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View Full Version : Is true Aloris worth 2 or 3x the price of Phase2



Slop
01-07-2010, 09:07 PM
I can pick up a nice used Aloris AXA setup, post + 4 holders, for about 2.5x what it would cost to purchase a Phase2 setup. Is it worth it?

mechanicalmagic
01-07-2010, 09:17 PM
That depends on the way you use the tool post.

If you expect to change tools rapidly, and have .0001" repeatability on all tools, then YES.
If you are a home shop, making one offs, and never expect a tool to repeat with accuracy, it's a waste of money.
Also, the Aloris may be more rigid. But, are you putting this on a Craftsman or a Mori Seki, you might be putting a Rolex on a pig.

Slop
01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Lipstick on a pig? Why is my wife getting dragged into this lol. Hope she don't see it. :D

It's going on a lathemaster 8x30.

rolland
01-07-2010, 09:19 PM
My opinion No. I would get a phase 2 and use the extra money to buy extra tool holders. It seems that I never have enough tool holders. I have a Phase 2 and it is quite accurate I got it many years ago so I don't know how the newer ones are. besides I never could afford an Aoris.

lazlo
01-07-2010, 09:22 PM
I have both, and the Aloris is much nicer than the Chinese copy, no surprise. The biggest difference is in the toolpost itself, so one option is to buy the real Aloris toolpost used, and make a bunch of toolholders.

Rich Carlstedt
01-07-2010, 09:33 PM
This is the used Caddy versus new Chevy discussion.
Sort of like a new import Micrometer verus a used Starritt or B&S
Mechanicalmagic has excellent points but I'm with lazlo

Rich

gnm109
01-07-2010, 09:36 PM
I have a Phase II that is 14 years old now. It's excellent although I never had an Aloris to compare. I don't worry about repeataqbility. I'm still having trouble doing things once. LOL.

clutch
01-07-2010, 09:53 PM
I have an Aloris. Came with the lathe. Outside of my threading tool holder which is Aloris, all my other holders are Chinese. I have a chunk of A36 that I'm going to make some boring tool holders out of.

I don't recall hearing people b*tch about Phase II posts and holders so they can't be total crap. Either one beats a rocker tool post.

That Aloris emblem looking back at me does look nice though :D

Clutch

SVS
01-07-2010, 09:55 PM
2X Phase II wedge price should take most Aloris sets on e bay. Individual holders-especially the nicer, rarer, and cooler ones get scary close to retail.

IMHO a good Aloris is about 25% better than Phase II and half the advantage is psychological.

Slop
01-07-2010, 09:59 PM
Thanks all.

oldtiffie
01-07-2010, 10:05 PM
I can pick up a nice used Aloris AXA setup, post + 4 holders, for about 2.5x what it would cost to purchase a Phase2 setup. Is it worth it?

The OP's question is more a question that needs an answer based on what he needs as opposed to what he'd like to get or have.

"Worth" suggests value for money in that the tool-post/set-up only needs to be at or just a bit above being "satisfactory" for his purposes - in other words - value for money (which has or seems to have a limit of cost).

"Repeatability" rather suggest a repetition process where tool set-up and multiple pre-set tool-holders are in the "need to have" rather than the "nice to have" category.

"Repetition" work is "process" work which was mind-numbingly boring on a long run on a turret or capstan lathe - which is what justified CNC/NC-ed lathes with precision pre-set auto-indexing sequentiality-controlled lathes - and tool-posts.

As regards my situation vis-a-vis the OP's question re super-accurate re-indexing tool-post/s:
- do I want one? Not really;
- do I need one? No;
- why? Because I am working how and when I choose in my hobby shop - not tear-ar$ing making like I am a real-time or pseudo "production shop".

Once the job or shop starts driving me - or I let it - then its "down tools" time and time for me to re-assess where I'm at and where I seem to be going.

I'd be quite happy to go back to tool-bits in tool-holders in a lantern tool-post if I had to.

