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View Full Version : Price of an E.R. visit....



gregl
01-12-2010, 03:21 PM
The thread on the $700 bill for a simple furnace fan replacement caused me to think about the bill for my latest E.R. visit. I stabbed myself in the back of my hand in the fleshy part between the thumb and first finger with a wood chisel which, of course, I had just sharpened. The cut was only about 3/4 inch long and perhaps 1/4 deep -- just past the limit of the band-aids in my bathroom drawer. No pain, just steady bleeding.

So my wife drove me to the local E.R. and we were in and out in less than an hour (miracle of miracles) with a few stitches under an economy-size adhesive bandage. Frankly, if I'd had some fresh Super Glue, I would have just patched it myself and hosed the blood drops from the sidewalk between the shop and the house so no one would have been any the wiser.

Anyway, as the bills trickled in, the total ended up just a few bucks short of $2000. I'll get stuck with about $400 of that, the rest going to the insurance company. The nurse that hosed out the cut took perhaps ten minutes and the doc was in there for about five minutes doing the embroidery. Including the wallet biopsy, I got a total of about 20 minutes of attention. But I did get to keep the tweezers and scissors as a souvenir.

So the question is: How much did your last E.R. visit cost? Shop wounds only; no bypass or organ transplant bills allowed.

Those of you who have yet to enjoy a bleeding shop wound can award points in a totally arbitrary manner depending on the amount of the bill, the severity of the injury, and the creative writing skills of the victim. I'd like to give the winner a coupon for ten free sutures at a local E.R., but we'll have to settle for bragging rights.

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 03:34 PM
$32NZ, I nicked my finger using the drill press and there was no one else at home to put the band aid on for me. The nurse trimmed the ragged nail, folded the flap of skin back in place and put on a magic sticky tape that lasted for about 5 days.

daveo
01-12-2010, 03:36 PM
I got 3 stitches in the top of my knuckle 3 or 4 months ago, 15 mins total with doctor, and I made it very clear I was paying for it, no insurance! It ended up costing me $415 and thats with a 15% discount for paying within 15 days of the bill arriving.

wagnerite
01-12-2010, 03:44 PM
$800 after insurance.

making a welding table frame out of 3/16" walled 2x2. while filpping it to weld the other side, the thing fell off and landed on my foot. swelled up 1" in 2 seconds.

went to ER. got 3 x-rays, one pair of crutches and have the doc told me "its just fluids" dont worry about it.

total bill was $2000

RB211
01-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Hahaha, last time I went to the ER was in Miami... Kidney stone, had horrible excruciating pain... 1 Xray, 10,000$ usd... I didn't have insurance or a job at the time because I was a college student, so they reduced my bill down to 3,000$...
It is cheaper to die.

Jim Shaper
01-12-2010, 03:47 PM
Two broken toes; 3 pins, 6-7 follow up's, at least as many x-rays, a couple bottles of narcotic pain pills = $24 in co-pays. :D

Oldbrock
01-12-2010, 03:50 PM
My health insurance is $96 a month, five years ago I had open heart surgery to replace a heart valve and also received a pacemaker, NO EXTRA CHARGES. Move to Canada Eh. Peter

Black_Moons
01-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Now do you americans understand why health care is.. a good idea?

MickeyD
01-12-2010, 03:56 PM
We were traveling with our daughter and she developed a sensitivity to some antibiotics and we ended up in the emergency room in Hammand La at 2:00 in the morning. By the time we got the paperwork done she had recovered, but a brief once over and some medicine for her stomach and we had a $2200 bill. We had 100% coverage at the time but it still took over a year to get everything straightened out.

Evan
01-12-2010, 04:00 PM
How much did your last E.R. visit cost? Shop wounds only; no bypass or organ transplant bills allowed.


It cost $96 dollars per month for two people under the Provincial Medical Insurance Plan to deal with my infected ear a couple of years ago when I blew out an eardrum. That included an ER visit and multiple visits to specialists and numerous lab tests. There are no hospital charges for anything if you have medical insurance. That is only basic coverage and doesn't include little extras like a private room, if one is available. It does cover all required medical care including bypass surgery and heart transplants. Of course it is subsidized by the provincial government but you also have the option of going to a private clinic if you wish. That isn't covered by the provincial plan but you can buy Blue Cross that will cover it.

The cost varies across the country depending on each province's plan. There is no Federal plan or universal national coverage. If you are travelling it is wise to buy private insurance since the Provincial plans have very limited coverage when you are out of province.

gzig5
01-12-2010, 04:04 PM
Now do you americans understand why health care is.. a good idea?

Don't fool yourself. You still get stuck with the bill whether you know it or not.

dp
01-12-2010, 04:13 PM
My last trip to the ER involved a heart attack and while I have no idea what it ended up costing me, I really don't care, either. What ever it was I got over it, and the years of training, first-rate equipment, and facilities they had on hand saved my life. That is some expensive stuff. Oh - and I didn't have an appointment! :)

I doubt I'd go to the ER for a cut, though, as the ER tends to be premium service. There are family doctors, out-patient clinics, and GP offices that can typically deal with the small stuff for a fraction of what it costs in an ER.

goose
01-12-2010, 04:14 PM
Now do you americans understand why health care is.. a good idea?


Burned my hand resting it on the muffler of a pressure washer. Man, did I jump ! Trip to ER, $40 copay total costs, plus some nice prescriptions for pain medicine I never bothered with. Would have been an additional 2 * $10 = $20.

Now do you understand why private insurance companies and a free market are a good idea?



Gary

.RC.
01-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Nothing..This included an x-ray, a local anaesthetic, bandages, stiches and about 6 trips back to the outpatients over two months as it was healing....

Our public health care system is free....it is good for emergency's..Not so good for anything else...

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 04:19 PM
Don't fool yourself. You still get stuck with the bill whether you know it or not.

Ah yes, you mean I pay with my taxes? How does my tax rate compare with yours eh?:)

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 04:20 PM
Burned my hand resting it on the muffler of a pressure washer. Man, did I jump ! Trip to ER, $40 copay total costs, plus some nice prescriptions for pain medicine I never bothered with. Would have been an additional 2 * $10 = $20.

Now do you understand why private insurance companies and a free market are a good idea?



Gary

So you paid $40 plus the insurance premiums?

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 04:21 PM
Nothing..This included an x-ray, a local anaesthetic, bandages, stiches and about 6 trips back to the outpatients over two months as it was healing....

Our public health care system is free....it is good for emergency's..Not so good for anything else...


I can attest to that, I once spent a week or so in Conclurry hospital, (c1969).

gregl
01-12-2010, 04:25 PM
Artful: $32 is the cost of a single asprin in one of our hospitals. Sorry but you only get one point.

Daveo: Good negotiating skills but not enough blood. You get two points.

Wagnerite: Sounds like a fun day but you didnít say if they had to cut off your boot or not. That would have added five points to your score: 5 points.

RB211: Sorry, only shop wounds qualify for this contest.

Jim S.: Narcotic pain pills rate three points but if youíd broken the toes in some dramatic fashion you could get two more. Iíll give you five points for pins and X-rays. But the $24 in co-pays subtracts 7 points from your total which leaves you with: 1 point.

Brockley1: I hope youíre OK now, but another non-qualifier unless the heart valve went bad in reaction to stripping the back gears out of your lathe.

MickeyD: A serious event for sure and Iím glad it worked out OK, but 100% coverage reduces your score to: 1 point.

So far, Wagnerite is the leader with 5 points.

goose
01-12-2010, 04:35 PM
So you paid $40 plus the insurance premiums?


Yes.
Many of the posts on large out-of-pocket expenses are most likely from those with low cost "indemnity" plans and the like. There's a premium (pun intended) to be paid up front for "better" coverage, otherwise cut your costs and keep your fingers crossed, works for some people fine. But don't complain an ER visit costs you $$$$ and then fail to mention your monthly premiums are $75 - 150 per month.

I know, you guys don't have insurance premiums.

You have taxes.

I have choice.

Gary

Jim Shaper
01-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Ah yes, you mean I pay with my taxes? How does my tax rate compare with yours eh?:)


You really want to go there Kiwi?

You pay 100% excise tax on a large portion of your imported goods. How do I know? Because I've sent computer gear down there with "skillfully worded" content descriptions to assist a friend of mine in bypassing that tax.

Greg, they were crushed under an 840# i-beam I lost control of in the erection of my bridge crane. ;) It's very much shop related.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y242/FishyJim/Photo0032.jpg

boslab
01-12-2010, 04:42 PM
If i had to pay insurance company rates the medication i take would be about $1000 per month, i'm glad we dont have to pay [in wales for quite some time] it compensates for the 50% tax we pay i suppose.
get some adhesive sutures if you dont like the idea of sewing yourself up, remember deep cut/any cut apply pressure to the area to allow clotting, if spurting then arterial damage, pressure pad, raise above the level of your heart, try to relax as your BP will be lower [i know thats hard] get to the ER and screw the cost, slow lazy flow then you can self treat, if it hurts dont take asprin! it thins the blood viscosity almost immidiatly [good for heart attacks btw 300mg as soon as poss], apply pressure and elivate,
keep a first aid kit in the shop, a sprinkle of tumeric is a good coagulant and antiseptic [used a lot in india]
mark

oldtiffie
01-12-2010, 05:02 PM
Here is the OP:


The thread on the $700 bill for a simple furnace fan replacement caused me to think about the bill for my latest E.R. visit. I stabbed myself in the back of my hand in the fleshy part between the thumb and first finger with a wood chisel which, of course, I had just sharpened. The cut was only about 3/4 inch long and perhaps 1/4 deep -- just past the limit of the band-aids in my bathroom drawer. No pain, just steady bleeding.

So my wife drove me to the local E.R. and we were in and out in less than an hour (miracle of miracles) with a few stitches under an economy-size adhesive bandage. Frankly, if I'd had some fresh Super Glue, I would have just patched it myself and hosed the blood drops from the sidewalk between the shop and the house so no one would have been any the wiser.

Anyway, as the bills trickled in, the total ended up just a few bucks short of $2000. I'll get stuck with about $400 of that, the rest going to the insurance company. The nurse that hosed out the cut took perhaps ten minutes and the doc was in there for about five minutes doing the embroidery. Including the wallet biopsy, I got a total of about 20 minutes of attention. But I did get to keep the tweezers and scissors as a souvenir.

So the question is: How much did your last E.R. visit cost? Shop wounds only; no bypass or organ transplant bills allowed.

