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View Full Version : Cracked software trade???



spelunker121
10-19-2003, 07:46 PM
I am in the wrong place.........

[This message has been edited by spelunker121 (edited 10-20-2003).]

John Stevenson
10-19-2003, 07:50 PM
They always say there's one born every minute.
Unfortunatly they have to be raised.
What a plonker.

spelunker121
10-19-2003, 09:28 PM
no plonker...im serious

SJorgensen
10-19-2003, 10:37 PM
That kind of talk I wouldn't recommend.

Evan
10-19-2003, 10:56 PM
Spelunker,

I suggest you reconsider what you have proposed. Take a long walk off a short pier. What a doorknob.

Bruce Griffing
10-19-2003, 11:46 PM
What is cracked software??

AmickRacing
10-19-2003, 11:54 PM
Basically it's a program that alters the software into thinking it's the full version.

Mastercam (and autocad?)'s cracks emulate a dongle (thing that goes on the back of the computer, telling it you bought it. Others are just a serial #.

spelunker121
10-19-2003, 11:55 PM
Whats with the flames?....sorry I asked....geez.

Evan
10-20-2003, 12:32 AM
Spelunker,

In the past I once spent over 1000 hours developing a software package. I sent it out to a number of software houses for consideration for publishing. I drove 3000 miles to visit serveral publishers in person to promote my work. A software house in Toronto tried to steal my program. (It's way more complicated than that, but this will have to suffice). I called in the RCMP and they recovered my work.


When someone "cracks" a program or offers a "cracked" program to others they are stealing the bread out of the children's mouths of the programmers who spent many hours trying to make a living and support themselves and their family.

You deserve all the FLAMES I CAN MUSTER. If I wasn't so nice I would kill your IP and take you off the net.

Oso
10-20-2003, 12:36 AM
First because its quite illegal, which isn't the best sort of dealing to bring to this forum.
In case you do not know,
for every copy of illegal software you can be required to buy the equivalent software package to start with, and then pay three times more as penalty. Total four times the value.
try the "Business Software Alliance"

http://www.bsa.org/

Second, see first.

dvideo
10-20-2003, 09:40 AM
Nothing wrong with wanting to pay less. So may be you could buy a less expensive program (there are a lot of good programs for "free" or low cost - example: Intellicad vs Autocad). If you qualify, you can also buy educational versions of fairly expensive programs. Often, reduced in price substantially - but you need to qualify. Some schools, if you go to the right one, have an agreement with M$ for radically reduced pricing on office, XP Pro, *.net, etc.

There are PD and shareware and low cost programs that are not just good - but better than what you can buy. They don't promote much, obviously, but you can ask around and find them. Virus checkers, adware killers, spybot wackers - and the like are good targets.

Sometime you pay retail - and just have to do it. Like my XP for my current system. Worth it, I have to say.

But there is also software sold at reduced prices in other countries - just like pharmacy drugs and machine tools. Some software sold in China can be ordered and used here. I guess there are going to be questions, but this grey marketing question has been around a while and ruled OK by the courts. You might not get support, but if you buy a licensed copy in approved fashion from a foreign source, I would think it ok. It can be a pain to deal with, though. I have bought UK and German SW to use on the old Amigas - and it was a hassle to deal with. No other option, then, though.

I suspect this Grey Marketing of SW and IP is going to be a big issue soon. Grey marketing of software from other countries is not really differnet from sales of pharmacy drugs or even machine tools. Since the Gov't is just fine with imports to HF, HD, Wally World and others, then it must be OK for us and SW too. Many SW makers are moving their support to India - so why can't we buy SW from India - at their prices? It's A Small World After All (tm- Disney :> ).

At the end of the day, your general useful value of SW is what you paid. Nothing is really free - and cheap stuff gets percieved cheaply, no matter what you pay for it.

-- just my 2 yen's worth...

Evan
10-20-2003, 11:51 AM
Dvideo, et al,

There are laws against "Grey Market" software in many countries. It is illegal in the UK to import and sell software intended for sale elswhere. Recent court cases there have decided that if the license agreement imposes restrictions on where the software may be used then that is a reasonable condition.