Its all too easy to "buy up large" and later have to regret it when I/we have to by-pass a really good and necessary buy because I/we had paid more than necessary for something that turned out to be not quite as necessary as we thought (hoped?) it was (going to be?) when we bought it.

Have I committed those sins?

Damned right I have - lots of times.

Will I keep doing it?

Certainly.

Carld
01-08-2010, 12:12 AM
At work I used the Aloris and other QC tool holders and the Phase II and they all worked just fine. I do prefer the wedge type though.

As to repeatability I have a Phase II on my lathe at home and I can put a tool holder on it and take a light cut on a shaft, remove the holder and put it back on and take a cut on the shaft farther along the shaft than the first cut and do it several times and it still cuts the same size as the first cut as long as I keep the dovetails clean and clamp it tight. I can take a cut, remove the shaft and holder, put a new shaft in and the holder on and take a cut without moving anything and get the same size again.

Your not going to make be believe that non repeatability bull. Now someday when it's worn out after I die it may have a problem but the other brands will too.

lazlo
01-08-2010, 09:16 AM
This is the used Caddy versus new Chevy discussion.
Sort of like a new import Micrometer versus a used Starrett or B&S

Perfect summary.

Carld
01-08-2010, 09:31 AM
I don't entirely agree with that analogy. More like top price Caddy to lower priced Caddy.

lazlo
01-08-2010, 09:35 AM
I don't entirely agree with that analogy. More like top price Caddy to lower priced Caddy.

My Phase II (piston) toolpost works fine, but it sure isn't a Caddy. Doesn't compare to the Aloris wedge-based toolpost on my 5914.

Like I said earlier, if you replace the setscrews, the Chicom toolholders are fine in most cases, but the toolpost is vastly different.

Carld
01-08-2010, 09:46 AM
Well of course a piston type is not is good as the wedge type. As I said, I have used four or five different type QC tool posts and the Aloris and Phase II are almost identical except for price. If you want prestige buy the Aloris but if you can't afford that buy the Phase II. They both do the same quality of work.

lazlo
01-08-2010, 09:51 AM
As I said, I have used four or five different type QC tool posts and the Aloris and Phase II are almost identical except for price. If you want prestige buy the Aloris but if you can't afford that buy the Phase II.

Carl, I have both, on two different lathes, and there's worlds of difference between my Aloris and my Phase II toolpost. It's much more than just prestige, anymore than the difference between a Mitutoyo micrometer and a Phase II micrometer is prestige.


They both do the same quality of work.

They both hold a lathe tool, but like someone said, you can do that with a lantern toolpost too.

This comes up all the time with the Kurt clones. If you have one, you're more likely to say that it's just as good as a real Kurt, and that the difference is just prestige. Once you upgrade to a real Kurt, you can't believe that you've tortured yourself all these years ;)

So, like Tiffie says, the OP will have to decide on what accounts for value. Slop: if you get a chance, you need to see them (and preferably use them) in person. At the least, see/use an Aloris, and then order the Phase II from a vendor like Enco who will return it for free.

Slop
01-08-2010, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the replies all. I ended up with Aloris. Why? Well, I've been downsizing from a clausing 13x36 to a lathemaster 9x30. The Aloris BXA that came with the clausing, was a straight-up trade to an Aloris AXA plus a few bucks for my pocket. Now I'll just pick up some extra tool holders.

Thanks for the feedback.

Carld
01-08-2010, 10:08 AM
How many times do I have to say that I have used both the Aloris and Phase II and found no difference in the quality of work they will turn out.

Let me say it again, I have used both, I have torn both down, they are almost identical, they both turn out quality work.

When I bought one for my shop I bought the Phase II and I guarantee you it does a quality job and does repeat within your .0002" requirement.

I only worked in job shops for about 15 years +/- so I don't have extensive experience but many times it was part of my duties to maintain the machines and tools. I found out a lot doing that because you have to tear things apart to repair them or clean them.

EDIT: I will agree to disagree.