Those of you who have yet to enjoy a bleeding shop wound can award points in a totally arbitrary manner depending on the amount of the bill, the severity of the injury, and the creative writing skills of the victim. I'd like to give the winner a coupon for ten free sutures at a local E.R., but we'll have to settle for bragging rights.

I simply would not know.

All of my medical stuff is provided free of charge.

I have the best of care, Public and Private Hospitals and medical professionals.

I pay no fees for any Ambulance, hospital or Day Theatre or any related tests or procedures.

I get paid about US$0.30 per Kilometer (say US$0.45 per mile) for driving my own car to and from any appointment or trip to or from Hospital - ER included. I get paid meal and/or accommodation allowance depending on the distance and timed - same applies to my wife as my "carer" for those purposes. Taxi/cab or ambulance for medical purposes for me are free as well - my wife is not charged (for).

I have the best of Specialist care.

I am a Veteran and I have an Australian Department of Veterans Affairs "Gold Card".

Suffice to say that here have been occasions where I've needed it an appreciated it.

http://www.dva.gov.au/service_providers/treatment_cards/Gold_card/Pages/gold.aspx

http://www.dva.gov.au/service_providers/treatment_cards/Gold_card/Pages/gold.aspx

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=dva+gold+card&meta=&aq=1&oq=dva

As I am over 70, it is not "means tested".

ALL providers jump at a "Gold Card" as payment is guaranteed and is automatically/electronically billed/charged for at a contract rate with DVA as soon as I have signed it off before I leave the treatment providers premises. The Provider is paid within days - every time.

I can ring/phone or walk into pretty well all Providers here, show my card, they take/check my details and that's the last of it until I "sign off".

My wife pays a quite reasonable monthly (auto-deducted/EFT) fee for "Private" Hospital cover and has to pay a very reasonable fee/charge for her "share" if she needs to go into Hospital where she can shoose her own Doctor/s. It has been along time since she has had any ER services, but I am told by others in similar circumstances who have had ER treatment for a wide range of services that the service is excellent and the fees and charges very reasonable.

So, in short, I am really not in a position to answer the OP's question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_department

I wouldn't want "settle on bragging rights" as that's just how it is here with my wife and I.

I am a Veteran, she is not and we are both over 70.

We both see our GP (Medical General Practitioner - ie Doctor) every two weeks and neither of us is charged anything as I have my Gold Card and my wife is "Bulk Billed" too.

Prescriptions at any Pharmacy are about US$5 per prescription item up to about a total of (I forget) until we get to a total amount (usually about August each year) after which pharmaceutical prescriptions are free until 31 December each year and it re-starts on 01 January each year).

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/services/scripts/pbs.jsp#N10045

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/services/scripts/pbs.jsp

We never have to worry about costs and payment nor the problems associated with "inability to pay".

I guess its fair to say that we get treated pretty well - ER and all.

John Stevenson
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
Last visit was to the eye hospital to get a metal splinter out my eye.
One and a half hours door to door, 1/2 hour in the ER.

No charge.

Small son has been diabetic since he was 9, he's now 34 and has never paid one penny for any treatment, insulin, or test equipment.
In fact for 5 years he got a free adventure camp holiday for two weeks per year.

No charge.

gregl
01-12-2010, 05:32 PM
Jim:

I'll give you three points for the 840# I-beam and two more points for posting the picture, but you still get deducted for the low co-pay. You now have the lead with 6 points.

tyrone shewlaces
01-12-2010, 05:33 PM
otherwise cut your costs and keep your fingers crossed, works for some people fine. But don't complain an ER visit costs you $$$$ and then fail to mention your monthly premiums are $75 - 150 per month.
I know, you guys don't have insurance premiums.
You have taxes.
I have choice.
Gary

Always amazes me when people think the US for-profit system is a good idea. You're wrong. I no longer have a choice. Now it's mandatory. Now I am required by law to slip at least 20% of a health insurance premium straight into a health insurance exec's pocket. After this year, my choice in the matter has been removed, and that goes for every man, woman and child in the country. I don't imagine that it would apply to non-citizens though. Yea, thanks a lot Congress. The justification that everybody needs to be in the pool to reduce costs would be laughable if it wasn't such a sad affair. Believe me or don't, but nothing in this world short of Armageddon itself will 1) reduce the charges the US health-for-profit racket levies on anyone except members of congress, and 2) improve the quality of care folks receive when they are caught in the web of the US health-for-profit racket. It's a profit behemoth and it's just waay too sweet a deal for the big money managers of it to give up. I wouldn't mind either government-run health care OR privately run health care if in either of them I got what I paid for. However, currently they want what would be 1/4 of my income for premiums and their main goal is to pay as close to zero of that back as they are allowed to get by with. Oh yea - that's just a great idea.

The real problem here never gets addressed. In my world, if someone pays me for something, whether it be wages for my time or payment for a good or service I provide, I can't just arbitrarily pull an astronomical number out of my ear and take it to the bank, then maybe give nothing in return anyway. It is routine to be charged about $300 or so for about 5 or 10 minutes of attention from a medical person. The reasons why they charge that much do not matter, the fact remains that there is nothing on this earth worth that kind of money ($3500 per hour plus). I'm sorry that's just wrong. These are still just fallible humans like you & me giving you this attention. If they'd simply charge a fair rate for what they provide and be rewarded better for better care rather than rewarded better for slipping a maximum volume of customers through, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I figure a guy can be pretty wealthy bringing in $200 or so per hour. If they charged that amount for medical care, then the costs would be something you could usually afford to pay out of your pocket. If the whole health-for-profit racket hadn't been conspiring to rip people off for so long, and set up a system that's so strong and works against patients so efficiently, then we would be so much better off.
This isn't what I believe, it's a cold, hard fact. Why do people defend the status quo? It's such an obscene greed fest. How can people be so dense as to take this spoon fed fairytale as reasonable I'll never understand.

Well, you can guess from the above that I have a story to tell and get into the OP's contest, but I've already taken too much space ranting. Sorry.
I will just say that the story ends with somebody saying "just bend over and take it".
Actually "ends" isn't the right word as the phrase still seems to keep repeating in an endless loop.

MotorradMike
01-12-2010, 05:42 PM
It was free.

But the prescription cost me 2$.

I have no idea how much of my taxes goes towards this but I truly believe universal health coverage is a good idea.


Mike

MrSleepy
01-12-2010, 05:45 PM
My last trip to the ER cost £0.00 for the treatment for a slipped disc ... :)
but in our area of the UK they charge for the ambulance.. £75.00:(

Rob


Im not unhappy though..two years later I was treated for cancer...1 month in hospital...4 visits to the operating theatre 3 skin grafts and all the rehab...£0.00

wagnerite
01-12-2010, 05:45 PM
Wagnerite: Sounds like a fun day but you didnít say if they had to cut off your boot or not. That would have added five points to your score: 5 points.
............
So far, Wagnerite is the leader with 5 points.

boot? what boot? i was wearing sandals. 200lb vs. barefoot guess who the moron is. I wear steel toes now.

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 06:03 PM
Did I tell you about the time back on the farm when I had my accident?

We have one of those old barns with a loft and a beam sticking out with a pulley and rope etc. Someone had left a barrel filled with old horse shoes on the top floor and it was my job to get it down. So I tied the rope to the barrel............................................ .........:D

Oldbrock
01-12-2010, 06:08 PM
Just don't move to the US unless you plan on staying healthy ( The best laid plans ..................) Peter

Peter.
01-12-2010, 06:16 PM
My last trip to the ER cost £0.00 for the treatment for a slipped disc ... :)
but in our area of the UK they charge for the ambulance.. £75.00:(

Rob


Im not unhappy though..two years later I was treated for cancer...1 month in hospital...4 visits to the operating theatre 3 skin grafts and all the rehab...£0.00

Only time I've heard of being charged for an ambulance is if it's RTA-related. Are you saying that all ambulance journeys are charged up your way?

gregl
01-12-2010, 06:27 PM
boot? what boot? i was wearing sandals. 200lb vs. barefoot guess who the moron is. I wear steel toes now.


OK, Wagnerite, two more points for being a moron. That puts you in the lead with 7 points.

oldtiffie
01-12-2010, 06:28 PM
So.

It seems that despite the plethora of cheap tools in the US (compared to other countries) that while the US actual coat of setting up or improving a shop may be comparatively low or "cheaper", the potential costs could be enormous and could "break" you if you have a shop - or any other - caused "medical" or "ER "event.

I am feeling a lot more secure right here in OZ - the more so as I get older.

gregl
01-12-2010, 06:29 PM
Did I tell you about the time back on the farm when I had my accident?

We have one of those old barns with a loft and a beam sticking out with a pulley and rope etc. Someone had left a barrel filled with old horse shoes on the top floor and it was my job to get it down. So I tied the rope to the barrel............................................ .........:D


So did you hit the beam on the way up?

wierdscience
01-12-2010, 06:33 PM
8 stitches on middle finger right hand,about 20 minutes and $450.FINALLY seeing my blood stop spilling on the ground-Priceless!:)

gregl
01-12-2010, 06:33 PM
OK, guys, I'm the OP so I get to make the rules. No debates about the merits of various health care systems. This is about who had the most exciting trip to the ER.

So far, Wagnerite is in the lead for being a moron and wearing sandals while welding on a steel bench frame. Jim S. is close with an 840# beam but the moron factor puts W. ahead.

MrSleepy
01-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Only time I've heard of being charged for an ambulance is if it's RTA-related. Are you saying that all ambulance journeys are charged up your way?

this was 9 yrs ago...while we were under Humberside...they charged for non life threatning trips for a few years...I've still got the bill somewhere as I wrote it down as a buisness expense against tax...

Now that we are North Lincs they dont charge except for rta's.

Rob

ammcoman2
01-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Last July I broke my ankle while descending a mountain (Old Man Coniston) in the UK. After the visit to the Emergency (Casualty?) I asked how much. "Nothing" was the reply. "Even for the crutches" (really nice ones) - nope.

A mandated follow up visit was made a week later in another location - still zero. Apparently as long as a visitor does not have to be admitted to the hospital, there is no charge.

Two follow up visits on my return to Canada to the local Hospital and I still didn't pay anything.

Geoff

vpt
01-12-2010, 06:41 PM
I don't go to the ER unless I am dieing. I have found a combination of paper towel and electrical tape can pretty much patch up anything short of a dismemberment.

oldtiffie
01-12-2010, 06:43 PM
When I saw the title of the thread: "Price of an E.R. visit.... " I thought we were being "visited" by "Her Maj" (Elizabeth R) again.