As to free software, there are many excellent programs available, with no strings attached. There is also an utter plauge of scamware out there. Many "free" programs masquerade as something useful but contain hidden functionality. They may pop up ads, snoop on what you do online and report it back to someone or worse. There is a company (I won't mention names here, e-mail me if you want more details) that provides a "free" program that puports to speed up your dialup connection. Can't be done. What it does do is hijack Internet Explorer. It redirects all of your internet surfing through their proxy servers. This means they can see everything you do while online including encrypted sessions such as online banking and shopping, credit card numbers, everything. If you can figure out who they actually are (I have) and find their "privacy policy" they state that they DO collect personally identifiable information, they DO share it with third parties of their choosing. This sort of scam is known as a "Man in the middle" attack.

I spend a great deal of time (and it makes me money) cleaning up peoples computers. A lot of this software trash is designed to be unremovable and some make permanent changes to Windows that will cause the OS to break if the scamware is removed.

If you are looking for free software look for software published under the GNU Public License. You can be sure that it is what it purports to be and does not contain hidden functionality. Examples are POV-RAY, Open Office, XITAMI Web Server, Mercury Mail Transport, Firebird web browser and many others. I use Astrostack, Cartes du Ciel, Scope Designer and a variety of excellent programs from AnalogX. There are hundreds of really good free programs out there. There is no need to steal software if you can't afford to buy.

I run a web server with a dozen commercial and hobby web sites and the only paid product on those computers is Windows. The Web server, FTP server, Mail server, Firewall, Log analyzer, Network monitor, Virus checker and Backup program are all excellent freeware.

GNU software is often much better and more stable than commercial software since the source code is available for inspection. You can be sure that if any back doors or other dirty business is in there it will be found. Therefore, it isn't there in the first place. My webservers run 24/7 and don't crash. The backup server has been running for over a year without being rebooted.

For more on this visit www.gnu.org (http://www.gnu.org) and go to their Free Software Directory.

Ian B
10-20-2003, 12:40 PM
Evan,

You mentioned open office - just for general info, open office often seems to be able to open spreadsheets that Excel regards as corrupted and unopenable. Saved my bacon.

http://www.openoffice.org/

Ian

dvideo
10-20-2003, 01:29 PM
I suppose it would be a good idea to set up a web page somewhere with a list of really useful machinists programs. I know some people have done so, but It might need a different spin...

Jerry

John Stevenson
10-20-2003, 02:22 PM
Does anyone know what the policy is on distributing software that has been issued as free at some point.
The two I have in mind are the original Intellicad 2000 which isn't crippled and Solid Edge Origin which again was a free issue and it's hardly crippled.

Not naming any programs but we were send a demo CD once of a $5,000 plus program for evaluation.
When we looked at the files on the CD they had included the licence.dat file for the full commercial version.
I posted this on a group I used to be on, again naming no names and two companies contacted me to see if it was theirs.
It wasn't either but it makes you wonder how often this happens.

Thank you Mr XXXXX pity it didn't suit us, it would have saved us a lot of money http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

John S

Evan
10-20-2003, 02:49 PM
John,

In almost all cases the permitted uses and distribution rights will be clearly spell out in the EULA (End User License Agreement). If it does not explicitly grant you the right to distribute the software or it does not clearly state that the software is placed in the public domain then you should assume that you are not permitted to distribute it. Just because software may be free does not mean it is public domain. The owner of the copyright retains the rights over how it may be distributed. Also, the owner of the copright retains "Moral Copyright" which is a right to impose restrictions on how the software may be used, in particular, the right to restrict it's use if such use might impugn the author's reputation in some way.

An example of truly free software is anything available from John Walker ( http://www.fourmilab.ch/ ). He is the original developer of Autocad. All the software on his site is explicitly free and he grants you the right to do whatever you wish with it with no conditions whatsoever.

sch
10-20-2003, 02:54 PM
DVideo: one such site is Marvin Klotz compendium: www.geocities.com/mklotz.geo (http://www.geocities.com/mklotz.geo)
Steve

wierdscience
10-20-2003, 10:28 PM
When I first got my computer I was a complete novice and I still don't and probibly never will know all there is to know,but boy am I glad people like Dell are out there,I have been picked on a ridiculed for royal for using licensed software and for buying a factory "put together system",but when ever I have needed service or have needed a patch its been there.

