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wagnerite
01-06-2010, 03:18 PM
Hi, I'm new. Bought a mill/drill a while ago and have been playing around with it making swarfs.

I'm making something that requires a tapered rod. Material is 316SS 1" rod, 12" long.

I want to taper it one end remain 1 inch, the other to 3/4 inch, here's my "napkin blueprint":

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg93/waggie51/machining/taperrod.jpg

i know it doesnt look like a rod, but its got all the dimension i want to communicate.

I've been chewing over this for several days now. I know this could be done rather easily on a lathe, but I dont have a lathe.

here comes my mickey mouse ideas:

1. get a 1" R8 collet and put the rod in the drill head. and some how, fabricate a tool holder to hold a cutter, and use my mill like a lathe. (making this "tool holder" will probably be difficult and frustrating)

2. get a rotary table and mount it vertically and mount the rod in it so the rod is horizontal. I can shim the rotary table so the the bar tilts up the correct angle and mill while turning it.

i realize these are all very jerry-rigging. if its impossible, i'll just use a straight rod.. But i've been chewing over this over two weeks now, and still no solution. Instead of re-inventing the wheel, i figure i'll just ask the experts.

Black_Moons
01-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Hmm, Might we ask what your making that needs a tapered rod? maybe its easyer to change that then make the rod.

daveo
01-06-2010, 03:32 PM
That being stainless I would find someone with a lathe. Thats just a basic operation in a lathe. Time saver and frustration saver!!! Just my 2 cents

rustamd
01-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Can make easy toolholder by mounting lathe bit in vise. But having mill cut taper like that... is harder part.

Or just have someone make one on lathe.

strokersix
01-06-2010, 03:38 PM
How about a 14 inch piece so you have an extra inch on each end shimmed up to the taper angle and clamped to the mill table. Mill down the taper, unclamp, rotate part, reclamp and take another cut. Watch for deformation when clamping. Repeat until you get all the way around as fine of increments as you can stand. Cut off the small end. Then insert the big end into a 1" collet in the spindle, run the spindle and use a file and abrasive cloth to finish. Then cut the big end off.

A spin fixture and tailstock would be easier but I'm guessing you don't have those.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Hmm, Might we ask what your making that needs a tapered rod? maybe its easyer to change that then make the rod.

http://www.thebuzzclub.co.nz/shop/images/njoy_purewand.gif

what can i say, my wife has been corrupted by her girlfriends. One of her friends have one, and now all the other friends want one. They're $90 to $120 on the internet, made of 316SS. Took me FOREVER to source the 1" ($1.79 each) and 1.5" ($15 each) 316SS balls, but i finally got them.

bending this rod will be very difficult, so i might ditch the whole tapering rod and just use 3/4" 316 rod.

SGW
01-06-2010, 03:49 PM
Can you instead use a standard taper pin? A #12 taper pin is just over 1" diameter at the large end.

How good a finish do you need? Your suggestion #2 (tilted rotary table) would probably work, if you support the outboard end with a tailstock center, but a milled finish is not likely to be very good. And 316 stainless is no joy to work with. Can you use #303?

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 03:55 PM
there are stander taper pins? i did not know of such things :) i will look now.

need to be 316 due to health concerns. I will definitely polish it to a mirror shine.

this will be about $30 in material and a whole lot of time, just to make a $90 widget.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Can you instead use a standard taper pin? A #12 taper pin is just over 1" diameter at the large end.

OMG, they come in 316 SS. this is why i ask the experts ;)

Carld
01-06-2010, 04:00 PM
:rolleyes: This should get interesting. :cool:

MinnesotaHSM
01-06-2010, 04:09 PM
I don't want to sound stupid, but what is that thing used for?

The next thing, even if you are able to make it, will your wife use it? I made a sweet little doorbell button on my lathe and mill for our house and my wife didn't like it (didn't go with style of house). It might be cheaper to spend the $90.00.

- T

RKW
01-06-2010, 04:10 PM
It was probably made as one piece in a lathe and then heated and bent afterwards. It will most likely be more difficult on the mill.

I'm with Carl ... this should be interesting, as it appears to be a first for this sort of "toy" :D

Metal sure will be cold ...

RKW
01-06-2010, 04:13 PM
Sooner or later someone was going to ask.

All the information you need to find out is in post #6 ...


I don't want to sound stupid, but what is that thing used for?

The next thing, even if you are able to make it, will your wife use it? I made a sweet little doorbell button on my lathe and mill for our house and my wife didn't like it (didn't go with style of house). It might be cheaper to spend the $90.00.

- T

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 04:19 PM
I don't want to sound stupid, but what is that thing used for?

The next thing, even if you are able to make it, will your wife use it? I made a sweet little doorbell button on my lathe and mill for our house and my wife didn't like it (didn't go with style of house). It might be cheaper to spend the $90.00.

