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View Full Version : Tire burning stove for workshop?



ibewgypsie
10-17-2003, 08:57 PM
Anyone know of a design? WE have over 700 tires at the new shop... A disaster. Owner has a lawsuit against the guy who left them.

I know they burn hot.. too hot for a barrel stove..

David.

wierdscience
10-17-2003, 09:20 PM
Well the trick is getting rid of the black smoke,a propane afterburner is in order.

You also need a grate cleaner so you can remove the steel belts quickly.

My boss had a design he was working on for an aluminum foundry in Mexico,don't think they would let them burn tires either though.

SJorgensen
10-17-2003, 10:55 PM
I once knew a polygamist in Ephraim Utah that had a working design. If you'd like I could find out how far he got with it. He was a pretty interesting and capable guy (you'd have to be!) He and his best friend built homebuilt aircraft. His friend augered in when something snapped. Thats how he ended up with wife #2.

Spence

Weston Bye
10-18-2003, 08:26 AM
When I was a kid, my grandad had an excavating company. Had a big corrugated steel building where the machinery repair was done, lotsa cracks and no insulation. In the winter they set up a 1500 gal. tank on end added a chimney of corrugated culvert and cut a door in the side. Into this they would throw a truck tire, rim and all, along with tar-block wooden flooring removed from a local GM plant, and light it up. Pitch-black smoke from the chimney, but there was nobody down wind that complained. Eventually, the tank/stove would glow dull red, and working would be comfortable anywhere within about fifteen feet. One day I (10 years old) was there watching the goings-on but I got cold so I stood with my back to the stove until my dad noticed that smoke was rising from my back. The back of my new Mackinaw jacket was charred. I didn't get beat, but chewed out pretty good.

Wes

c&smachine
10-18-2003, 09:21 AM
Burning tires have a great heat source. One of the problems is possibly too much heat and black smelly emissions. If you procede with this project, here are a few suggestions. Use a large thick walled tank, like a 500 gallon anhydrous tank. If possible, put a flighting on the inside of the tank. The tank is sitting on its end. Also put a ventilated grate in the bottom. And to keep the fire burning hot enough to burn the black emissions the vent must have a forced air fan. I hope this helps. A thirteen inch tire puts off an incredible amount of heat, so be prepared to open the windows. Another thing to consider when building this is to design it so it can burn pulled fence posts and railroad ties. One more consideration is cutting steel belted tires. Cappy Pinkerton

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kenc
10-18-2003, 10:58 AM
No one cares about the pollution from burning tires?

Alistair Hosie
10-18-2003, 11:14 AM
kenc
Member posted 10-18-2003 11:58 AM
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No one cares about the pollution from burning tires?

I am surprised by this statement.Certainly I would guess you are wrong with regards to this. Burning tyres or tires these days is very much a matter for concern as the pollutants given off are very dangerous you may find you are in for a big shock.Better check with the local authority as here anyone caught using tires for fuel in this way would be very heaviuly fined.Could be prohibitively expensive.Alistair

winchman
10-18-2003, 12:25 PM
Not to mention that the burning creosote releases cresols which are carcinogenic.

Alistair Hosie
10-18-2003, 01:23 PM
yes that too be careful Ibew the environmental health people treat this much more seriously than a few years ago even.Alistair

Rustybolt
10-18-2003, 08:47 PM
Ah. To hell with the pollution! I'm getting tired of snow in December anyway.Pump some freon through that puppy while your at it.

ibewgypsie
10-18-2003, 08:56 PM
I wonder the differences in burning tires and coal.

Some heavy coal smokes quite as much as the tires would. Sulphur? acid rain? they use it close to here for power generation. Grind it up, spray it against a plate and burn it. At least that is the clean system at the WIdows Creek steam generation plant.

I wonder... I remember seeing a movie where (blackhawk down) the natives used the tires as a signal fire..

possibly they are not being burned at high enough of a temperature?

sch
10-18-2003, 09:28 PM
Local cement manufacturer (Lehigh?) burned tires in their kiln for a while, not clear if they are still doing so. Cement kilns are one of the few operations that run at a temp high enough to completely combust the tires. IIRC the use of tires as fuel was developmental , some kilns just tossed the whole tire in and others shredded in advance. The wire component was said to enhance the cement product. Steve

[This message has been edited by sch (edited 10-18-2003).]

