PDA

View Full Version : Best way to pop off cir-clipped joints



beanbag
01-06-2010, 03:05 AM
You can tell my life story based on my OT posts.
First it was how to ghetto rig a busted CV boot.
Then when I tried to take off the axle to do a real repair, I gassed myself (or managed to mess myself up in some other way)
Now I am asking about the actual axle.

Here's a picture of the outer CV joint separated from the axle.
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q286/beanbag137/ht/joint-off.png

It's attached via splines and is held in place by a snap ring or circlip or whatever you call it. There is a groove on both the male and female splines. The OD of the the circlip in its normal state is larger than the OD of the male splines, thus holding the two sets of grooves together. The way this joint is usually taken off is by using a drift against the inner race of the joint and whacking it with a really big hammer (or at least that's how I got it off). Somehow this force is strong enough to temporarily compress the circlip fully into the groove allowing the joint to slide off. It doesn't work if you don't hit it hard enough.

I was thinking of another way to pop off this joint, which is to machine two half cylinders that clamp together around the shaft, and then have screws parallel to the axis push off this joint. Doing it this way saves me from having to take the axle out of the transmission, thus not spewing fluid everywhere. (It would also save me from having my friend drive my sorry ass to another location that has a big vise and hammer to do the actual joint popping.) However, this type of contraption would create a steady force instead of the sharp impacts of a hammer. Would it still work at popping off this joint?

Bguns
01-06-2010, 03:25 AM
Drain the transmission oil..

Replace inner seal ( if it has one) also. It will go next anyway, and you would have to it pull all apart again...

Fix it right, and your life of problems will get better :)

When I have a Cat D9 transmission to fix, Saran wrap and not changing transmission oil, just do not compute :)

Trans weigh 2000 pounds, takes a day to pull/tear down, and only needed $6500.00 in parts :)

Friends are FOR hauling sorry asses around ... g

ptjw7uk
01-06-2010, 05:37 AM
On the old mini and leyland front wheel drive units there was a tool to remove the shaft. The drive shaft had a semicircular groove some 6" from its end, into which the fixing part fitted. This part was a U shaped plate with the attachement fixed the rest of the tool was in the shape of a U shaped tube with a flange on the end. This was fitted around the shaft pushing against the CV joint in the axle 2 bolts on the fixture plate where then tightened against the tube and pushing the CV off the end of the shaft.
I have one in the garage somewhere worked quite well but the hammer was just as good.
On the picture of the shaft I cannot see any way you could fix a tool to the shaft.

Peter

Just found link to picture of tool
http://drcwww.uvt.nl/~bogaard/manual/fronsusp/pottool.gif

NiftyNev
01-06-2010, 05:47 AM
All you need is a length of pipe with an ID to fit the drive shaft. Place shaft inside pipe, hold upright and slam it down on a block of hardwood and then catch the CV.

Nev

vpt
01-06-2010, 09:56 AM
Like mentioned, just drain and fill the tranny.


Also like mentioned yes the tool you describe would work. I have one that I've used once when I was like you and thought it would be a good idea. I've rebuilt hundreds of axles and found it to be faster to just pull the axle and work with it at a nice level on the bench.

Highpower
01-06-2010, 12:03 PM
I've rebuilt hundreds of axles and found it to be faster to just pull the axle and work with it at a nice level on the bench. Agreed.

The best way to separate the joint from the axle is by using the factory tool. :p

Basically a large nut. It is simply a threaded adapter for a standard slide hammer. One end screws onto the slide hammer shaft, the other end screws onto the CV joint shaft. Hold the axle shaft in a vice and pop the slide hammer - done. Reverse to re-install.

The are two sizes for Honda. 22mm / 24mm (ie. Civic/Accord)
Simple enough for a machinist to make.... ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Temp/th_AST29409.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Temp/?action=view&current=AST29409.jpg)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Temp/th_Image2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Temp/?action=view&current=Image2.jpg)

beanbag
01-09-2010, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the suggestions.
I didn't know there was a proper factory way to do it. My factory service manual only said "remove joint".

The main question I was trying to get at, though, is whether this type of spline + circlip joint is better detached with a constant pushing force (like that clamp and screw contraption) or by whacking with a hammer.

May as well try making that clamp and push device anyway. I found out that I may now get to do this three times as my brother's girlfriend's car also needs the CV boots replaced. :rolleyes:

fasto
01-09-2010, 11:13 PM
The Volkswagen service manual says to smack the outer part of the CV joint with a hammer to remove it. I use a piece of masonite between the hammer & the CV joint, not good to hit hardened steel with a hammer, y'know....

Highpower
01-10-2010, 03:22 AM
I don't know about VW's but you will find that the Honda joint bodies are not all that hard, and will deform when struck by a hammer. That is why the factory designed the slide hammer adapter to "pop" them loose from the axle by holding on to the shaft threads instead. Constant pressure on the cir-clips (especially the inner joints) will get you nowhere fast on a Honda in most cases.

Like anything, there is usually more than one way to skin a cat that will work. I'm just relaying what experience and factory training have taught me. You can tackle it any way you please. :)

When you get good enough to knock out a pair of outer CV boots in 30 minutes, I know a Honda dealer that will hire you.
(p.s.) The flate rate pays 3.0 hours. Shhhhhhhh........ :D

beanbag
01-10-2010, 10:12 PM
I don't know about VW's but you will find that the Honda joint bodies are not all that hard, and will deform when struck by a hammer. That is why the factory designed the slide hammer adapter to "pop" them loose from the axle by holding on to the shaft threads instead. Constant pressure on the cir-clips (especially the inner joints) will get you nowhere fast on a Honda in most cases.

Like anything, there is usually more than one way to skin a cat that will work. I'm just relaying what experience and factory training have taught me. You can tackle it any way you please. :)



Thanks for sharing your experiences. Only concern I have about using the slide hammer is that it pulls on the outer case of the joint. Doesn't that shock load the bearings?

Other than that, I'll see if I can ghetto rig up an adapter. I don't think the lathe I use has the gear to cut metric threads :(

As I mentioned, I used a chunk of aluminum as a drift when whacking the inner race. It appears I didn't damage it.

One question though, since you seem to be a Honda Tech. My outer CV boots on my Integra are giving out at around 120,000 miles, but the inner boots seem fine (no cracks). Do you think it would be ok to leave them alone?

Highpower
01-10-2010, 11:47 PM
My outer CV boots on my Integra are giving out at around 120,000 miles, but the inner boots seem fine (no cracks). Do you think it would be ok to leave them alone?
If no cracks, yes. The inner boots rarely wear out since they don't flex near as much as the outer boots do.

beanbag
04-27-2010, 07:17 PM
Update:

I found out that for these types of joints, it's best to preload the joint by tugging on it, then a few light taps with the hammer, then a big whack.

What happens is that you need the preload and light taps to help seat the circlip into the groove, and then the big whack can easily pop the joint off. If you don't preload the joint, then then circlip becomes unseated from the groove right after the hit.

lane
04-27-2010, 07:50 PM
First off you are not suppose to be working on that. You are suppose to take it to the dealer . He has all the right tool and know how to do the job right and charge you 3 times for it in case his mechanic messed up and he has to do it again .