- T

my, my! I sure hate to make a first impression like this. It is a "toy" that's all i want to say since i really like this forum and don't want to be banned.

as for whether the wife will use it... lets just say this is not a project that i came up with. this project was handed to me by her and a group of her friends.

I agree it would be cheaper to just spend the 90 bucks, but i wouldn't be any wiser. i spent $3000 on welding equipment and material to make a $150 wrought iron gate for my yard... but now i know how to weld. IMHO, $2850 (and a lot of frustration) later, i can now o/a, mig and tig weld SS, steel, alu. knowledge and experience is priceless.

Peter N
01-06-2010, 04:19 PM
Metal sure will be cold ...

Just get it cherry red with the oxy torch first :D

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 04:21 PM
Just get it cherry red with the oxy torch first :D

microwave some water, and dunk the gismo in it... :o

Tony Pratt
01-06-2010, 04:27 PM
I don't like to ask, but I will! What are they.

Tony

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 04:36 PM
i dont want to be too specific, i dont want to be banned.

its a toy and needs to be warmed up in warm water, thats all i'll say.

Peter N
01-06-2010, 04:42 PM
its a toy and needs to be warmed up in warm water, thats all i'll say.

Is it like one of those colour-changing Hot Wheels Cars then? :D

Uncle O
01-06-2010, 04:43 PM
For those that can't take a hint.....
It is a "ladies toy"..........

ulav8r
01-06-2010, 04:47 PM
If my wife asked for one of those, I'd say "She's no lady, she's my wife", a rip-off line from I don't remember who; but I will not say it about someone else's wife.

Carld
01-06-2010, 05:10 PM
wagnerite, I'm going against my better judgement with this post. Your not going to get a smooth finish on that taper by using a mill. No matter how you try it, with in on a rotary table between the quill and table or on the table between centers with an index head. You won't be able to move the part and the improvised cutter smooth enough to get a smooth cut. That doesn't even address the issues of fabricating all this tooling.

Either buy a taper pin as suggested and polish it to the desired finish, which you would have to do anyway, or have someone make it on a lathe.

Cutting a 12" long taper is a lathe job, not a mill job.

Uncle O
01-06-2010, 05:17 PM
Agreed , to do that job on a mill will be most difficult.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 05:47 PM
yes, doing this on a mill is seemingly very stupid, i realize it now. I worked on this in my head for a long time, i'm a stubborn sob. Just thought i check with the experts... and experts say no-can't-do!

I am looking into the tapered pin. If its way more expensive then turning my own from stock (approx $95 for 12' stick), i might get my own lathe.

a side note: for those of you who think buying $$$ of tooling to do a $100 job is not-wise... chalk this up to one of the ways to increase your tool budget approved by SWMBO

second side note, is there anyone in so cal (claremont/upland area) with a lathe that's willing to taper this for me? I'll either pay with cash, beer or trade welding services.

Pete F
01-06-2010, 06:23 PM
If its way more expensive then turning my own from stock (approx $95 for 12' stick), i might get my own lathe.

a side note: for those of you who think buying $$$ of tooling to do a $100 job is not-wise...

I was wondering when you were going to get there. If you can afford to, get the lathe. It's not like you're only going to use it once. You know you want to... :D

-Pete

Ries
01-06-2010, 06:47 PM
Without making any comment on the final use...

this is a forging project.
I forge stainless all the time, and though I havent made anything quite this "stimulating", the basic form is easy.
You use a swage die to isolate an inch or so at each end, then you taper the center section, then go back and forge those cylindrical ends into spheres. I would then do a preliminary polish, heat it up and bend it, and do a final polish.

Of course, to forge 316 efficiently, you need a power hammer.
Usually on stainless, after I get it where I want it, finish wise, I send it out to be electropolished.

A good blacksmith could knock out this basic shape in under an hour, and it would be a constant volume process- no material would be removed, to speak of, unlike machining- much more efficient in terms of material.
Polishing to the degree needed, however, is more labor intensive.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 07:21 PM
I did research forging and found out that forging stainless steel at a home shop level is practically impossible. Years ago, grandpa and dad built and ran several glass factories, that would have helped. A day late and a dollar short :(

Black_Moons
01-06-2010, 07:26 PM
mm, I just realised you can cut a taper in a mill, you just need to tilt the head and have the work in the head (And a lathe bit clamped to the table) (assumeing it tilts at the head and not the collumn like the really small mills)

Still, a subpar solution at best.

oldtiffie
01-06-2010, 07:37 PM
In the (VERY!!) unlikely event that my wife ever asked/told/suggested that I make her something like that, my response (which she'd expect) would be that "I'm not ya bloody toy-boy" to which her response (which I'd expect) would be "You better believe it - ever!!".

Nothing like peace, love and harmony in a relationship.

At my (PhD) level of tact and diplomacy, this sort of stuff is easy.