Sprocket
10-19-2003, 07:46 PM
A paper company over in Ticonderoga NY has been trying to get permission for a test burn of old tires in the paper mill. The people on this side of the lake (Vermont) aren't too happy at the prospect of tire smoke floating their way. I think there must be better ways of using old tires. Don't know how much smoke scrubbing they planned to do. Maybe in an industrial setting they can be burned cleanly.

[This message has been edited by Sprocket (edited 10-19-2003).]

BC21OSH
10-19-2003, 08:14 PM
They have shredded tires and added them with asphalt in paving roads. I don't know how much of that is being done or where.

I can imagine that there may be a way to add an afterburner on a furnace to clean up the emissions. Maybe introduce some air or oxygen and a little propane or natural gas. Something similar to a gas fired forge? The cost of it might make it impractical and then there may still be emissions that although not visible would still be objectionable to the regulatory agencies.

Bernard

lone waddie
10-19-2003, 09:05 PM
I was part of the tire burning installation at a cement plant (Essroc, in PA). The tires where dropped into the rotary oven and vaporized instantly in the 2000*F heat.The EPA installed all kinds of monitors on the smoke stack. Must be a tax write off, because after the EPA got done adding 'sniffers', you could not burn enough scrap tires to pay for the installation. Great source of energy remains unused.When I get cold, quess one option will be to "Hug a tree".

[This message has been edited by lone waddie (edited 10-19-2003).]

[This message has been edited by lone waddie (edited 10-19-2003).]

Bruce Griffing
10-20-2003, 12:12 AM
I don't really think this is a good idea at all, but if I had to do it... I would build a container you could put several ground up tires in and seal. You would then heat the container with a burner using natural gas at first. The gases evolved from the container would be used as fuel to continue the process until the tires were consumed. Even done this way emissions would be awful. But it would be better than burning the tires directly in air.

darryl
10-20-2003, 01:18 AM
I'm probably just pulling some dumb idea out of the air, but isn't there, in this year of 2003, a chemical, an acid, or a process that would dissolve the rubber into a form that's reusable? Apart from grinding it up, that is, not that there's anything wrong with making roads out of it. I know that recycling almost anything is more expensive than creating the product in the first place, but when there's a problem to be solved, like what to do with 40,000,000,000 old tires, hmm.

lynnl
10-20-2003, 09:15 AM
I was walking thru the old historic homes district the other day, past a house that was having the slate roof replaced. The crew was on a lunch break so I stopped to talk awhile. They told me the 'slate' shingles they were putting on were made of old tires. They looked very good. A little more shiney than natural slate, but I'd guess they'll lose some of the sheen after a year or so. Priced at over $300/square.

Also, while watching the Ala vs Ole Miss football game this weekend, the announcers were discussing Ole Miss's new artificial playing field. The said it was made of shredded old tires. This was said to be much more plush and softer than the old artificial surfaces. (About $750M)

Rustybolt
10-20-2003, 09:18 AM
This sounds like a perfect opportunity to experiment with getting these things to burn cleanly. Maybe burn them slowly, like in a kind of retort and run the stack through a water filter. See what settles out.

Paul Gauthier
10-20-2003, 09:21 AM
I cannot find it now but I once had a link to a web site about using tires to create fuel oil. The process involve heating, not burning, the tires and condensing the fumes given off thus creating an oil that was said to be good as heating oil.

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Paul G.

Jerry B
10-20-2003, 12:26 PM
not that there's anything wrong with making roads out of it.


I read a newspaper artical several years ago about a road that was paved using old tires in the mix. The road caught fire and burned (smoldered) for several days.

ibewgypsie
10-20-2003, 03:37 PM
Cutting the grooves in the road during repaving..

the sorry GOVT contractors, as you drive over that, your tires heat up, grind off, melt into the pavement, then when they put the pavement back down they have more then they took up..

YOUR wore out tires are not thier concern.

David..

