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Fasttrack
01-08-2010, 02:00 PM
Well, I have not accomplished much, yet. I did start learning how to scrape and thought I'd fiddle-fart around with some shaper parts. First, though, let me post my new outline of what I'd like to do with the shaper.

Give the condition of the components I have examined and the fact that I don't really need a shaper, I think I will make this a long-term, full (ish) restoration project. The following outline is somewhat dependent upon the fact that my shaper is currently hours away, but some of the smaller components I can take with me to school, etc and work on them.

(p.s. I still have not heard any definitive remakrs regarding what some of these parts should be called, so if I've mislabelled something, let me know!)

~ Scrape horizontal dovetails on the compound slide flat and coplanar
~ Scrape the angle section of the dovetails on the compound flat and parallel
~ Scrape ram face flat ****
~ Use the face to spot the base of the compound and scrape base flat
~ Scrape horizontal section of compound base dovetails flat, coplanar and parallel to the base
~ Use compound slide to spot one base dovetail
~ Scrape the other base dovetail flat (this one is tapered for a tapered gib)
~ Use Connelly's "Method no. 1" for scraping the tapered gib (it will give me more scraping practice)

~ Remove ram and scrape horizontal section of dovetails - this must be kept perpindicular to the ram face ****
~ Scrape matching dovetails on machine column being careful to keep these surfaces in the initial alignment (I expect these to have a flat gib - surely a 26" shaper wouldn't have like a 6' long taper gib ...) ****
~ Use these dovetails to spot the angled portion of the ram dovetails

~Scrape horizontal knee dovetails flat and perpindicular to ram/parallel to ram face ****
~Scrape remaining dovetails in similar manner

I'm still not settled in my "plan of attack" and the **** are areas of concern. I feel like there should be a way to clean this process up so I'd be less likely to make a colossal mistake that would result in a huge amount of extra work to correct. I'm not really sure how to efficiently keep the table/ram/compound in alignment. Any thoughts, suggestions, etc?

So ... what I have done is scrape the horizontal surface on compound base. It is not finished yet and I will finish it after I scrape the "backside" of it flat so I can keep the two planes parallel to each other. I expect that the back side and ram face will only need a tiny bit of clean up since it isn't a sliding member.

Here is the backside that contacts the face of the ram:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010708.jpg

And here is how I held it for scraping:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010710.jpg

This took a very, very long time! It was out by more than 0.005". If I had had access to my "real" machines, I probably would have done some machining to make it closer to flat. As it was, I did quite a bit of filing and then scraping. Below are some pictures of the progression.

My HSS scraper only needed to be resharpened once, though. I was very pleased with its performance. I kept one side of the blade with a much keener edge than the other so I could rough with one side and then turn the scraper over and finish with the other. (I have not yet finish scraped this piece, but I did on my angle gauge)

The first spotting:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010702.jpg

I chickened out on filing anymore because I was affraid of leaving gouges by accident so I started scraping:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010705.jpg

Notice that, initially, the surface was very smooth and the blue was heavy on the plate so I get some smearing. This did not concern me since I knew I had a long way to go.

Fasttrack
01-08-2010, 02:02 PM
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010706.jpg

Now, I took pictures at every point along the way, but I'll skip most of them ;-) Here are three more that show the progression:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010715.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010718.jpg

And finally this is where I left it:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n22/fasttrack237/Scraping/P1010723.jpg


That series of pictures represents about 15 hours of scraping (maybe more!??)

daryl bane
01-08-2010, 06:01 PM
Now I don't consider myself a "scraper hand", but I've done a bunch pretty successfully, and one of the mistakes I made when first starting out, is not being aggressive enough. After you said it took 15 hrs, I think this is the case. Also from the pictures, it looks like you are just spot scraping, just hitting the blue parts. Generally, I would perform a full double cut across the entire surface, stone, then spot it and start working the high spots, using a full double cut until the whole surface spots evenly, even if it is just a few spots. Then change to single cut on these high spots until they fill the surface.

daryl bane
01-08-2010, 06:18 PM
Something I forgot to add. I don't know how it all goes together, but I would scrape the backside that connects to the ram first, this you can now reference the parallelism of the top slides, dovetails, etc, using 123 blocks etc, on your surface plate. I will assume that the mounting and the slides should be parallel. You could go about it backwards, but I would think the mounting backside would be more unworn and truer to that round post.