She is "very OK" here but her brood isn't.

The cost of those visits can send the country to the ER - let alone HSM-ers in their shop.

gnm109
01-12-2010, 07:32 PM
The thread on the $700 bill for a simple furnace fan replacement caused me to think about the bill for my latest E.R. visit. I stabbed myself in the back of my hand in the fleshy part between the thumb and first finger with a wood chisel which, of course, I had just sharpened. The cut was only about 3/4 inch long and perhaps 1/4 deep -- just past the limit of the band-aids in my bathroom drawer. No pain, just steady bleeding.

So my wife drove me to the local E.R. and we were in and out in less than an hour (miracle of miracles) with a few stitches under an economy-size adhesive bandage. Frankly, if I'd had some fresh Super Glue, I would have just patched it myself and hosed the blood drops from the sidewalk between the shop and the house so no one would have been any the wiser.

Anyway, as the bills trickled in, the total ended up just a few bucks short of $2000. I'll get stuck with about $400 of that, the rest going to the insurance company. The nurse that hosed out the cut took perhaps ten minutes and the doc was in there for about five minutes doing the embroidery. Including the wallet biopsy, I got a total of about 20 minutes of attention. But I did get to keep the tweezers and scissors as a souvenir.

So the question is: How much did your last E.R. visit cost? Shop wounds only; no bypass or organ transplant bills allowed.

Those of you who have yet to enjoy a bleeding shop wound can award points in a totally arbitrary manner depending on the amount of the bill, the severity of the injury, and the creative writing skills of the victim. I'd like to give the winner a coupon for ten free sutures at a local E.R., but we'll have to settle for bragging rights.


I'm with a medical group where E.R. visits cost $50. If I am admitted to the hospital at the time, there is no charge.

You were wise to go to the E.R. If you had not gone, your wound could have gotten infected. I presume that you were also given some antibiotics when they sewed you up. It sounds like you have the typical 80%/20% health plan. Under those circumstances, I'd probably sew it up myself and disinfect with Scotch Whiskey.

A $400 bill is no fun, but neither is an MRSA infection.

flutedchamber
01-12-2010, 07:37 PM
Take one tick bite, add six months time to incubate. Develop low grade then progressively higher fevers, and after two weeks a headache.

Doctor one: Urinary tract infection, gives script for drugs. $165, plus drug cost. Wait 5 days to improve..no improvement

Doctor two at the ER: Tests, X rays, blood tests, etc. $1145. Don't know what's wrong.

Family doctor (back from vacation FINALLY) Looks, listens, calls emergency room and tells me to get my ass there asap. Could be meningitis or delayed Lyme.

Hospital: Stay four days in ICU. Blood tests show a at least 2tick borne diseases, not Lyme. Start treatment, bad reaction to drug given..drive blood pressure thru the roof because they forgot to give me my medication that I was on. Damage heart, but cures problem. Total for 4 days in ICU..$400K (but they wrecked my heart free of charge).

Two weeks post hospital release I go to see family doc. He orders a Lme test and two weeks later it comes back positive. Treat outpatient for Lyme

lakeside53
01-12-2010, 08:04 PM
Yes.
Many of the posts on large out-of-pocket expenses are most likely from those with low cost "indemnity" plans and the like. There's a premium (pun intended) to be paid up front for "better" coverage, otherwise cut your costs and keep your fingers crossed, works for some people fine. But don't complain an ER visit costs you $$$$ and then fail to mention your monthly premiums are $75 - 150 per month.

I know, you guys don't have insurance premiums.

You have taxes.

I have choice.

Gary


$75-150 per month lolololol!:eek:

I pay my own insurance premiums.... (no employer). Nice plan.. but at 55 my rate went up to $1700 per month for both the wife and me... massively reduced the benefits, big deductable and no prescription plan and now it's "only" $800 per month... Oh.. but the drugs are $200. As my good friend in NZ said 'that's a rent payment...".

Sure I have a choice.. roll the dice, hope neither of us serously ill.. because if we do a lifetime of savings and assets are wiped out, or pay though the nose... Oh.. I'm supposed to get a colonoscopy this year ... that $1700 "discount rate" to the insurance companyy. I'll pay all of it... and so will the wife (also due this year)...

I've lived in NZ, the UK, several other countries, and now reside in the USA... Only here can I go bankrupt for medical... if I choose not to have insurance.

When I visit NZ, I take Amex medical insurance - the premium for a 1 month vist was $32. My parent visiting here - about $US300 each.. Hmmm..

The Artful Bodger
01-12-2010, 08:13 PM
I know, you guys don't have insurance premiums.

You have taxes.

I have choice.

Gary


Tax is optional? How does that work?

Ausserdog
01-12-2010, 08:24 PM
Not shop related, but last year got a UTI (urinary tract infection). Went to the doc to get antibiotics because I was getting massive hot flashes & then cold chills. Started feeling better within an hour. That night prostate swelled shut & couldn't pee - so trip to the ER. Did a CT scan & found out about my kidney stones too!

Had to skip our (planned for a year) vacation to the Caribbean, :mad: but not the trip to help my brother move house (2000 miles from my home). :rolleyes: After helping said brother move, ready to come home and get the first kidney stone attack. So, trip #2 to ER & second CT scan. Five days later end up back in the ER (trip # 3) because the pain was so bad. Finally passed the stone and made it home - a week late!

So, in less than six weeks I made three trips to the ER. Oh, and I passed the second kidney stone a week later while at work. THAT was fun. :eek:

Do I get honorable mention for the hard luck award?

gregl
01-12-2010, 09:15 PM
Sorry Tom. Kidney stones are no fun, but Flutedchamber gets the hard luck award. Not funny though because he ended up with heart damage from a missed diagnosis.

MTNGUN
01-12-2010, 09:19 PM
My health insurance is $96 a month, five years ago I had open heart surgery to replace a heart valve and also received a pacemaker, NO EXTRA CHARGES. Move to Canada Eh. Peter
Please, please, Canadians, invade the U.S. and "force" us to accept your health care system.

wagnerite
01-12-2010, 09:23 PM
I'm gonna double my lead:

September last year, one month after my "incident" I decided to go on a trip to missouri (from california). the reason for the trip is not important, basically, it was to surprise my wife (who was visiting family at missouri).

i took my motorcycle. this is a two day trip. first day is 1000 miles. second will be 700 miles. on my first day, 12 hours into the ride, i was in Utah. on interstate 70 just north of Moab...I FELL ASLEEP WHILE GOING 80MPH.

went into the center divider... bike flipped a few times, and i flipped a few times. 45 minutes wait for ambulance, 45 minute ride to Moab hospital.

i was wearing full lether gear, helmet, gloves, boots. (i wouldnt let them cut my leather).

another 2500$. plus towing my bike back to CA... total bill, including fixing my bike $6000.

i came out better, i have a slight limp, that will go away in a few more months. 80mph to 0mph in 2 or 3 seconds, no broken bone, couple of bruises and very sore for a week. now i have two sets of crutches.

there, that oughtta get me at least 10 points... 1pt for trying this stunt with motorcycle. 9 points for being a moron.

gregl
01-12-2010, 09:28 PM
Well, Wagnerite, we could establish a Moron award but they already have the Darwin Awards elsewhere on the net. And while you certainly deserve special recognition it wasn't a shop accident so it doesn't count for points. Sorry.

d kirby
01-12-2010, 09:30 PM
I have been involved in 2 life threatening accidents in my life, the first one was in the U.S., the last one was 2 miles from home, here in Canada. Total cost to me for both would be less than $100.00.

1993, dirttrack racing motorcycles in Indiana, was involved in a bad crash with 2 other riders. When they got to me I was not breathing and they had to jump start me to get me going again.Paramedics met my ambulance part way to the hospital because they were not sure the first aid crew could keep me alive. They had me on life support for a few days, lots of x-rays and MRI's later sent me home to Canada with damage to my back, serious head injury a right arm that did not work anymore and internal organs messed up. Lucky for me I had paid for insurance coverage at work so the huge bill in the U.S. was paid by them.
Back home here they have had to take nerves from my leg and graft them into my shoulder to get some use from my right arm. Many doctors, some specialists, more tests along with many many days of rehab. and therapy at no cost to me. To this day I still have to go to the Doctor once a month, still no charge.

Round 2 1999, some guy in a car decides he needs my lane too, hits my car head on. Spent 3 weeks in Intensive Care on life support, ruptured spleen, lacerated stomach, collapsed lungs and internal bleeding. One month spent under hospital care and for about 2 months at home a nurse came everyday to service the drain bag and change the various dressings I had. The total cost to me was the ambulance ride to the E.R which was less than $100.00

I was looked after by the Brain Injury Clinic as an out patient, so they came to my house twice a week for quite some time. No charge.
I have had so many x-rays I was afraid I might start glowing in the dark. N/C

I will not get into any arguments about the U. S system compared to the health system here at home, as they have both served me well. But I think here at home they should do as they do in the States with their bills. Everything is itemized and listed along with their costs in medical care and supplies, then maybe some people would stop going to the E. R. with minor problems.

Because of these two incidents I live on a disability pension and get to spend time in the shop when I am capable. Not as much fun anymore because I can't race but it has helped using the lathe and such to get some of my co-ordination back and it helps with my cognitive skills.
It seems like these last few years have been one looong trip to the E.R.
Thursday Jan./14 Doctors appointment No Charge

Thank goodness for health insurance or else my quality of life would be non exsistent
Dave

wagnerite
01-12-2010, 09:36 PM
bike is always stored in the shop, how's that?

MTNGUN
01-12-2010, 09:42 PM
Take one tick bite, add six months time to incubate. Develop low grade then progressively higher fevers, and after two weeks a headache.

Doctor one: Urinary tract infection, gives script for drugs. $165, plus drug cost. Wait 5 days to improve..no improvement

Doctor two at the ER: Tests, X rays, blood tests, etc. $1145. Don't know what's wrong.

Family doctor (back from vacation FINALLY) Looks, listens, calls emergency room and tells me to get my ass there asap. Could be meningitis or delayed Lyme.

Hospital: Stay four days in ICU. Blood tests show a at least 2tick borne diseases, not Lyme. Start treatment, bad reaction to drug given..drive blood pressure thru the roof because they forgot to give me my medication that I was on. Damage heart, but cures problem. Total for 4 days in ICU..$400K (but they wrecked my heart free of charge).