It seems that I have an unusual talent for it.

psomero
01-06-2010, 07:38 PM
you need a lathe to get it done properly. your wife and her friends want it done properly, right?

once you get the shape whittled out, you're going to need a crapload of emery cloth and a lathe that spins pretty fast. that'd be the easiest way to get the thing to a mirror shine that you need for sanitary reasons.

doctor demo
01-06-2010, 07:41 PM
I've started this response and deleted it several times looking for the right wording, but now I'm not going there:D .
I do have a question about how You were going to attach the balls on either end without compromising the sterility issue or the unfortunate possibility of an end falling off while in the a...err...use cycle:eek: ?

Steve

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 07:42 PM
i see now it is inevitable that there will be a lathe in my garage. you guys are killing me.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 07:45 PM
I've started this response and deleted it several times looking for the right wording, but now I'm not going there:D .
I do have a question about how You were going to attach the balls on either end without compromising the sterility issue or the unfortunate possibility of an end falling off while in the a...err...use cycle:eek: ?

Steve

my plan was to mill a flat surface onto the balls and weld the balls onto the rod. then bend the whole thing. I can't make one that will look IDENTICAL to the one in the picture, but it will be close enough... and will "do the job".

whitis
01-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Given the application, treat this with approximately the same level of care as you would if you were making body piercing jewelery or surgical instruments.

Overall smoothness of shape and surface finish will be important as will be the absence of things like flux or cutting fluid residues. Sanitary welds, such as used on brewery and dairy equipment, are appropriate although if your welds are void free and ground down past the intersection with the base material that may be equivalent. A long time in a tumbler or vibratory polisher with a virgin container and fresh media (from a piercing supplier) would be appropriate, working down to very fine media. Get a mirror finish. Wash thoroughly. Electropolishing using non hazardous chemicals might be worth considering as this may discourage biofilm adhesion. Use your finger to thoroughly test for any burrs or rough spots. Passivate the stainless (citric acid) and sterilize in a pressure cooker or autoclave. Without passivation after fabrication, the stainless can corrode and the body can be affected by the nickel in the alloy.

316 is one of the few suitable materials, I would not substitute 303. 316L would be a bit better, but much harder to find, especially in prefabricated balls and tapers. 316LVM would be better, but probably overkill. Ti6A4V ELI Titanium, Niobium, Platinum, and some grades of gold would also be suitable. 316 is about the minimum. In the event of nickel allergies, 316LVM should be tolerated if properly passivated. Apparenlty, the nickel in 316 gives resistance to corrosive effects of bodily fluids; passivation protects the body from the nickel. Beware of metal suppliers who may substitute inferior alloys.

Turning that taper about the spindle axis would be tricky. You would need a lathe tool holder slightly over 12" high and with substantial rigidity and you would need to raise the head 12" which means your mill would need to be capable of about 25" of daylight between the spindle and the table. Plus the part would deflect. You could get by with less daylight by cutting the taper in sections but then you are likely to need a lot more smoothing. Rotary table A axis with tailstock would be more practical but slow. Off the shelf taper pin would save a lot of grief but thoroughly clean cutting fluid residues.

doctor demo
01-06-2010, 07:55 PM
i see now it is inevitable that there will be a lathe in my garage. you guys are killing me.
We aren't killing You, but Your Wife may when She finds out that this all over the World Wide Web now.
You definately want that ''part'' to be a one piece ''part''
Too bad I'm not closer, I'd get involved just for giggles.

So let 's add it up: New lathe $3500.00
New part time buis.....not bad
Shiney new toys for the Wife, and Her Friends.....priceless
Steve

Your Old Dog
01-06-2010, 08:06 PM
Is it like one of those colour-changing Hot Wheels Cars then? :D

Yes, it's more like a car then a garage I think.

On a serious note, how many members here think a project like this is a good one for a guy who is just buying his first lathe. I haven't fooled with stainless as I'm told it cuts like hell when threading. I know first hand from my engraving days that it is very gummy to cut with a chisel. In other words, he may get the lathe and still not be able to put a smile on his wife and her friends faces :o

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 08:17 PM
Whitis... thanks for the tips on the finish.

regarding turning the taper on the spindle axis... the tool holder will not have to be 12"+. I was thinking of making one that for cutting this way / ... cut half way, then flip the rod, and use another that cuts in in the \ direction.

with no machining experience, that's was one of the jerry-riggin' ideas i came up with.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 08:18 PM
just out of curiosity, how would one cut a taper with a lathe?

doctor demo
01-06-2010, 08:31 PM
A short taper can be cut by turning the cross slide compound to the apropriate angne needed. A long taper is easier cut by using a taper attachment. Not all lathes have taper attachments. A recent HSM or MW has a''building a taper attachment'' article/series that has just started IIRC.

Steve

Fasttrack
01-06-2010, 08:38 PM
ROTFLMAO - I can honestly say I've never seen this one come up on the forum before... some of the guys who've been around here a while start complaining that they've "seen it all" (so to speak) when it comes to the threads that new guys post. Well you take the cake for an original post.

I'm still chuckling...