Fasttrack
01-09-2010, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the input, Darryl. I think you are right about not being aggresive enough; the first several cycles I was scraping very "conservatively". As I got farther along, I started taking heavier cuts. It is interesting you mention double cutting across the entire surface. I think the piece I scrape I will probably do that.

And yes, I should've scraped the back flat first, but that didn't occur to me until after the fact :o

doctor demo
01-09-2010, 06:55 PM
And yes, I should've scraped the back flat first, but that didn't occur to me until after the fact :o
Scraping the back flat first may have led to more work on the front with the dovetails.
I think that scraping the front, that has more features first makes it easier to get the back paralell than the other way around.
Not that I am the final athority when it comes to scraping, My specialty is scrapping :eek: .

Steve

daryl bane
01-09-2010, 07:40 PM
The reason I talked about the backside is that, that the mating surface has to be square to that round post, that I assume goes into the ram? If you scrape in the dovetails on the other side, what are you using to reference their geometry? Basically, we should assume they are out in space. What if you scrape them all nice and true to themselves, but not to the backside and that mounting post. How will you now address that possible mounting post misalignment? And now that whole assembly will not be square thru its usable arc. Very similar to scraping in the compound on the lathe, if the rest of the compound is not referenced to the base that sits on the crosslide, you cannot guarantee that as you move the compound around it will remain square to the spindle centerline of the lathe. Do you have a copy of the "bible" Connelly's Machine Tool Reconditioning? It has a whole chapter on shapers. It can be alittle dry at times, but a wonderful resource, especially in planning out a big project. I try to tell folks that its kinda like laying bricks(bad analogy, I know) but making each of the individual parts , flat ,square and true, and that as the pieces are assembled, they maintain that geometry to the end. Also, something you have maybe already found out, that as the pieces are finished, you can use these pieces as masters to work on their mating parts. Sure, you might have to fabricate a special master, but more often than not, a mating part can be used, and that might eliminate a repetitive step.

Fasttrack
01-09-2010, 08:47 PM
The reason I talked about the backside is that, that the mating surface has to be square to that round post, that I assume goes into the ram? If you scrape in the dovetails on the other side, what are you using to reference their geometry? Basically, we should assume they are out in space. What if you scrape them all nice and true to themselves, but not to the backside and that mounting post. How will you now address that possible mounting post misalignment? And now that whole assembly will not be square thru its usable arc. Very similar to scraping in the compound on the lathe, if the rest of the compound is not referenced to the base that sits on the crosslide, you cannot guarantee that as you move the compound around it will remain square to the spindle centerline of the lathe. Do you have a copy of the "bible" Connelly's Machine Tool Reconditioning? It has a whole chapter on shapers. It can be alittle dry at times, but a wonderful resource, especially in planning out a big project. I try to tell folks that its kinda like laying bricks(bad analogy, I know) but making each of the individual parts , flat ,square and true, and that as the pieces are assembled, they maintain that geometry to the end. Also, something you have maybe already found out, that as the pieces are finished, you can use these pieces as masters to work on their mating parts. Sure, you might have to fabricate a special master, but more often than not, a mating part can be used, and that might eliminate a repetitive step.


Yes, exactly! You may have skimmed what I had earlier. I did mention that I have not finished the horizontal surface yet. I was careful to scrape "evenly" in hopes of preserving the original geometry as much as possible. I still have a little ways to go before I get blue on the entire horizontal surface, to say nothing of finish scraping. Thus, I plan on scraping the back of the piece perpindicular to the "snout" and flat. Then, I can reference this geometry while finishing up the flat horizontal section of the dovetails.

I have an electronic copy of Connelly's book, but I don't see a chapter on shapers ... ? :(

daryl bane
01-09-2010, 10:36 PM
I'll have to check my copy, and it is at the shop down the road, but I could have sworn there was a chapter on them. But I might be totally crazy too.

beckley23
01-10-2010, 11:22 AM
There is no section on shapers in MTR. I suggest that you use the section on horizontal mills as your guide.
Harry

daryl bane
01-10-2010, 12:52 PM
Well there you are, I am crazy, dadgummit, sorry about that!