Two weeks post hospital release I go to see family doc. He orders a Lyme test and two weeks later it comes back positive. Treat outpatient for Lyme
Lyme's kicks your arse.

Come to think of it, last time I went to doctor was for Lyme's. Earth shattering headache, fever, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, didn't have the strength to get out of bed. I figured I had Lyme's but was reluctant to seek treatment because I had no insurance. My daughter became alarmed and called my mom to drag me to one of those 24/7 clinics. I showed the doc the bite, he agreed it looked like Lymes, and prescribed an antibiotic. $100 and 24 hours later I was back on my feet. Because we caught it early, it responded to treatment for not a lot of money.

As for the "at least I have a choice" argument, man, you can keep your choices. When you are poor and have no insurance, "socialized" health care sounds pretty darned good.

How many of our Canadian HSM'ers would trade their "rationed" health care, with all it's imperfections, for the U.S. system, where self employed and unemployed have no health insurance and a hospital stay is likely to result in bankruptcy ?

dp
01-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Please, please, Canadians, invade the U.S. and "force" us to accept your health care system.

There's no problem with our health care but there is a problem paying for it. So far it's not an entitlement here.

lakeside53
01-12-2010, 10:02 PM
There's no problem with our health care but there is a problem paying for it. So far it's not an entitlement here.


Unless you can make it to the magic 65 years old... then you are dumped by the Insurance company you paid a fortune to, and get medicare...:mad:

flutedchamber
01-12-2010, 10:05 PM
Sorry Tom. Kidney stones are no fun, but Flutedchamber gets the hard luck award. Not funny though because he ended up with heart damage from a missed diagnosis.

Thanks for the thought, but I would much rather not have even been in the running;)

flutedchamber
01-12-2010, 10:08 PM
Lyme's kicks your arse.

Come to think of it, last time I went to doctor was for Lyme's. Earth shattering headache, fever, couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, didn't have the strength to get out of bed. I figured I had Lyme's but was reluctant to seek treatment because I had no insurance. My daughter became alarmed and called my mom to drag me to one of those 24/7 clinics. I showed the doc the bite, he agreed it looked like Lymes, and prescribed an antibiotic. $100 and 24 hours later I was back on my feet. Because we caught it early, it responded to treatment for not a lot of money.

As for the "at least I have a choice" argument, man, you can keep your choices. When you are poor and have no insurance, "socialized" health care sounds pretty darned good.

How many of our Canadian HSM'ers would trade their "rationed" health care, with all it's imperfections, for the U.S. system, where self employed and unemployed have no health insurance and a hospital stay is likely to result in bankruptcy ?

I have had Lyme 4 times total. NEVER have I had a bullseye rash, nor have I ever been bitten by what is considered a 'Lyme carrying tick'. I just think the blood sucking bastards love me. It seems that each time I am bitten, my symptoms differ. Maybe it's the age at being bitten, or just how the body builds up an immunity as it goes??

dp
01-12-2010, 10:20 PM
Unless you can make it to the magic 65 years old... then you are dumped by the Insurance company you paid a fortune to, and get medicare...:mad:

I'll know next year.

dp

doctor demo
01-12-2010, 11:06 PM
I'll know next year.

dp
Dennis, either I have names and faces mixed up or You don't look Your age.

Steve

dp
01-12-2010, 11:24 PM
Dennis, either I have names and faces mixed up or You don't look Your age.

Steve

I'm in picture #3 holding a photo they took when I turned 50:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002713317_boomers31m.html

saltmine
01-12-2010, 11:50 PM
I guess it would be my bout with the flu, several years ago.
My boss said, "You don't look so good....(of course, I had the flu), maybe you better let the ER doctor "check you out". Under protest, I went to the ER, and the doctor claimed I had an "erratic heartbeat". Next thing I knew, I had all manner of tubes and probes stuck into and on me, lying in a hospital bed (ICU) next to a bank of recording instruments that would do NASA proud. Every four hours the Vampire...Uh, I mean nurse would come in, wake me up, and draw about a pint of blood. This went on for four days. Eventually, the ER doctor decided I needed to go see a specialist. I wound up in the office of a guy who didn't speak English...but his sheepskin said he was a Cardiologist.
After a battery of tests, he stuck me on a treadmill, and made me run, full bore, for what seemed like two hours.(bear in mind, I still was suffering from the flu). He came to the conclusion that I had high blood pressure caused by clogged arteries, and made arrangements for me to fly to Phoenix, to the Heart Institute for more tests.
What I didn't know was when I boarded the Beech 1900 with 24 other passengers, I was the only one returning. Go figure.
At the Heart Institute they administered an angiogram (sp) where they run a small tube up your artery and inject a fluid that's visible to X-rays, into the heart. I'm lying there on the table and the doctor exclaims "Oh my God!" I almost had a real heart attack....you don't want to hear something like that while you're being X-rayed with a tube shoved up through half of your body.

"I guess we made a mistake."...says he.

"You have an enlarged heart, not clogged arteries." (A byproduct of being athletic in my youth.)

I was unceremoniously hustled out, driven to the airport, and put on a mostly empty Beech 1900 and flown back to my home. (no, they wouldn't let me drive)
The next week, (after getting over the flu) I took the treadmill test again, and passed with flying colors.....

Insurance paid 80% of the bill (even though they made a mistake) my part turned out to be $2600, which I paid off in payments as small as I could manage, for the next eight years.

gzig5
01-12-2010, 11:51 PM
Ah yes, you mean I pay with my taxes? How does my tax rate compare with yours eh?:)

I don't know, how does it compare? How much do you pay for a gallon of gas or pound of good beef? I've lived in Europe and have some insight to what the cost of living is there and how they acheive all these "free" programs. The money has to come from somewhere and if it isn't in your taxes, it is in fees and other VAT's to subsidize them. It's a complicated problem and I don't think that handing over full control to the government is in my best interest.

tdkkart
01-13-2010, 12:33 AM
No idea what an emergency room visit will cost you, but I am a volunteer driver for our local ambulance service. If we leave the shop, drive across the street to pick you up and then delivery you 18 miles to the ER it's gonna cost a minimum of $1200.
If we pick up the microphone and say, "send the chopper", it's gonna cost you an additional $11,000, and you might get to the ER 3 minutes sooner with the exact same care that you would have gotten in the ground ambulance.

I pay $2500/yr on a group insurance plan for myself, my wife and daughter. The 3 of us together have not used $2500 worth of medical services since our daughter was born in 1988. I'd have been better off putting the money in an annuity. If neither my wife nor I have cashed it in for medical bills before we die our daughter would have a nice fat inheritance.

Just a guess, but if we end up with fully nationalized health care, it's not gonna be anywhere close to $96/month.

doctor demo
01-13-2010, 01:25 AM
I'm in picture #3 holding a photo they took when I turned 50:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002713317_boomers31m.html
I did have things mixed up, but ya still don't look Your age (or is that act?):)
Do You have a group shot from the class in Newport?

Steve

dp
01-13-2010, 01:29 AM
I did have things mixed up, but ya still don't look Your age (or is that act?):)
Do You have a group shot from the class in Newport?

Steve

I took several shots of everyone and everything but I'm not in any of them. I haven't seen the group shot taken outside.

lakeside53
01-13-2010, 01:38 AM
I'm in it :D

doctor demo
01-13-2010, 01:42 AM
I'm in it :D
I've probably been photoshopped :eek: don't know how many I'm in or not.

Steve

dp
01-13-2010, 01:57 AM
All my pix are here: http://thevirtualbarandgrill.com/machinery/scraping/

Need to migrate them over to my blog.

The Artful Bodger
01-13-2010, 02:51 AM
I don't know, how does it compare? How much do you pay for a gallon of gas or pound of good beef?

We pay too much for gas, but who does not? I do not think we can buy good beef here as it is all exported, the beef that is kept for the domestic market is the very good and excellent grades. I know you likely pay more for your beef than you think. How much do the US taxpayers pay to enrichen farmers via subsidies? I think there is billions in corn subsidies alone which I assume reflects in lower beef prices.



I've lived in Europe and have some insight to what the cost of living is there and how they acheive all these "free" programs. The money has to come from somewhere and if it isn't in your taxes, it is in fees and other VAT's to subsidize them. Just like those taxes you pay to subsidise your producers.


It's a complicated problem and I don't think that handing over full control to the government is in my best interest. You get to elect your government so why would you prefer your interests to be in the hands of big business instead?

Jack Burns
01-13-2010, 04:51 AM
The primary reason emergency room fees are so high these days is that somewhere between 20 -- 25 million illegal alien freeloaders use them as their primary care providers for everything from the sniffles to dropping their anchor babes to gateways for organ transplants to often extremely expensive end-of-life care, all on the public dime. Since most of these people pay nothing, and hospitals are legally proscribed from turning them away, everybody else using those facilities must pay a lot more or hospitals simply close them or go bankrupt as some 87 along the Mexican border have already done in recent years.

Rustybolt
01-13-2010, 08:09 AM
I finally got fed up with the pain in my right shoulder and called the doctors office. I had an appointment for the next tuesday. One hour later I had a prescription for Celebrex and four x rays. My cost? A 20 dollar copay.
An MRI here cost about $4000. With insurance my copay is $50. There are 4 MRI machines within 10 minutes of where I live. No waiting.
If it weren't for trial lawyers and freeloaders the costs go way-way down.

JCHannum
01-13-2010, 08:46 AM
If it weren't for trial lawyers and freeloaders the costs go way-way down.

Which are two problems not addressed in either version of Obamacare, and they won't be. Joe Wilson might not have made his statement at the "proper" time, but he was and is 100% correct.

To look at things from a slightly different angle, how many of you know how much you pay for your children's education? If they go to a public school (US terminology for government funded) the cost per student per year is on the order of $10,000, probably higher in most areas. This is not free anymore than healthcare will be. We all pay for it somehow, it all comes from taxes, primarily property taxes.

Yet for all of that money, we have high school graduates who cannot make change for a dollar in their head. Why does anyone think that turning the medical system of the country to the government is going to produce any better results.

Dawai
01-13-2010, 09:04 AM
Yeah.. America has the "best damn healthcare" people in the world I think.. but......

Milking the cow.. I recently got "sent" for some tests for passing blood. THE initial consultation was about ten minutes.. insurance bill was over $350.. I am referred to a anesteseologist who will have a "3-4" hour consultation before he will put me under.. then onto the "butt cam" session where it is in the hospital where I get full charges to the insurance company.