My first thought was to buy a taper pin, as well, since 1/4" per foot is the standard taper. No idea where you would find one the full 12" long, though. Forging is an interesting idea, but the lathe would probably be the easiest if you can find someone willing to do it for you.

edit to add:

316 SS is a good choice but it is difficult to machine if you're new to the game. The number one mistake that people make when working with SS is keeping the feed to low. You will really appreciate a stout machine because you need to take a fairly heavy DOC with a pretty quick feed to cut the SS instead of just work hardening it. But, if you have a flexible machine, the tool will "push" out of the cut and work harden it anyway. It can be very frusterating. ;) 316L should be a little bit easier to machine. I would not worry so much about making it all in one piece, as long as you are a good welder. I've been making vacuum welds with a TIG in SS for a while now and I can lay down a very small, very smooth consistent bead, which I think are the main characteristics you are after.

You don't absolutely need a taper attachment, although it makes things easier. Back in the day, you would hold the part between centers - that is, put a ball nose center in the headstock and one in the tailstock and drive the part via a lathe dog. Notice the "ball nose" centers! Then, the tailstock is set over from center, so you are effectively holding your part at some angle WRT the lathe ways. So, if you buy a lathe, don't worry if it doesn't have a TA.

Dan Dubeau
01-06-2010, 08:48 PM
Lathe job.

Kind of ironic don't you think? A man making his replacement, on machine that can make it's own replacement.

If you're wife asking you to make this isn't a sure fire sign that she thinks you're spending too much time in the shop, I don't know what is. :D . Looks like as good a reason as any to spring for a new lathe. Just be thank full you don't need something with a 3" spindle bore. :eek:

Fasttrack
01-06-2010, 08:49 PM
I've started this response and deleted it several times looking for the right wording, but now I'm not going there:D .
I do have a question about how You were going to attach the balls on either end without compromising the sterility issue or the unfortunate possibility of an end falling off while in the a...err...use cycle:eek: ?

Steve


Sterility won't be an issue if he TIGs the balls on. He can go the "all killer and no filler" route as per vacuum welding procedure and end up with a very nice, smooth, consistent bead with no porosity.

Erm... balls falling off? We're talking about like 2.25" of weld bead on the small ball (3/4" diameter = ~ 2.25" circumfrence). If she likes it rough enough to worry about ripping apart 2.25" of weld ... I'd be pretty damn scared if I was wagnerite :eek:

edit to add:
Wagnerite, for future reference, just claim they are "back massagers" :D

doctor demo
01-06-2010, 08:50 PM
You don't absolutely need a taper attachment, although it makes things easier. Back in the day, you would hold the part between centers - that is, put a ball nose center in the headstock and one in the tailstock and drive the part via a lathe dog. Notice the "ball nose" centers! Then, the tailstock is set over from center, so you are effectively holding your part at some angle WRT the lathe ways. So, if you buy a lathe, don't worry if it doesn't have a TA.


Duh, I completely forgot about setting over the tailstock:o .

Steve

67chevelle
01-06-2010, 08:51 PM
LOL..


:rolleyes: This should get interesting. :cool:


wagnerite,

I don't have any input on the technical issues that you've raised here, but really want to thank you for this post. I had to spend the last 2 days doing some rework on a welding/fab project that I still haven't been paid for and have been feeling pretty down. Your post improved my mood significantly.


Mark

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 09:21 PM
Mark, glad you got a kick outta this. I've been mauling over this for a few weeks now, and have gotten pretty frustrated over my inability to come up with a solution on my own with my own tools.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 09:30 PM
I will try to fusion weld first, it should do the trick. but thats a little down the line, i dont even have a lathe, er, i mean, tapered rod yet...

Carld
01-06-2010, 09:45 PM
:o well, after looking at several sex toy sites I found it :eek: .

wagnerite, just go buy one. ;)

Bmyers
01-06-2010, 09:55 PM
:o well, after looking at several sex toy sites I found it :eek: .

wagnerite, just go buy one. ;)

Gonna post the URL ?

Carld
01-06-2010, 09:57 PM
Uhhh, no, I'd have to look at all those sites again. Well, it was kind of interesting though :o

Well, if you insist http://www.extremerestraints.com/classic-dildos_184/the-curvy-steel-dildo_3134.html

lazlo
01-06-2010, 10:19 PM
Sterility won't be an issue if he TIGs the balls on.

This thread has to go down in HSM Forum history... ;)

Wagnerite, you should really consider a free machining stainless like 303 or 416. It will be much easier to get a good finish. Also, you're making an anatomical version of what's commonly known in Model Engineering as a ball handle. If you get a lathe, you can build a radius turning attachment, and turn the balls right into the stock, like so:

http://www.haythornthwaite.com/Assets/Ball%20Turning%20(2).JPG

That would avoid any embarrassing moments if weld-on or screw-on balls were to dislodge.

wagnerite
01-06-2010, 10:22 PM
for those who wonder what the gizmo is, just google "njoy pure wand" and if you're interested then read the reviews if you want. all I know is that $100 is a lot for these sort of things. but every review has said "worth every penny"

I'm sure all of you are the "why-buy-it-if-i-can-make-it" type of folks... I'm gonna give this idea a few more days before I give up on it & just buy one. Its for sale, someone made it, I want to make one. if I don't, that'll mean defeat. I'm not gonna be beaten by a "toy".

