but since the electric is off, the sump pump is too, and the basement filled up with water, KO-ing the furnace and water heater, etc...... it isn't likely gonna sell any time soon.

I very much suspect that most banks will do a lot to keep from owning another house. Since you have a good payment record, and are going to be just one payment behind, that is going to look like gold compared to the sub-prime sleaze like the ex bro-in-law. The boss of the phone skank will wise them up pretty quick, I'm thinking.

oldtiffie
01-08-2010, 01:09 AM
In a contractual situation, its no use squawking about the deal or the financiers.

You are assumed to to have made an "informed" and "arms length" agreement for a "consideration" (cash, co-lateral, mortgage etc) which "seal the deal".

It is a business deal after all.

Financiers are neither providers of "Benefit" nor are they part of any charitable or social welfare arrangements. They are in business to make a profit - that's all.

It seems that the OP is well on his way to sorting himself out - and I wish him well.

The big risk is the "sting in the tail", even after "matter" is "sorted" as the credit reference file will have all your "problems" with you not meeting your financial obligations or refusals of acceptance of you as it will make it increasingly difficult to get let alone service a future financial loan etc.

This may well involve higher levels of your percentage of the total or higher fees and charges and stiffer conditions, interest rates, default conditions etc. etc. - even assuming you can get finance.

Worse, if you can't get any necessary finance from the Level/Tier 1 institutions you may be driven to the Levels 2 and 3 or the "Loan Sharks".

"Credit rating" may well be the most important of all.

Evan
01-08-2010, 01:19 AM
makes you hope that friendly banker falls on some hard times.


A slight mispelling there.

Makes you hope that friendly banker falls on some hard tines.


Got a hay rake?

J Tiers
01-08-2010, 09:16 AM
A slight mispelling there.

Makes you hope that friendly banker falls on some hard tines.


Got a hay rake?

Torches and billhooks at midnight?