Pillar bedding questions.. conflicting info

[softtail]

So the crack repair on the 700 300 Win Mag went off like a charm. Next step is intalling the pillars and then glass bedding. It seems like there's a few ways to do this from the snooping I've done. I also intend to bed the trigger guard.

Material removal seems to be simple and the same from various sources, so no problem. Gap tolerances are also straight forward and understood (except below).

The length of the pillars, and how they sit in regards to both the action and trigger guard bottom is where I find conflicting info. I'm using non adjustable pillars and have a lathe, so not worried about getting the length, just need to know what I'm aiming for.

Regarding length I've found:

-Actual distance from bottom of trigger guard to lowest point of radiused end of block (I'll call this actual distance) + .010.

- Actual distance +.050 for front pillar, and -.050 for rear pillar. This one threw me.

-Actual distance for the front, and the rear -.050 (below surface of trigger guard bottom).

-Actual distance and can be up to .020 longer.

For placement, I've found:

- Bolt properly sized pilars to action, put a dab of eppoxy on, drop action/barrel/pilars in stock, allow epoxy to set, move on to bedding at which time pillars are then bonded fully in their holes.

- Put some epoxy on, slide pillars in holes, install trigger guard and screws, snug up.

So my main questions are do I want the pillars flush with the bottom of the trigger guard? .010 long with the addition length under the action to be taken up by bedding compound?


Should I install the pillars, and the come in and remove stock material around them, and then bed (this makes sense to me)?

Thanks for the help...


st

[38_Cal]

The way I do it with non-adjustable pillars...btw, I designed the adjustable ones that Brownells sells as well as their "house brand" non adjustable ones...is to set the length from the bedded height of the receiver to the bottom of the triggerguard, assuming that the guard is at the proper height relative to the exterior of the stock. Makes no real difference which you do first, bed or fit & glue in the pillars, bit I think it's a bit easier to do the pillars first. Make sure on the rear pillar that you've got proper clearance for the trigger and bolt release.

David

[softtail]

If I'm reading you right, I could set the pillars as the stock sits now (no material removed yet from bed), then remove some material, and then bed? That would preserve the height of the action, which is good at this point.

The guard sits fine.

Is the goal to have the pillars contacting the guard as well the action, or to have a slight gap b/t the guard/pillar base?


st

[mf205i]

The pillars must be a little long so as to maintain an intimate metal to metal contact with the floor plate and the receiver. Prior to bedding, assemble the rifle. If everything is sitting as it should and you can wiggle the barreled action in the stock a little, you are good to go. I don’t know if you have done this before but modeling clay, black tape and two applications of release agent are your friends.
Have fun, Mike

[softtail]

Yeah, I got the whole smear here. Just needed to be clear(er) on what length the pillars should be. Thanks.

st

[38_Cal]

The pillars don't need to be "long" at all on the finished job. Clamp your barrel in a padded bench vise forward of the forend tip, with the bottom of the rifle facing up. Measure the height of the triggerguard/floorplate at the screw holes compared to the stock on either side. Drill your stock for the pillars and "dry fit" them into the stock, with the barrel still in the vise. Place the guard onto the pillars in it's inletting and measure the height of the guard to the stock. Cut down the pillars by the difference in height on the guard with and without the pillars in place. Glue in the pillars then bed. After the bedding is cured, I like to make sure that the barrel free floats from the area in front of the chamber to the end of the stock. If properly positioned when bedding, there will be an even amount of gap on each side of the barrel up the channel.

Some barrels, I've found, shoot better with a bit of forend tip pressure. If you live in an area with humidity swings during the year, I would recommend free floating the barrel, even if it means a bit larger group size. The wood will move during the year, sometimes over 1/16", and if you pressure bed the barrel, this could lead to side pressure or extreme upward or downward movement at the forend tip, making major changes to the barrel's position relative to the receiver. My preference is to be able to take the rifle out of the case and know that the first shot will be "in the group" rather than several inches or more away from where it was shooting the last time it was at the range.

More ramblings later, if needed! :D

David

[softtail]

Got it!

Why don't more guys install adjustable forend pressure points? I have a heavy barrel 22 that has one.. pretty slick. You can have zero to many pounds of pressure with the turn of a screw.

st

[Boucher]

Variable sling pull will hurt accuracy if you have fore end pressure from bedding or from adjustable pressure points. The Rem 40X rimfires used to come with adjustable pressure devices. They were the first thing removed and thrown in the trash. Or given to someone you competed with in hopes that he would use them.

[Boucher]

Mount a dial indicator in a magnetic mount and set it on the barrell foreward of the stock with the tip touching the forend of the stock stock. I hold the barrell in the padded jaws of the vice. Release the pressure on the front gard screw. On a good pillar bedding job it will not move. Same with the rear screw and we won't even bring up the three screw rifles.

American Gunsmith Institute (AGI) has a video by Darrell Holland on pillar bedding. It is worth the price. There are lots of ways to do pillar bedding some are easier than others. If they are done right the indicator test will tell you.

I bought one of the Rem 40X's in 220 Swift when they brought them back out. It was in the black fiberglass stock. It didn't shoot like I thought it should. I was telling one of my friends that is a serious benchrest competetior. He told me to take it to his gunsmith friend. I did and the guy checked it with the dial indicator and told me that the bedding job was good and that I probably needed to check out my scope mounting because I had a good and proven scope. Changed rings and bases and everything started working like it was supposed to.

[softtail]

Thanks Boucher. Yes that makes sense on the adj pressure point. The rifle I have that has one is a bench shooter, so no sling.

I've been reading the Holland technique on line. Very good.

I drilled the stock and got the pillars to rough length yesterday. Need to open up the holes a bit, and then onward!

There's some really hoakey complex explanations for deriving pillar length. I just mounted them on the action, slid it in the slock, held it down with hand pressure, and scribed the pillars.

I'm also surprised at the lack of mention of making sure the action/barrel is oriented completely vertical with the stock, ie so the trigger/rings don't veer off to one side or the other.

I think I'll scribe a small line on both the tang and the stock at the tang that will line up when everything is spot on so I can be sure without needing to try and look at the bottom of the stock when it's filled with epoxy.


Thanks once again for the info...

st

[38_Cal]

One thing I forgot to mention...if you ask five experienced gunsmiths how to do something, you're likely to get nine or ten different ways to do it! :D

David

[softtail]

One thing I forgot to mention...if you ask five experienced gunsmiths how to do something, you're likely to get nine or ten different ways to do it! :D

David

Yeah, kinda got that feeling when I found 6 different views on pillar length! The instructions that came with the pillars are just completely goofy.


st

[Boucher]

One of Hollands techniques covered glueing the pillars in place attached to the Bbl action to establish basic orientation/position in the stock. His instructions have probably evolved over time. He has done enough that he has the trouble spots worked out. He is a bright guy, a good teacher and a top gunsmith/machinist. Steve Acker has also published some good articles in our sponsorers magazine. He has produced videos on bedding and tuning the 700 Rem. Steve is also a top notch teacher. These Videos are good teaching mediums and if they prevent you from making one mistake they will have paid for themselves. The really nice thing is that you can go back and review them any time you need to.

By the way could you post a link to Hollands on line information.