To manipulate me to make me more receptive to this procedure they used the "scary" C word a time or two..

USE the "heart" word to manipulate even more tests, how dare you go with chest pains and complain about them.. $10, grand in tests before you turn around..

With milking like this, some people hit their "max" value in insurance payout..

Hey, my vet does the same thing, as does the local mechanic, as does... greed and grabbing all they can from the "world" as it passes by.. I guess I missed out on that gene.. I got the "sucker" gene instead.

Your Old Dog
01-13-2010, 10:02 AM
Now do you americans understand why health care is.. a good idea?

No. I live near a border town, Buffalo, NY and there is no shortage of Ontario license plates in the hospital and doctor office parking lots. They're folks who can't wait for their Canadian government operating schedule. Or, folks who don't want their cancer to progress more before they are allowed to have more test done.

I haven't tripped over one dead body on Main Street USA due to "no health insurance". Sick people here do get seen. Even in Canada, not all get cured of their ailments.

Before they will get me to go along with it they'll have to throw in car insurance and home owner insurance along along with the health care INSURANCE. Socialize all my bills for me.

Say your 21 years old, healthy as an Ox and got the world by the arse. Why should it be mandatory for you to buy a health insurance policy just so you can bulk up the plan that I'm in? Maybe you'd like to invest that money, start a company of your own in your pursuit of happiness.

Black_Moons
01-13-2010, 10:34 AM
I love how people blame freeloaders on thier medical costs being 15x fold what it should be.

You really have 15 times more freeloaders then paying 'customers' at the hospital? Do you really just believe everything the media tells you without stoping to think about it for a second? Maybe just.. check the math?

dp
01-13-2010, 10:48 AM
USE the "heart" word to manipulate even more tests, how dare you go with chest pains and complain about them.. $10, grand in tests before you turn around..

Many of those tests are to protect them from tort lawyers and less about your health. Without tort reform those practices will have to continue. And that brings me to one of my favorite conspiracies. The government has no vested interest in enacting tort reform because it currently serves them well. One of the major drivers in the government's case to take over financing health care is the high cost of it. Mind you they've made no overtures as to how they're going to control those costs, only that the poor are priced out of health care so everyone needs a single payer plan (notice too there are no overtures of improving health care, only making it available to all - put on your critical thinking cap to see where that leads).

So don't expect tort reform any time soon. Given the size of the law industry lobby I wouldn't expect to see it after health care payment industry is owned by the government. The government has already suggested openly the only cost controlling they're planning on is service reduction.

dp
01-13-2010, 10:52 AM
Say your 21 years old, healthy as an Ox and got the world by the arse. Why should it be mandatory for you to buy a health insurance policy just so you can bulk up the plan that I'm in? Maybe you'd like to invest that money, start a company of your own in your pursuit of happiness.

An old German philosopher used to say: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

And he has been heard.

wierdscience
01-13-2010, 11:55 AM
To look at things from a slightly different angle, how many of you know how much you pay for your children's education? If they go to a public school (US terminology for government funded) the cost per student per year is on the order of $10,000, probably higher in most areas. This is not free anymore than healthcare will be. We all pay for it somehow, it all comes from taxes, primarily property taxes.

Yet for all of that money, we have high school graduates who cannot make change for a dollar in their head. Why does anyone think that turning the medical system of the country to the government is going to produce any better results.

Right on,look at what we get for OUR money,and the answer we get when asked why is........."we need more money"

Thomas Sowell quote-"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it."

Dawai
01-13-2010, 11:55 AM
MY conspiracy theory mind tells me all this is to manipulate people into "forced no fault" insurance coverage for healthcare and not a thing to "help" the poor people.

My opinion of the English and European others, well.. they got you disarmed, they can do anything they want to you, tax, healthcare, displace you for the common good of others.

BAAAA... sheep.. get in a huddle.. I'm on the other side of "that age hill" now.. going down hill fast.. so.. It ain't gonna be my worry for long. Let the stupid young people learn the lessons that this country was founded on in the beginning.. (I don't have much faith in the younger generation, including my kids)

I USE LIQUID SKIN when I can to seal minor body leaks.. watch the area, any discoloration of skin or extreme numbness, get to a doctor.

wierdscience
01-13-2010, 12:11 PM
I love how people blame freeloaders on thier medical costs being 15x fold what it should be.

You really have 15 times more freeloaders then paying 'customers' at the hospital? Do you really just believe everything the media tells you without stoping to think about it for a second? Maybe just.. check the math?

Here it's called the Hill-Burton act.It states that all hospital facilities that have recieved federal money for equipment or infrastructure must provide care free of charge regardless of the patient's ability to pay for the life of the facility.
The illegals know this and take advantage of it all the way.It's also not just illegals.My bother is an ER nurse in one such facility.People come in with scratches,head colds snotty noses etc all of which could be handled by the FREE clinic the hospital provides FREE OF CHARGE from 8:00 am to 8:00 pm,but no it's just too much trouble to get there within 12 hours,they wait and got to the ER which alsoincludes a FREE to them ambulance ride which everyone else is paying for.

If they get turned away from a Hill Burton ER facility for a runny nose it's not just a potential Tort suit it's also a Federal civil rights lawsuit.

We also have two very large,very violent minority groups here that send shot and stabbed people to the ER nightly for emergency surgery all FREE to them as the cost is passed onto all of us.

So yes,picking up the tab for 12-20 million illegal aliens and 5-6 million stupid native born people is expensive.Add to that both government run healthcare programs we have now which short pay doctors and hospitals and it causes a real nightmare.

vikingsword
01-13-2010, 01:34 PM
My second to last visit to the ER( in keeping with the theme of this thread) was pure stupidity and neglegence on my part that nearly cost me my life. Butt cold day outside and the heating fuel just ran out for my small Toro stove, no big deal, I had alot of forging to do(it's a blacksmith/machine/customknife shop), got started forging and the wind started blowing sideways out side, so I close the door so it doesn't lift the roof off and I get back to forging, oh, did I mention that both my forges are Propane? I was forging out some damascus billets that day, so the double burner forge was the one fired up for forgewelding and after a couple hours I start feelin a little light headed, I figured It was cause It was almost lunch time( low blood sugar) and slight dehydration from the heat and sweating(gets over a hundred in the shop after the forge has been on awhile). I take a break for lunch and rest cause my head feels a little off but I eventually get back to the shop to finish up the forge work, and then onto the mill to mill out a guard for another knife, when I hear a noise I don't regognize but finally locate, it's this little black thing that starts talking to me with a voice I don't recognize, so I throw it across the room and it stops, a short time later this hot girl shows up and takes my hand and leads me to a car that takes me to an ER room where they determine that no stroke has occured, but my blood shows over 40% carbon monoxide saturation, so I spend the next 5 hours in this odd looking room, taking in pure oxygen till It's down to about 12%, and everybody starts breathing a little easier. I guess the nurses heard abot how really beautiful they were( more than once) and the doc got 40 insights into my soul while I was succombed. My cost was a $500 deductible and a hell of a lot of post ER embarrasment.I never did find out the total cost. WES

Hemihead2
01-13-2010, 01:59 PM
My last E.R. visit (2003) was also due to stupidity. I thought that when you disengage the drive belt for the blades on a riding mower, it would cause the blades to stop turning. Not so. I now have 9 3/4 fingers (lost the tip of the index finger on my right hand) and the E.R. plus overnight in the hospital was around $12K of which I owed about $1200 after insurance.

saltmine
01-13-2010, 02:22 PM
Illegal aliens and dopers eat up quite a bit of our healthcare dollars. At least in the area where I live. My landlady happens to work for the DES (Department of Economic Security= welfare office) and she has mentioned on many occasions that there's a steady parade of illegals coming in the door, getting aid, food, money, and medical care. They don't pay a dime for it, in fact, they're not even asked for ID. She says that if the DES required a Social Security card and ID, the traffic through her office would be cut by 60%. Dopers are another taxpayer burden. They take all manner of horrible drugs, ruining their health, and.....naturally, they come stumbling into the ER for the finest medical care the US has to offer. Most are never even asked to fill out an admittance form, because of their "ability to pay". They are seldom ever seen after a visit or two....unless there's a chance of getting prescription drugs...then they're harder to get rid of than a stray cat.

I worked all my life, and paid into the system, forever. Unfortunately, I rarely got sick or injured. Now that I'm retired, the insurance industry wants most of my retirement check to pay for health insurance...wtf? Well, like most retired people, I can't afford medcal insurance. So, when I walk into the ER with my non-doper, non-illegal alien persona, the healthcare people think they got a live one, and it's "no holds barred". Instead of asking me for my blood type, they ask for my credit card number....then my Social Security number....then they get around to asking "What's wrong?"

Yeah, Jack....Illegal aliens and dopers do run the cost of healthcare up for the rest of us. But, ass-munch lawyers don't help the situation,either.

Farbmeister
01-13-2010, 02:26 PM
All the socialized medical lovers always say free this and free that but as already pointed out that the taxes in those 'free medical care' countries are nuts. 20%+ VAT on every purchase != free medical care.

My story is a put a half inch auger drill bit through my middle finger. ER, stitches etc came out to about $800 and I charged it (50% up front, then $100 a month till paid off). The follow up at the doctor was $80, and they had no way to accept cash. they *had* to bill me to get me into the computer.

Get the government out of medicine and costs WILL come down, service will go up. No one in the USA is being denied treatment.. any more than in the socialized medicine countries.

At some point, the bean counter will say you are not worth the expense... no matter where you live.

gregl
01-13-2010, 02:52 PM
My thread......... my thread......

I've lost control of my thread.......

A i e e e e e e e e e ! ! !

Your Old Dog
01-13-2010, 03:30 PM
I love how people blame freeloaders on thier medical costs being 15x fold what it should be.

You really have 15 times more freeloaders then paying 'customers' at the hospital? Do you really just believe everything the media tells you without stoping to think about it for a second? Maybe just.. check the math?

I got this today in an email today. Thought it explains precisely how I feel these days. It did not come from Wikipedia !


" "I'm Tired" by Robert A. Hall

I'll be 63 soon. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce,
and a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day,
I've worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I still
put in 50-hour weeks, and haven't called in sick in seven or eight years. I
make a good salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked
to get where I am. Given the economy, there's no retirement in sight, and
I'm tired. Very tired..