Tony Ennis
01-06-2010, 10:23 PM
Could it be we finally found something Evan doesn't know how to make?

RKW
01-06-2010, 10:32 PM
Cheapest price seemed to be about $70, but I'm with you on the challenge. You'll love having a lathe, they don't call them "Queen of the Shop" for nothing.


for those who wonder what the gizmo is, just google "njoy pure wand" and if you're interested then read the reviews if you want. all I know is that $100 is a lot for these sort of things. but every review has said "worth every penny"

I'm sure all of you are the "why-buy-it-if-i-can-make-it" type of folks... I'm gonna give this idea a few more days before I give up on it & just buy one. Its for sale, someone made it, I want to make one. if I don't, that'll mean defeat. I'm not gonna be beaten by a "toy".

mechanicalmagic
01-06-2010, 10:41 PM
Could it be we finally found something Evan doesn't know how to make?
I doubt it.
Perhaps he doesn't want to touch the topic?

Can this be done on a mill? Sure, chuck up the stock in a collet, if you can, set the head axis horizontal. Get a couple of good files, and have at it. This is not precision, it's art. The old stories about apprentice machinists being asked to make a precision cube out of stock come to mind.
OK, cheat some, get a flap disk/grinding wheel on a HF 4" angle grinder. Cover the ways. This couldn't take more than an hour, given the +-1/8" precision.

darryl
01-06-2010, 10:54 PM
Ahh, now I understand- 'couldn't come up with a solution' something about balls falling off, sterility issue, 'don't even have a tapered rod'. Sorry man. :) Boy, this sounds like a really good reason for your wife to let you get a lathe, a good one too! Don't blow it-

Ries
01-07-2010, 01:00 AM
I did research forging and found out that forging stainless steel at a home shop level is practically impossible. Years ago, grandpa and dad built and ran several glass factories, that would have helped. A day late and a dollar short :(

wherever you researched is wrong.
I forge stainless almost every day in my slightly oversized home shop.
I have forged several tons of it a year for the last 6 or 8 years now.
mostly 304, but thats just because its the cheapest- I have forged 316 too.

You need the standard blacksmiths stuff, of course- a forge, an anvil, hand tools. I use a small power hammer and an assortment of swage tools, some homemade, some purchased.

I forge things like this, with at least as much material movement as you are discussing, easily and quickly.
This knife, for example, is 316 stainless, made from rebar left over from the new bridge in Coos Bay Oregon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/rebarknife.jpg

or this footstool- this is 304, started out as 1 1/2" round bar, I pulled the tapers in just a few minutes. They are textured hot, machined square, hot twisted, and the balls at the bottom are attached to machined feet- but the actual balls are exactly like what you are discussing. I am working on a coffee table right now that has forged ball feet. It wasnt that hard- if you know how to forge.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/Ries/stool1.jpg

Machinist-Guide
01-07-2010, 01:22 AM
This can be done if your mill has a knee feed and if I can figure out how to explain how to do it.
First figure out the angle.
Next tilt your head on the angle
Put the rod in a tool holder.
Strap a lathe tool to the table and feed the knee up.
Feeding the quill wont work you have to feed the table up
because the rod is 12" long be prepaird for some major chatter on the lower end of the rod.
Take small cut's
Good Luck
I have done this a lot on shorter pins but never on anything 12"

beanbag
01-07-2010, 01:46 AM
For those that can't take a hint.....
It is a "ladies toy"..........

That's discrimination! Why can't I play with it also?!?!

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 02:05 AM
That's discrimination! Why can't I play with it also?!?!

who said you can't?

this is the reason i'm spending so much time on this. Not that i want to play with it, but this gizmo is "unisex." its NOT for women only. a toy that's both for women and men (who are into that sort of thing) effectively doubles the potential clientele. :o

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 02:38 AM
Lazlo, that one at the bottom of your picture is pretty much what i'm after except on a larger scale. Coming from a welding background, naturally, i thought of welding the ball ends on. But i like your idea better.