Hit them on a motorcycle for a real thrill. (ribbed tires are worse).

darryl
10-20-2003, 04:04 PM
Ok, now I'm looking for a map that shows all the roads to avoid driving on. I didn't know that about recycled tires in asphalt. I guess those roads need to be 'retired'.
My usual overactive imagination has come up with another idea- heat sand to the vaporizing point, along with the old tires, and whip the resulting gaseous mixture into a vortex, then condense that mix by introducing steam at very high temp (but lower than the vaporized mixture's temp). The steam has to be given a high static charge. Cool the result by spraying it through a spinning magnetic field, into which sunlight is focussed to an amazingly brightness level, onto a water-cooled drum. Oh heck, why not cool the drum externally, by spraying liquid methane on it, just before the other mixture hits it. Oh, I almost left out another important ingredient, salt. Maybe some pepper, too.

ibewgypsie
10-20-2003, 04:38 PM
Actually,

I was thinking of a thick walled refractory, one of the 1 1/2 hp blowers pid controlled with exhaust and intake throttle controls. Maybe a oxygen sensor off a old car..

I have several hundred tires. Plenty more to be had for free. Something about the coming heat bills for a 40x80 shop have me interested.

If I could get the emissions down to a light black smoke.. I'd be interested. Perhaps downdraft? through the ash? Heated intake? Throttled air injection into the stack? secondary burner?

So far nothing seems plausible. Plenty of these tires have excellent tread. I have been looking for a enterprising person to sell them.

David

Alistair Hosie
10-20-2003, 06:34 PM
Ibew I am sure there is a safe way of doing it out there question is can it be done cheaply enough to make it worthwhile.I think there would be plenty of heat produced no question but quite how you would get the exhaust gasses dealt with that could be expensive.I think there must be an ingenious way of using old car tires.(spelt the American way).I read once about a company who took them out to sea and chucked them overboard ,seemingly the fish love to have them for a secure environment and thrive around them has anyone else heard of this Alistair

Dave Burnett
10-20-2003, 07:44 PM
Where I live you can hardly smoke a good cigar outside with out the fire dept. coming over and telling you to put it out or they will and charge you $200.00. That would really make their day, burn a few car tires. I would make the front page of the paper with a stunt like that. By the way, a good cigar is a Cuban one that I sneak in from Canada when ever I go there. I can,t buy em here.

wierdscience
10-20-2003, 08:31 PM
Reusing tires in asphalt ya thats been done,but did you know that a lot of your newer ultra high mile warranty tire include rubber from recycled tires?

I know of a guy down at the local Nasa facility who was heading up a project to freeze tire chunks so they could be ground up more effeicently,according to him the recycled tire rubber when added to the new tire mix increased the life cycle of the tire as much as 50%,something to do with having already been treated before.

Anyway they were trying to use lox in a cooling jacket to freeze the tires-uh what happens when you guys get a leak?Oh,look for the mushroom cloud http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

I think they finally solved the problem by using a heat exchanger system that used the lox to re-liquify co2 and only the co2 was used in the freezer.

darryl
10-20-2003, 09:07 PM
The trick is to get the smoke to burn completely. Enclosing the tires, heating them, then burning the smoke, seems to be a reasonable way. A propane assisted start seems reasonable. If the tires are burned in a chamber where the inner part is a ceramic or whatever, firebrick, and the outer is a steel shell, that should take care of the temperature problem, allowing them to burn very hot without having a housing meltdown. The volume of firebrick may be chosen to give enough thermal mass to keep temperatures high enough inside to allow intermittent fueling with fresh tyres. (oops, some english snuck in there). I would arrange a blower, and also a secondary combustion. The output from the blower could be split in two, with one airstream going to the lower unit, one going to the secondary burner, which could be propane assisted, or could be done with high voltage. One air gate in front of the blower would adjust the flow rate, and two gates after the blower would let you divide the flow between primary and secondary burners. Maybe the motor could be controlled for total airflow rate, depends on the motor and controller. If going the high voltage route, an experiment is needed in order to determine what voltage is required to cause current to flow in the exhaust stream. It's possible to lower the voltage requirement by seeding the furnace with salts, a flue-cleaning powder would probably work for this. A large quantity wouldn't be needed, just a small 'dusting' into the secondary burner. The resulting arc through the smoke could reach extremely high temperatures, requiring the 'burn chamber' to be cooled, possibly by circulating the secondary airflow around that section, before it enters the chamber. Heat from this secondary burner would be extracted into the room with a standard heat exchanger, or passively through a suitable length of stovepipe. This all sounds a lot more involved than a simple burner, but it's not rocket science. One problem I can see immediately is if the fan stops, say a power failure, when the chamber is hot. You might have to be able to contain a super hot liquid rubber running down the walls of the housing, into the base, hopefully not backing up into the air inlet. You also may need to protect from a possible backfire out the inlet. Another concern is when you open the door to refuel, you could get a backfire.