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth around" to people
who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will
take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too
lazy or stupid to earn it.

I'm tired of being told that I have to pay more taxes to "keep people in
their homes." Sure, if they lost their jobs or got sick, I'm willing to
help. But if they bought McMansions at three times the price of our
paid-off, $250,000 condo, on one-third of my salary, then let the left-wing
Congress-critters who passed Fannie and Freddie and the Community
Reinvestment Act that created the bubble help them with their own money.

I'm tired of being told how bad America is by left-wing millionaires like
Michael Moore, George Soros, and Hollywood entertainers who live in luxury
because of the opportunities America offers. In thirty years, if they get
their way, the United States will have the economy of Zimbabwe , the freedom
of the press of China , the crime and violence of Mexico , the tolerance for
Christian people of Iran , and the freedom of speech of Venezuela . Won't
multiculturalism be beautiful?

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day
I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and
daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight
offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't
"believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning
teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the
genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and
Sharia law tells them to.

I believe "a man should be judged by the content of his character, not by
the color of his skin." I'm tired of being told that "race doesn't matter"
in the post-racial world of Obama, when it's all that matters in affirmative
action jobs, lower college admission and graduation standards for minorities
(harming them the most), government contract set-asides, tolerance for the
ghetto culture of violence and fatherless children that hurts minorities
more than anyone, and in the appointment of US Senators from Illinois.

I think it's very cool that we have a black president and that a black
child is doing her homework at the desk where Lincoln wrote the Emancipation
Proclamation. I just wish the black president was Condi Rice, or someone who
believes more in freedom and the individual and less arrogantly of an
all-knowing government.

I'm tired of a news media that thinks Bush's fundraising and inaugural
expenses were obscene, but that think Obama's, at triple the cost, were
wonderful; that thinks Bush exercising daily was a waste of presidential
time, but Obama exercising is a great example for the public to control
weight and stress; that picked over every line of Bush's military records,
but never demanded that Kerry release his; that slammed Palin, with two
years as governor, for being too inexperienced for VP, but touted Obama with
three years as senator as potentially the best president ever. Wonder why
people are dropping their subscriptions or switching to Fox News? Get a
clue. I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but the media and Kerry drove me to
his camp in 2004.

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must
let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and madrassa Islamic
schools to preach hate in America , while no American group is allowed to
fund a church, synagogue, or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love
and tolerance.

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global
warming, which no one is allowed to debate. My wife and I live in a
two-bedroom apartment and carpool together five miles to our jobs. We also
own a three-bedroom condo where our daughter and granddaughter live. Our
carbon footprint is about 5% of Al Gore's, and if you're greener than Gore,
you're green enough.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help
support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ
rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses
while they tried to fight it off? I don't think gay people choose to be gay,
but I damn sure think druggies chose to take drugs. And I'm tired of
harassment from cool people treating me like a freak when I tell them I
never tried marijuana.

I'm tired of illegal aliens being called "undocumented workers," especially
the ones who aren't working, but are living on welfare or crime. What's
next? Calling drug dealers, "Undocumented Pharmacists"? And, no, I'm not
against Hispanics. Most of them are Catholic, and it's been a few hundred
years since Catholics wanted to kill me for my religion. I'm willing to
fast track for citizenship any Hispanic person, who can speak English,
doesn't have a criminal record and who is self-supporting without family on
welfare, or who serves honorably for three years in our military....Those
are the citizens we need.

I'm tired of latte liberals and journalists, who would never wear the
uniform of the Republic themselves, or let their entitlement-handicapped
kids near a recruiting station, trashing our military. They and their kids
can sit at home, never having to make split-second decisions under life and
death circumstances, and bad mouth better people than themselves. Do bad
things happen in war? You bet. Do our troops some times misbehave? Sure.
Does this compare with the atrocities that were the policy of our enemies
for the last fifty years and still are? Not even close. So here's the deal.
I'll let myself be subjected to all the humiliation and abuse that was
heaped on terrorists at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo, and the critics can let
themselves be subject to captivity by the Muslims who tortured and beheaded
Daniel Pearl in Pakistan, or the Muslims who tortured and murdered Marine
Lt. Col. William Higgins in Lebanon, or the Muslims who ran the
blood-spattered Al Qaeda torture rooms our troops found in Iraq, or the
Muslims who cut off the heads of schoolgirls in Indonesia, because the girls
were Christian. Then we'll compare notes. British and American soldiers are
the only troops in history that civilians came to for help and handouts,
instead of hiding from in fear.

I'm tired of people telling me that their party has a corner on virtue and
the other party has a corner on corruption. Read the papers; bums are
bipartisan. And I'm tired of people telling me we need bipartisanship. I
live in Illinois , where the "Illinois Combine" of Democrats has worked to
loot the public for years. Not to mention the tax cheats in Obama's cabinet
as well.

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers, and politicians of both
parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful
mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught.
I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

Speaking of poor, I'm tired of hearing people with air-conditioned homes,
color TVs and two cars called poor. The majority of Americans didn't have
that in 1970, but we didn't know we were "poor." The poverty pimps have to
keep changing the definition of poor to keep the dollars flowing.

I'm real tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and
actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination,
or big-whatever for their problems.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not
going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for
my granddaughter.


Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the
Massachusetts State Senate."

*************************

GregL, did you really think a thread like this would stay the course you set? :D When pigs fly!

saltmine
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
Boy....Nothing like "hitting the nail on the head"

If Hall decides to run for President, I'll vote for him.

Of course, after viewing "current events"...It's "Here we go again!"

Massive earthquake hits Hati. Hundreds left homeless, hundreds die.

Yeah, we all heard that song before.

Here's a country(??) that has little or no commercial value to the US, the whole island is one big s**thole, third world, POS. The residents are constantly trying to make it to the mainland...and become another source of illegal immigration.
The people don't want to join the United States of America. No doubt, they would just as well be throwing rocks at American tourists...if they weren't their main source of income.
Now, along comes an "Act of God" earthquake, and everybody is going to be standing at the Red Cross Field Office with their hand out.

Reminds me of Hurricane Katrina....Before the storm, hundreds of low-lifes lived like rats in the ghettos of New Orleans. The levys breach, washing out the dregs of humanity and they all show up at the Red Cross and the Salvation Army for their free food and medical supplies (read:drugs)
The US Army Corps of Engineers brought in a couple hundred trucks and busses, to evacuate people. Most refused, wanting to stick around and see what they could loot. A lot of New Orleans residents were relocated. One place that took them in was Arizona. As if we didn't have enough problems of our own ($5 billion budget shortfall). Most of the relocated people were given (Yes, GIVEN) housing, food, and clothing. Many still haven't found jobs, and continue to live here on....you guessed it, welfare.
Now Hati is in a world of hurt.....Lets rush over there and hand out aid.
I'm sure that Hati would respond in like fashion if the shoe were on the other foot (like hell it would).

Where are all of those Muslims? I read somewhere that the Muslim religion is the most peaceful and loving religion in the world...Howcome they're not in Hati helping the homeless and handing out aid? What about the French, Germans, Russians, or the Canadians? It seems like the Good 'ol USA is just about the only nation that rushes out to help any time there's a disaster. Yet, we're the ones everybody hates...Why is that?

Your Old Dog
01-13-2010, 06:37 PM
An old German philosopher used to say: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

And he has been heard.

So, if I'm reading that right, the old German philosopher was saying because I am willing to work 16 hours a day and a guy who is only willing to work 5 hours a day needs help with his medical INSURANCE I should make some payments for him? That about right? :D What will inspire the lazy bum to try to better himself to make more money so he can do it himself if I am making his payments for him?

Saltmine, minor correction is needed in your post. During the Katrina emergency, Canadian volunteer rescue workers and their kadabor dogs were supposedly held up at the border because they had Canadian flags on their uniforms. They showed up for us many many times even though they had to drag Evan along kicking and scratching !! LOL JUST KIDDING EVAN !

Uncle O
01-13-2010, 06:56 PM
Yet, we're the ones everybody hates...Why is that?

Cuz we still use the Imperial system instead of the "much better"
metric system.....;) :rolleyes:

Oh Yea, and dare to want to pay our own way.....well some of us anyway.

gnm109
01-13-2010, 07:30 PM
The email from Robert A. Hall posted above by Your Old Dog says it all for me. The most complete statement of present day issues I've seen lately.

Thanks, Mr. Y.O.D. :)

The Artful Bodger
01-13-2010, 07:56 PM
Yet, we're the ones everybody hates...Why is that?

Actually hardly anyone hates you but if you tell yourself they do after a while you will believe it and then there will be no restriction on any tendency towards your behaving like asshats!

andy_b
01-13-2010, 09:21 PM
Now do you americans understand why health care is.. a good idea?

I agree. We need to keep the people alive long enough for them to make it to the euthanasia chambers. How else will the bureaucrats make any money. :)

I haven't been to the ER in ages (so my insurance premiums pay for someone else's visits), but my wife was in for a few kids over the years. I think the bill was maybe $20 each time. I have no idea how much was actually billed to the insurance company.

andy b.

madman
01-13-2010, 09:30 PM
When i used to get beaten Bloody years ago and had split s all over my eyes and face just a swipe of Vasoline would stop the blood. Cheap but cuts suck crazy glue is OK but ?? I wonder bout the iso cyanide ciontent?

andy_b
01-13-2010, 09:40 PM
An old German philosopher used to say: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

And he has been heard.

He wasn't German. :) He did share the same last name as Groucho, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Harpo though.

andy b.

dp
01-13-2010, 10:46 PM
He wasn't German. :) He did share the same last name as Groucho, Chico, Gummo, Zeppo and Harpo though.

andy b.

Yer not going to pull the Prussia card on me, are ya? :)

flutedchamber
01-14-2010, 12:00 AM
I love how people blame freeloaders on thier medical costs being 15x fold what it should be.

You really have 15 times more freeloaders then paying 'customers' at the hospital? Do you really just believe everything the media tells you without stoping to think about it for a second? Maybe just.. check the math?

I am not familiar with Canadian emergency rooms, but for the dozen or so times that I have been in the ER here in the US, the majority of people there are being seen for things their family doctor could treat...for one hell of a lot less money.

Why do they go to the ER?? They don't have to pay. They have no insurance, and most doctors will not take you without insurance, at least in NJ anyway.