Ries, knife adn chair looks great! what was told to me was that i need to forge the SS in oxygen free environment which is not something i can achieve in a home shop. Now i think that's probably bad information i got, since you're doing it in a "homeshop" type environment. I've checked out several instructional DVDs in forging (not stainless steel). Unfortunately, getting into forging is just not an option for me right now. I'm spreading too thin as it is. Over the past year, i have taught myself how to o/a, mig and tig weld. now i mostly tig. my tooling for welding is pretty complete, but just now getting into machining. You have any resources (or internet buddies) that are in so cal who can forge SS and be willing to help me out?

mechanicalmagic, i have a round post mill/drill, the head doesnt swivel. I did think of using my 4 1/2" angle grinder while the rod is spinning in the spindle (vertically).... my question is, will this damage my mill? i would try to make thin cuts, but being human, if i lean into it too much, will that be bad for my mill?

darryl, sterility is referring to the stainless steel, not myself :p

i'll reiterate, this is not for me to use, although men *CAN use it (not only a back massager) :o

I'm not looking to make 10,000 of these and make a killing. I just want to make 6 or 8. I say that, because local steel supplier will only sell me 12' piece stock. I'll sell them to friends of my wife, or their gay friends or whoever, i'll charge somewhere between the cost of material per piece and the real-deal's price... just enough to cover the cost of material and a little bit of my time.

beanbag
01-07-2010, 03:04 AM
who said you can't?



yaaaaayyyyy!

So how do you use it?


Edit: OH MY GOD!

whitis
01-07-2010, 03:28 AM
Whitis... thanks for the tips on the finish.

regarding turning the taper on the spindle axis... the tool holder will not have to be 12"+. I was thinking of making one that for cutting this way / ... cut half way, then flip the rod, and use another that cuts in in the \ direction.


You are welcome.

Yeah, the flip technique was one I was thinking of when I alluded to cutting in sections and could require less daylight. If you spindle bore isn't enough to slide the rod partway through or you lack a lathe chuck or collets with a hollow draw bar, though, your work will be cantilevered rather far and chatter could be a serious problem (work that long is normally turned between centers and/or with steady/follower rests on a lathe). You are likely to have a ridge that has to be touched up in finishing. If you decide to go that way, consider going with a larger diameter rod and making or adapting a radius turning attachment to make the balls and a smaller concave radius where the balls meet the taper and do an entire half of the unit in each chucking. You could also use a round nose tool with the radius of the fillet and avoid a second radius turning operation. This avoids the need for a sanitary weld or equivalent. There is another problem with flipping, and that is holding the work by a portion that is now tapered which could require a custom collet or taper adapter. A split collet could even clear the ball but most spindle bores aren't big enough for a 1" ball but R8 could barely fit a slightly smaller ball with no room for collet walls.. Crazy
Glue might barely have the stength to glue a draw bar adapter to the ball and withstand draw bar forces (heat will break the Crazy Glue). Don't substitute Super Glue as it is less biologically compatible. Crazy Glue is similar but not identical to skin adhesive though sensitization can still be an issue - so still best to remove any residue. Boiling water and elbow grease might work, acetone could cause more problems than it solves. Soap and baking soda also help. An adequate spindle bore (such as on a lathe) or a threaded protrusion to be removed later eliminates the need for adhesive.

Mechanicalmagic has an idea, too, with tilting the head 90 degrees if your machine has that capability. Another possibility is to tilt 90 degrees minus the taper angle, chuck a lathe tool in your vice and cut the taper (small end towards big end with the big end chucked). Accuracy of the taper isn't critical, but rigidity and chatter might be an issue.

His suggestion of using files is reasonable. You don't need interchangeable parts. And you can use a template for getting the taper and the ball radius approximately right. Do read up on safety tips for using files on a lathe. Rotating machinery, files, and soft flesh can be a dangerous combination. Files could also be used to touch up features which were roughed in by machining before using a tumbler/vibratory polisher. You can also polish while turning with an abrasive loaded cloth but abrasives can cause trouble when they get into sensitive parts of your machine.

Regarding your question on taper turning on a lathe, there are a number of methods employed: Using the compound top slide (usually limited to a few inches), using a taper turning attachment (a rail parallel to the ways that guides the cross slide), offsetting the tailstock while turning between centers, rotating the headstock (on the few machines such as Sherline that allow this), and CNC.

And yeah, you don't want the weld on balls to break. Amateur MIG welds, in particular, are notorious for looking great but having no penetration and being very easy to break. The ball itself isn't the problem (rather mild as Vaginal Foreign Objects go), it is the SHARP edge of the weld that remains on either the ball or the taper when the other part is removed.

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 03:39 AM
yaaaaayyyyy!

So how do you use it?


Edit: OH MY GOD!

yeah, i'm not into it either. :eek:
but hey, different strokes for different folks, whatever floats your (or their) boat, right?:D :D

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 03:52 AM
I dont have a mill with a tilt-able head. I will try the filing method.

the easy way out, is, of course, just use a 3/4" rod. I have a feeling that the tapering feature is purely visual, and to add weight.

From what i can gather, after reading at least 50 reviews, here's the main features that they liked:
choice of two different spheres (we are all made a little different)
the geometry (leverage, fulcrum.. i understand both, but not when it is applied to female anatomy, so all i can do is duplicate the geometry)
SS is easy clean up (even i understand that one)
weight (apparently, weight made it easier to "operate") if i use a 3/4" rod, it wont have the same weight "imbalance". it would be slightly more balanced. we'll see if this affect the operation of the device.

coldness is not an issue, it doesnt take very long for that chunk of SS to warm up to acceptable temperature.