BC21OSH
10-20-2003, 09:36 PM
Alistair,

Yes I have seen fish habitat constructed from old tires. The bass fishing enthusiasts out in the Pacific Northwest would construct a frame made from rebar and then attach old tires to it and place it out in a manmade lake or reservoir.

Bernard

ibewgypsie
10-20-2003, 11:12 PM
So.. that is what they did in "BLACK BOTTOM", a local fishing hole.... the tires on the bottom made it look yep.. black.. I always thought the name came from the BLACK neighbor hood it was in.. I remember my stepdad losing a hundred hooks and sinkers there....

They burn carpet scraps in a boiler locally. They smoke pretty good since the glue is latex.

I'll think on it for a bit.. I got so many things going it may get shoved aside.

Joel
10-20-2003, 11:23 PM
Dave, let me assure you that the fire department has no desire to rush over to your house and put out your cigar-foundry-brush-or-whatever fires. The neighbors excitedly call them in and they have no choice but to come over and unenthusiastically put them out. We don't make the laws, but are obligated to follow them when people complain. BTW, when the call comes in you often don’t know if it is a house, field or what exactly is on fire. Don't know why they would bother to charge $200. A city rule I suppose. It costs a lot more then that to roll an engine.

Alistair Hosie
10-21-2003, 08:58 AM
Good point Joel, plus apart from the (cost to roll an engine) it could be better used perhaps somewhere else at a real emergency. Alistair

ibewgypsie
10-21-2003, 09:04 AM
Joel...

In Walker county, you have to join a membership before they will even come out to your home that is on fire. Pay a yearly fee.

I lived there for about four years before I found this out. When I did, I was loud and rude to the people I paid the money to.

They had already heard of me, I had captured a arsonist and had him face down in the driveway for the police. Ambulance drivers and firemen are the same in some places. They told me crime and fires went down in my neighborhood. They would have responded to my home cause they had heard of me?? I guess it is the good old boy network.

Here in Whitfield county things are different. Not real sure how things work, I have never saw a firetruck out here. They have spotter towers to watch the game reserves I think, they do double duty watching houses too.

The only way I would burn tires is to figure a way to completly combust them. It is sure that setting them on fire in a brush pile makes it smoke like crazy.

All I need is court bills from several hundred senior citizens from smoke inhalation. Get on the wagon, make some of his money whoo hoo... Lets go to florida..
No, honest your honor, it was not the 45 years of smoking cigarettes that put the spots on my lungs, it was the tires burning 3 miles away.

It happened to a local paper company. Everyone with a address came out to sue them.

Evan
10-21-2003, 10:48 AM
We don't have any fire protection where I live. Only the water bombers in summer and they don't do houses.

Joel
10-21-2003, 01:31 PM
ibew, I guess some people are just wankers. I have a definite problem with paying a fee for fire protection. My fire department wouldn't even consider it, even though costs are high, and funding low. My department has flaws, but we never complain about going to a house at 4:00am to help someone who can't get up to relieve themselves. We go wherever we are asked, do whatever is needed, and routinely help other departments put out their fires. Wouldn’t dream of charging anyone a penny.
Support your volunteer departments, most of the country is protected by them.

Evan, consider starting one in your area. A little equipment isn’t that expensive and goes a long way. You need a BIG source of water though.

ibewgypsie
10-21-2003, 08:11 PM
Joel..

The adrenalin rush you get running into a burning building is akin to riding a drag exhaust harley through Atlanta Georgia during rush hour.

I understand why young guys get hooked.

Every community needs a volunteer fire dept. If nothing else to save lives. Running a fire truck out to save a man who zips up on his wienie is overkill if you aske me thou. (mother, Jugs, Speed movie) Ha..

David.