So, take one small child...5 or 6 years old. Wait until their cold is bad, then take them to the ER at 10pm on a Saturday night. Sit there and piss and moan when you are not taken first...because you have a sick kid. Never mind the woman with a gash in her arm that is leaking blood thru the third towel she has wrapped around her arm, or the guy with a broken leg with the bone sticking out.

Go to the ER if you have an EMERGENCY. Not because you don't have insurance.

Except for a few broken bones, or my last run in with Lyme after my fever hit 104, I don't go to the ER. I bought sutures to stitch myself. At least I clean the wound out before stitching, which is more than I can say the ER did the last time.

I would say that one in 15 is a conservative estimate of the number of people in the ER with an actual emergency.

dp
01-14-2010, 12:27 AM
I would say that one in 15 is a conservative estimate of the number of people in the ER with an actual emergency.

And 911 should be a toll call. Seriously.

Edit:

In my life I've:
1) Broken my back twice in motorcycle races (walked into the clinic)
2) Broke a foot in a motorcycle race
3) Broken fingers and ribs multiple times
4) Broke an arm in HS gymnastics
5) Burst a disk in my back
6) Son was hit by a car
7) Had a heart attack

Been to the ER three times in my life for 2), 6), and 7). But in reality, only went for 2) because I had three more races that night and needed a cast on my foot that looked like a boot cuz I couldn't get my foot back into my boot. Painted the cast black so the officials wouldn't know what it was and won the next two heats.

gmatov
01-14-2010, 03:40 AM
Oh, don't be such **** heads about 'TORT REFORM". Awards in malpractice trials are LESS than 2 billion per year, in a system that costs more than 2.5 TRILLION per year. LESS than one percent.

BANK fraud is more than that, and you pay for their increased fees with no complaint.

All you idjits can hold in your heads is that old lady who got hot coffee in her lap, suffered severe burns, McD's was found to have boiled their coffee to higher temps than any other Company, to save money, by just ADDING to th OLD, YESTERDAY, coffee, and all you come to the defense of the COMPANY.

She was awarded about 4.5 MILLION, reduced to a few hundred thou by an appeals court, and all she asked for IN THE FIRST PLACE, was for McD's to pay a couple thou in medical expenses.

McD's had always bought off the other scaldees with coupons for free Big Macs, thousands of them, as came out in trial testimony, but decided to test their muscle with Sarah.

Thousands of people were scalded by their coffee. Only Sarah was denied, , to prove a point. They lost, and all of YOU take that to be proof of TORTS being why we have such high insurance premiums.

2 and ONE/HALF TRILLION buck Medical Bill each and every year, and going up 10% per year IN A RECESSION, and you idjits think that the status quo is the best bet?

That shows that you are inured to cost increases. I read every night about some of you who buy carbide inserts for 10, 15, 20, per. 30 years ago, I got them for ONE buck per, for the best, for that time, and you cannot tell me that they are so much better that they should cost 20 times as much.

I have cut some tough **** with OLD carbide that I keep hearing you guys bitch about your inserts not being able to handle. The very best that you can buy and breaks down.

But what the hell, everything else costs more, why not medical care?Think about other things that cost more today.

Gasoline, 1960, 26 cents, a year ago, 4 bucks, today, 2.80 X10+.
Bread, 15 cents, today, 2.89, X14.
Whatever, cost a tenth, you pay 15X or more, and get less for it.

Hospitalization is no different. Pay through the nose, get kicked out when you run out of coverage. You do NOT have right to treatment in US hospitals unless they are Mercy Hospitals. They don't refuse you. For profits must treat you enough to stabilize you, then have been known to haul you out and dump you on the nearest vacant corner.

We have the BEST medical care int the WORLD? Who in the hell are you kidding? Punk kids who have never gotten more than a nick on their 'itle pinkie, excused, who else would LIKE better, cheaper, care?

Everybody BUT an avowed Rep? BUT, only because it is proposed BY a Dem, it's "SOCIALIST"!!!Ah, ****.

Cheers,

George

gmatov
01-14-2010, 03:48 AM
dp,

Guys like you are assholes. Not because of anything else you say, friend has a 16 year old, now 17, who flipped his bike over in BMX and came down on his head, CRUSHED his helmet, brain bruise, couple vertebra in neck and back fractured.

3 months later he was racing again. I guess he is good. I won't go to see.

I wrecked badly the first time, I would think it is a sign I should quit. He thinks it is his way to riches. "Live fast, die young, make a good looking corpse".

Cheers,

George

Your Old Dog
01-14-2010, 06:15 AM
George, It's true. Why is it that so many Dems/Libs have to resort to getting personal when a conversation ceases to go their way? Is it too hard to come up with logical argument to defend against common sense and hence the personnal attacks? Your crack to dp was uncalled for.

If per chance you are one of the folks who can't afford health INSURANCE, I feel for you but why would you expect me to pay for your INSURANCE any more then I would pay for your homeowners or car insurance? The big entitlements we have in this country are Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have no right to happiness only the pursuit of same.

Evan
01-14-2010, 06:16 AM
...or the Canadians? It seems like the Good 'ol USA is just about the only nation that rushes out to help any time there's a disaster. Yet, we're the ones everybody hates...Why is that?


Statements like that go a long way to explaining "why is that". Canada is already helping out in Haiti.

Rustybolt
01-14-2010, 08:02 AM
law suits drive up the cost of liability insurance. In Illinoise it's about 12,000 dollars per year for a GP. For a neurosurgeon it's about 100,000 dollars. An anesthesilogist is twice that. That's what it costs them in premiums per year to avoid lawsuits.
Add up all the Drs and specialists and clinic and hopitals and it's more than 2 billion.

Dawai
01-14-2010, 08:17 AM
Who is responsible for people? A guy on the news fell asleep in a rail car, was locked up in a train yard.. was crying on TV.. he could have been ROBBED OR MURDERED? I felt like kicking his ass myself.. putting the blame elsewhere.

He fell asleep. OK? was the railroad responsible for him? ARE we responsible for the "mental children" who sit back and "allow" misfortune they were warned about to happen?

Sports.. a extreme skier on tele.. fell went end over end, ended up paralyzed.. they said over and over.. a terrible accident?? WTF? Read the first line.. sports, "extreme skier"... Accident..

It is a way of thinking. I, am responsible for one person's actions totally. I am responsible for looking out for my minor children, I am responsible for the saftey of my wife and myself if possible after that. If I hurt myself in the shop, it is not the blame of the machine tool. If I shoot myself cleaning a gun, it is not Colt or Ruger's fault.

I sat in the emergency room last time and there was "flu" victims around me hacking and coughing. I was sick afterwards. I was squirting blood from a hand, had electrical tape around it and a napkin soaking up most of it. I sat there two hours while people with a flu virus got shuffled in the back. My thumb was black. Finally I let off the tape and squirted blood and they rushed me into the back to stop the mess.

It is a "not me" idealogy that makes this crap continue.. if you choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmet? and get a $200,000 injury, well no insurance? they will push you into the hallway to die like they did Doc in SOuthern California. His wife was raising so much hell they sent him to a mercy hospital.

snowman
01-14-2010, 08:45 AM
This thread is pathetic.

All you badasses stitching up your own wounds, loading them up with petroleum jelly.

I watch dogs and cats get stitched every day. I'm pretty good with a needle driver myself, I can tie knots with the best of em...but I'm not a surgeon, and my hands are worth too much to start tying my own knots. I'd much rather know that someone who went to school for it and has busted their butts trying to get ahead as a surgeon, is tying, and using their talents to recognize tissue that shouldn't have a knot in it.

The same posts that bitch about 1:15 visits being an actual emergency will then state that the people can't go elsewhere...so where are they supposed to go? Are you ok watching people dying on the street?

People bitch that they don't want to pay for everyone else. What are you paying for now? Do you really think that the amount of tax you pay, pays your way? I doubt it...I really doubt that there are more than two people on this thread that pay enough in taxes each year to pay for the governmental services they so unknowingly wick up. Who pays for it? People that are multiple tax brackets up. People that pay in ten times more than I make in a year.

Black_Moons
01-14-2010, 09:41 AM
snowman makes a very good point.
Most of you people 'working 12+ hours a day' (Yea right) to 'barly make it' are so worryed about 'paying for the freeloaders' don't realise you don't actualy pay for what you get now, YOUR the 'freeloader' on the backs of people making 10x or 100x or even 1000x what you make... Who just happen to own the tv stations.. and news papers.. And get to decide what you see, read and hear... And hence influance what you think and what sides of the issue you hear.

And gee, I wonder what someone making 1,000x you who does not have to worry about health insurance costs but does happen to pay 1000x as much tax as you would like to have happen... Taxes and services for everyone incress, or decress?

PS: that person who makes 1,000x as much as you, is the same person that outsourced your last high paying job to china, requireing you to now work at $10/hr for 12 hours a day to pay for the house you thought you could afford, And then restructured your health insurance and hired investigators to find ways to void your health insurance when you submit a claim because its cheaper to hire investigators to void claims then pay out claims, to incress 'profitability' as much as possable.. Everything he could to insure he does not make 100x what you do but 1,000x what you do. And hes not done yet. He wants 10,000x what you make and wants to pay no taxes on it,
After all, He made that money, Why should he support the 'worthless freeloaders' who make next to nothing, why, most of them don't work at all (because he fired them and outsourced thier job, Or maybe just hired an illegal immigrant you guys are so fond of for under min wage) and clearly they are paying next to nothing while he has to pay 1000x what his own medical costs are, why he should just be able to accumulate every last doller in the country in peace without any oversight or limits or taxation to support the less fortunate unemployed (fired) people, thats be perfictly fair would it not? After all, he worked for every last dollar.. at $10000/hr...
(At that rate, I think he'd actualy be losing more money being in a hospital by being unable to work then they would actualy charge him without insurance, go figure)

Evan
01-14-2010, 09:41 AM
People bitch that they don't want to pay for everyone else. What are you paying for now? Do you really think that the amount of tax you pay, pays your way?

Let's see...

School tax. We have nobody in school but I don't mind that one.

Property tax. That is supposed to pay for various services in the district. They patch the cracks in the road once per decade and plow the snow off a few times per year. Sometimes I have to plow the hill road. No street lights (don't want them anyway), no sidewalks, no police patrols, no fire department, no garbage pickup, no water, no lot line mail delivery...

District capital improvement tax: Hockey arena and swimming pool complex. Never use either one and you have to pay to get in too.