Thanks all for all the non-judgmental, creative ideas and useful help... please continue to contribute. I have read all posts several times and will reread them in the days to come to make sure i missed nothing.

in the end, you guys are all sick-puppies, just like me :D :D :D thanks again

philbur
01-07-2010, 04:10 AM
You can do these ball-ends on a mill, I did. first use the mill as a lathe to cut the ball end under-cuts, then: mount the work-piece in a collet in the spindle. Mount the cutting tool in a boring head, mounted in a chuck, mounted on a rotary table, mounted vertically on the mill table. Instant radius turning attachment for a mill. There are of course other permutations for mounting the boring head on the rotary table.

This was one of those set-ups where you think this is never going to work and then surprise, surprise it working like a dream first time out.

Phil:)


This thread has to go down in HSM Forum history... ;)

Wagnerite, you should really consider a free machining stainless like 303 or 416. It will be much easier to get a good finish. Also, you're making an anatomical version of what's commonly known in Model Engineering as a ball handle. If you get a lathe, you can build a radius turning attachment, and turn the balls right into the stock, like so:

http://www.haythornthwaite.com/Assets/Ball%20Turning%20(2).JPG

That would avoid any embarrassing moments if weld-on or screw-on balls were to dislodge.

Ian B
01-07-2010, 05:37 AM
Wagnerite,

Great project! HSM'ers should do much more of this sort of thing (note that the "SM" in "HSM" stands for "Shop Machinists"...)

This looks like a perfect job to machine from SS bar stock, without welding any balls onto tapered rods. Pretty much all lathes allow you to set the tailstock over, which will give you just the taper you want. You'll need a ball turning attachment for the ends, but there have been many of those described on this board. But, considering that the ends have only to be kinda spherical, machining something like that shape by hand is easy enough, finish with a file and emery.

Overall, the perfect excuse to get a lathe.

Machine it, heat it, bend it and polish it - and post the "user feedback"

Ian

Allan Waterfall
01-07-2010, 06:44 AM
Will you need to keep trying it for the correct fit ?:D
Is it one size fits all or will individual fitting be needed?:)
Will it need a battery compartment?

Allan

Ian B
01-07-2010, 07:11 AM
...and we haven't even *started* discussing the pros & cons of water based vs oil based lubricants yet.

For machining the 316 SS, of course...

Black_Moons
01-07-2010, 07:34 AM
I think you should start from scratch and get some messurements and do some test fittings... j/k but I had to.

If you do weld it, you'll need to seriously grind down your welds. Die grinder, angle grinder (With a disk that has been previously used and 'rounded' off, not a fresh disk), etc.

Weld strength? Are you guys kidding me?? Hit it with a hammer if it holds its welded more then it will ever need to be for this application. Other options could be silver solder

Of course now that I think about it, if you did weld it, you might wanna look into some kinda 'dye' kit for crack inspection (nono... not hers..) as any cracks could retain fluid that would be hard to steralise without boiling.
Evan likey knows some way to do this with toothpaste and layout fluid or something.. j/k. But prove me wrong (Or is that prove me right?) evan!


And as far as shape. Research the G-spot. I believe thats the whole point of the curve and balls.

lazlo
01-07-2010, 09:28 AM
Lazlo, that one at the bottom of your picture is pretty much what i'm after except on a larger scale.

Those are all the same piece, in different stages.

Ries: why is forging stainless harder than carbon steel?

jkilroy
01-07-2010, 10:04 AM
I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd thats all I can say!

Why make it out of 316? Make it out of 303, the machine friendly stainless.

jihe
01-07-2010, 10:22 AM
I laughed loudly today when I saw the title of this thread in a list on "the other site":
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=195811

Ries
01-07-2010, 12:27 PM
Ries: why is forging stainless harder than carbon steel?

Chromium and Nickel, mostly.
Stainless isnt "harder" in the technical sense of the word- that is, on the rockwell scale, or similar measurement systems, there are plenty of tool steels harder than stainless.
But stainless is "tougher".

General rule of thumb for forging stainless is that you have to hit at least 50% harder to get the same movement you would in mild steel.
So that means bigger hammers, be they manual or automated.

I use an 88lb ram weight self contained air hammer, and it is barely big enough to forge stainless much over 1 1/4" diameter- but will forge 2" mild steel.

Stainless also cools off quicker than mild steel, and once it passes out of dull red, gets a lot harder to work, so it must be worked hotter than mild. Mild is pretty forgiving.

davidfe
01-07-2010, 12:30 PM
I don't want to sound stupid, but what is that thing used for?

The next thing, even if you are able to make it, will your wife use it? I made a sweet little doorbell button on my lathe and mill for our house and my wife didn't like it (didn't go with style of house). It might be cheaper to spend the $90.00.

- T

http://www.thebuzzclub.co.nz/

Dawai
01-07-2010, 12:42 PM
I used to make my own tattoo machine frames from 316...

It can be challenging... what I love about it, it can be the ugliest thing you ever saw, all burned black.. step through the rouges and when you get to the white rouge it is too slippery to hold onto.

THIS,,,,,,,,, Sounds like a excellent opportunity to USE THE EXCUSE,,,,, to buy more machine tools.. COOL.... Look at all the money you can save... HONEY is how you approach that.. and.....

If you need robotics help.. well I ain't going into that.. but remote operation is possible...

A true man can make anything for his wife, or go purchase tampons or Ky jelly from a giggling 15 year old store clerk.. AND, I painted my motorsickle purple too..

vpt
01-07-2010, 01:54 PM
Great thread! I am inspired to make one as well for the wife. I noticed that the URL link posted a couple pages back says that the product is SOLD OUT! lol I wonder if it has anything to do with this thread?


I think buying a lathe is in order here. Offset the tailstock like mentioned to turn the taper. Weld the balls on, back in the lathe with a file to smooth out the weld and than onto the emery cloth and polishing compounds.

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 02:04 PM
Will you need to keep trying it for the correct fit ?:D
Is it one size fits all or will individual fitting be needed?:)
Will it need a battery compartment?
Allan

Fitting process has been done already. If you want one, i'll tell you how to do the fitting;)
no battery compartment. this is the major draw back for this piece. It's quite expensive for being manual-operated.


I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd thats all I can say!
Why make it out of 316? Make it out of 303, the machine friendly stainless.
as far as i know, 316 is more "food grade" whatever that means. It might be over kill, but i rather error on the side of causion.


I laughed loudly today when I saw the title of this thread in a list on "the other site":
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=195811
thats a good one. its not me though. the P-M poster actually knows what he's doing.

wagnerite
01-07-2010, 02:32 PM
there is one issue still that I have been avoiding. on the real product, the spheres are mounted off-center. Its not a big deal, I'm sure center of sphere lining up with center vs. off-set original wont matter much in the end result.

here's the drawing, again, sorry that they're in 2D. would making either versions be equal in difficulty level? or the offset version (bottom) be more difficult?

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg93/waggie51/machining/centervsoffset.jpg

RKW
01-07-2010, 03:34 PM
I think that offsetting the balls is probably unnecessary since the overall bend in the device takes care "reaching" where it needs to. I guess the balls are offset since only one area/side of the ball is actually used so they just made it more pronounced on that side. It would probably work fine without that step. There may be lots of prototypes and testing needed here ;-)


there is one issue still that I have been avoiding. on the real product, the spheres are mounted off-center. Its not a big deal, I'm sure center of sphere lining up with center vs. off-set original wont matter much in the end result.

here's the drawing, again, sorry that they're in 2D. would making either versions be equal in difficulty level? or the offset version (bottom) be more difficult?

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg93/waggie51/machining/centervsoffset.jpg

mechanicalmagic
01-07-2010, 03:51 PM
I see no issue with the offset. It could be done on a larger mill with a 1" end mill. In your case, you will probably need to use a boring bar. Start by drilling a hole to depth, off center, then bore to size.

Or, you mill a flat on the ball, then machine an angle on the tapered rod. It will not match perfectly, but you are going to weld it up anyway.

And, I'm another one to encourage a lathe purchase, and a home brew Holdridge ball turning attachment. Then you could machine your own hemispheres, hollow, and add another ball within before welding into a full sphere. Google Ben Wa ball. NOW you have a new patient-able item.

strokersix
01-07-2010, 08:04 PM
If you still want to do the taper on your mill how about this:

Start with a longer piece than the end result so you have something to hold onto. Mill a hex on one end. Get a couple 1" pillow block shafting bearings at a farm supply or well stocked hardware store. They usually allow for sperical alignment so you can clamp them on your mill table at different heights according to the desired taper.

Use an end mill to turn down the taper, advance the table, make a revolution with a large box wrench on the shaft end, and repeat till the taper is complete. Be mindful of the cutter direction and forces so it doesn't grab and bite you.

Carm
01-08-2010, 07:03 AM
Strokersix, great aptonym for this thread.

oldtiffie
01-08-2010, 07:16 AM
Brilliant - and a double (triple?) entendre as well!!

Loved it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptonym

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_entendre

michael3fingers
01-08-2010, 08:02 AM
any one curious about this toy should right click the image the select properties. there is enough info in the source line to figure it out:)

Bazz
01-08-2010, 09:15 AM
You have drill press ?

weld a bolt at one end and use your grinder with a sand paper pad

you can support the other end with a wooden block with a 1 inch hole in it

if your good form the ball also and finish on a belt grinder or with sand paper on your drill press ,to form the ball make a steady rest out of wood to support the center area

it should not take you more than 1 hour with this method make a nice template and go!