Income tax. Pays for medical care at provincial level along with the $96 that we pay each month. I should be getting the extra disability pension benefit since I am retired and collecting social security but I don't qualify because I was self employed. They tax the pension too. It's called "clawback". The medical plan also doesn't pay the $$$ I spend on prescription drugs for my fibro treatment.

We don't even come close to receiving enough benefits to make up what we pay in taxes. People that live in rural area like us are subsidizing those that live in town. It isn't just the wealthy that pay for everybody else.

snowman
01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Sorry Evan, I don't see you as being someone who could look a dying person in the face and tell them, "You shoulda worked harder so you could have better insurance".

In fact, I doubt that most of the people that are spouting off have balls that big...and if they do, I really pity them and the world they live in.

I don't like all of the taxes I pay...but I know that there are those that need those taxes to be paid. I'm not happy when it comes out of my paycheck, or when we write the check to the city, state, feds...but I'd much rather see kids playing hockey in the expensive rec center that this city has built with our taxes than being hoodlums.

We have ten parks within a one mile walk, I occasionally walk my dogs in them...but I enjoy seeing kids playing in that park when I drive by, or a bunch of teenagers playing ball on the courts that a small part of my taxes pay for.

Same thing when I go to the hospital. I'd much rather go to the hospital at 2am and be seen right away when I'm passing a kidney stone because the people that would have been in front of me taking up services were able to go to the clinic earlier, and don't need to go to the ER at 2am for "free".

I know a lot of people on the god awful Canadian socialist medicine, and each one of them is amazed when I tell them what happens when I go to the doctor.

Dawai
01-14-2010, 11:39 AM
Another point, I had to "wipe" the chair down each time I had a customer, it was the only clean way to do it.

Do you see anyone wiping the chairs down in the e-room? Most the "bums" in there have HIV, Full blown Aids, or hepatitus from drug use, not the mention the "airborne" aersols from coughing and fluids being lost. These people are there, sick cause they didn't care what they did to themselves, much less infecting you through being just nasty.

Sometimes you'd be better to just put a dab of liquid skin on it and go on.

We are all born to die, keeping insurance ensures you have a valid chance in America to "get" quality health care to make it go a lil longer.

Your Old Dog
01-14-2010, 04:07 PM
My tax situation is about the same as Evans accept I do get mail delivery. Can't stay long, got to go out in the road and pick up the dead bodies. That's a bit of an exageration but not much more then someone elses claim that people are dying in the street due to lack of health care INSURANCE. They do get treated by law but they don't have a card in their wallet that says BlueCross INSURANCE. THIS IS AN INSURANCE ISSUE AND NOT A HEALTH CARE AS PEOPLE DO GET SEEN WHEN SICK IN THIS COUNTRY. DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE.

I can come up with argument against real life but not exagerated and over stated claims quoted as though they are common every day occurences.

flutedchamber
01-14-2010, 04:32 PM
This thread is pathetic.

All you badasses stitching up your own wounds, loading them up with petroleum jelly.

I watch dogs and cats get stitched every day. I'm pretty good with a needle driver myself, I can tie knots with the best of em...but I'm not a surgeon, and my hands are worth too much to start tying my own knots. I'd much rather know that someone who went to school for it and has busted their butts trying to get ahead as a surgeon, is tying, and using their talents to recognize tissue that shouldn't have a knot in it.

The same posts that bitch about 1:15 visits being an actual emergency will then state that the people can't go elsewhere...so where are they supposed to go? Are you ok watching people dying on the street?

People bitch that they don't want to pay for everyone else. What are you paying for now? Do you really think that the amount of tax you pay, pays your way? I doubt it...I really doubt that there are more than two people on this thread that pay enough in taxes each year to pay for the governmental services they so unknowingly wick up. Who pays for it? People that are multiple tax brackets up. People that pay in ten times more than I make in a year.

Snowman,

I reread all the threads and could not find where anyone called themselves a 'badass'...but I must admit that I may have missed it.

I cannot speak for others, but I took up suturing myself AFTER I almost lost mu foot to gas gangrene.

I made a puncture wound on my left instep when I rode the outrigger up on my backhoe. I had done it a hundred times with no problem, but this time I lost my balance and pushed the handle longer than I wanted to. I broke the central tarsal bones going to the last 3 toes (don't remember the technical name) and pushed the bones out the top of the foot.

I managed to lower the outrigger and step off the loader. I removed my shoe and then the blood came out. I sat down and held the heel and pulled the toes, finally managing to get the bones back inside the foot. This I did to prevent infection getting INTO the bones.

Was driven to the ER with the usual line of 'poor people who have no medical insurance and can't get service elsewhere' and waited in line like a good payer. Finally, one hour and twenty minutes later when I passed out in the chair I was taken.

My history was taken and I was WALKED back to a curtained area. Another half hour later the 'surgeon' comes in, I tell him EVERYTHING that I told the nurse, he promptly tells me NO ONE SETS THEIR OWN BONES, and leaves. A nurse comes back with a puke pan and a bottle of saline, 1 liter. Surgeon returns and pours some saline on the wound and wipes with gauze. He picks up his suture kit and I tell him the wound isn't clean. He tells me that he's a 'professional' and knows when a wound is clean...and proceeds to stitch me up.

He finishes the first stitch and I tell him it's not going to hold..my foot is swelling so fast you can watch it change size. Again, I am told of his 'professional experience' and he starts the second suture. By the beginning of suture 3, suture one pops. I ask him wouldn't it be better to wrap with a sterile dressing and wait for the swelling to go down. I receive the same 'professional' answer. By suture 12 he's starting back up top and an inch back..well into the meat to get them to hold. I am now wrapped with gauze, given a script for pain, an antibiotic script, wound care instructions and instructions to go to a doctor to have the sutures removed in 10 days. Then I was given a pair of crutches and released. NO WHEELCHAIR...WALK TO THE DOOR.

I change the dressings as instructed, and 10 days later go to see my orthopod. He removes the dressing and the 3 sutures holding the wound closed. He leaves the room and comes back with an associate. Some nods and chin scratching and I am told to go to the University of Penn IMMEDIATELY. I have gas gangrene.

I won't bore you with the particulars, but wonder boy 'professional' in the ER sutured me up with grass in the wound. I was on IV antibiotics for 24 hours and was told that if the infection got into the broken bones they would have to remove my foot. Fortunately, my bone setting was good and the ends met, sealing the infection out. The orthopod said if he didn't find bone splinters in the muscle tissue he would never have believed that the bones had been pushed thru the skin...and told me he could not have done a better job setting the bones than I did.

I spent 10 days in the hospital, half in ICU and I still have my foot. There is a silver dollar size depression where the wound was as a reminder that some 'professionals' arent.

When I got the bill from the ER I called them and sent them a copy of my medical records from University of Penn. They defended the ER surgeon by saying 'he did what he thought was right at the time.'

I paid all my bills, granted they were by installments, but they were paid in full...even the ER bill for the jackass surgeon.

You wrote 'where are the people supposed to go when they have no medical insurance?' I have an answer. They can pay cash. 'Where do they find the cash for such things?' The same place that they find it for $200 sneakers, $400 jackets and God knows how much for the rest of their ensemble that they wear to the ER, and the new $35K car that they drove to the ER in.
Oh, I forgot to mention the Mr. T starter kit hanging around their neck.

I drive a used car, dress in clean jeans and my jewelry consists of a wedding band. See Snowman, the difference is that I don't live beyond my means and ask no one to support me. Perhaps some people may use more of the government programs than they pay back into them, the key word is THEY ARE WORKING AND PAYING INTO THEM...NOT JUST TAKING AND PAYING NOTHING.

On the topic of using government benefits..as far as school tax I believe that a single person or childless couple should pay zero school tax. One child..you pay X dollars for the rest of your life, two kid, XX dollars for the rest of your life, three kids XXX dollars..and so on. This would put the tax where it belongs..on the shoulders of those who use it. I had two kids...BECAUSE THAT IS HOW MAY I COULD AFFORD (after paying for those who pay nothing for anything or those who think their last name is Walton, and their son is named John boy)

flutedchamber
01-14-2010, 04:33 PM
My tax situation is about the same as Evans accept I do get mail delivery. Can't stay long, got to go out in the road and pick up the dead bodies. That's a bit of an exageration but not much more then someone elses claim that people are dying in the street due to lack of health care INSURANCE. They do get treated by law but they don't have a card in their wallet that says BlueCross INSURANCE. THIS IS AN INSURANCE ISSUE AND NOT A HEALTH CARE AS PEOPLE DO GET SEEN WHEN SICK IN THIS COUNTRY. DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE.

I can come up with argument against real life but not exagerated and over stated claims quoted as though they are common every day occurences.


Very well put. Myself, I trip over dead bodies daily.

derekm
01-14-2010, 05:46 PM
ER visits - cost it all depends on the size
and they fit a far wider range of injury than 5C visits
:)

Black_Moons
01-14-2010, 07:54 PM
derekm: only if your goverment pays for ER40 visits, you get stuck with socialised ER16 visits and you'll really have problems!

dp
01-14-2010, 09:02 PM
I think we're all going to be on the Sherline plan, soon. No offense to Sherline intended.

oldtiffie
01-14-2010, 09:42 PM
P'raps the US needs a Marshall Plan (it didn't do Germany much harm).

Japan did pretty well from its Occupation.

And they both had wrecked economies!!

And they "lost"??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

andy_b
01-15-2010, 06:30 PM
Gasoline, 1960, 26 cents, a year ago, 4 bucks, today, 2.80 X10+.
Bread, 15 cents, today, 2.89, X14.



What was the average wage in 1960? How about 2009?

I'll even help you out.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html

1960: $4,007.12
2008: $41,334.97

andy b.

dockrat
01-15-2010, 07:38 PM
in 1964 I could buy a new car with a years wages

At the rate of pay when I retired a bit ago I could buy almost 3 new cars with a years wages

saltmine
01-15-2010, 10:04 PM
The Marshaall Plan might not be a bad idea...except for one thing.

Who could we declare war on that would rebuild our economy once they kicked our butts? Nobody.

gregl
01-15-2010, 10:21 PM
The Marshaall Plan might not be a bad idea...except for one thing.

Who could we declare war on that would rebuild our economy once they kicked our butts? Nobody.

China. They need us as customers.

Your Old Dog
01-15-2010, 10:53 PM
The Marshaall Plan might not be a bad idea...except for one thing.

Who could we declare war on that would rebuild our economy once they kicked our butts? Nobody.

Some would argue the PotUS