I got a friend who has a jerry-rigged system,runs only pirated software,and shareware,hes constantly off line,hes constantly got program problems and so on,My machine had a e-mail virus once,it came with Norton and once a year I pay them for a renewal and I always get updates,he asks me how I got mine updated,I said simple-I PAID FOR IT!Its their job its what they do for a living,I don't have their education or their equipment so how do I expect to do their job as good as they can? Bottom line I take my brain surgery to a brain surgeon!

The couple of times when I really got lost on my computer the good techs at Dell bailed me out,I figure the few extra bucks I paid was well worth it.

The Norton update cost me I think $28.00!Big deal,I value my own time at $15.00 and hour,so if I sit here and scratch my head trying to figure out whats wrong for oh say 6 hours then what have I gained?

The stupidest most idiotic thing I ever witnessed was a guy I know(not a friend)who went all over town,all over his work place and asked everbody for a bootleg of a lousey stationary program,he got one from somebody,went home loaded it and crashed his system,he could have went to wally world and bought a five times better licensed product for $24.95 and had NO PROBLEMS!You know I as remember bootleg programs don't usually have an uninstall feature http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Evan
10-20-2003, 11:15 PM
Wierd,

No need to pay for antivirus software. An excellent free program with free updates is available at www.grisoft.com (http://www.grisoft.com) AVG Antivirus, free edition. Norton slows down the computer way too much.

wierdscience
10-20-2003, 11:35 PM
Evan,I'll still run Norton,but it won't hurt to add it to my arsenal anyway will it?

Evan
10-21-2003, 01:00 AM
Wierd,

It's not a good idea to run two antivirus programs on the same computer at the same time. They may interfere with each other and at the least will slow it down even more. AVG has no noticable impact on performance whereas, in my experience, Norton can slow it down by 10 to 20 percent.

John Stevenson
10-21-2003, 04:11 AM
Evan,
Ae you correct with your 10 to 20% figure?
I ran Norton AV a while ago and mine just crawled. I was advised to get Norton system works to check the machine out and optimise it but this just made it go slower and I mean sloooooow.
Finally got all that off, found AVG from Grisoft and never looked back.

I bought a computer to use not to keep checking it. It's a bit like buying a new truck and keep pulling it down to see how it works.

The reason I asked the earlier question on free software was that I have legitimate [ to me ] copies of Intellicad and Solid Edge origin.
As neither of these expire and are very good for home, non commercial use I wondered what the position would be if I was asked to copy one and pass it on. After all if that person had asked at the time they could also have got a free copy.

John S.

[This message has been edited by John Stevenson (edited 10-21-2003).]

Oso
10-21-2003, 08:57 AM
We use norton at work, on a networked setup (150 + computers). I have it on mine.

Mine runs quite fast, doing engineering work, so Norton can't be the only problem if its that slow. Norton WILL use every unused processor cycle, just look at the system monitor with everything idle and norton "on" vs "off".

Mine is set up to check everything checkable, BTW. I lost some HDs in the bad old days, and I want to be done with that noise.

Evan
10-21-2003, 11:30 AM
John,

The 10 to 20% figure is for newer machines and varies according to configuration. If you have a Win 9X machine there is a neat little Microsoft utility call Wintop that will show you what each process is using. Get it here: http://www.dewassoc.com/support/useful/wintop.htm

As far as giving away copies of software that was originally free; As I said before, if you are being nit picky legal as I must be since I own a computer store, then you are bound by the terms the author had set. Copyright law is very easy to understand as it is written to permit easy translation into the many languages of the signatories of the Berne Convention on Copyright. Copyright law is totally one sided. All the rights reside with the creator of a work or the entity that paid him to create it. There are a few "Fair Use" exceptions but in no case does Fair Use permit distribution of a complete work. Copyright exists at the time of creation of a work and there is no need or requirement to register a copyright although registering gives certain legal advantages in an infringement action. The onus is entirely upon the person who wishes to copy something for distribution to determine if it is permitted.

Realistically, if the software was distributed at large without charge the copyright owner would have no chance trying to pursue an action against someone who distributed the work further for free.

Incidentally although the Business Software Alliance would like you to believe that copying software for no gain is theft, it is not. A recent case went to the US Supreme court and the court decided it is not theft but infringement. This is a significant difference. In the case of theft it is a criminal matter. In the case of infringement it is a civil matter which the copyright holder must enforce, not the police. Selling pirated copies is an entirely different matter and may incur customs violations, fraud charges and other charges.

wierdscience
10-21-2003, 07:13 PM
Talk about getting sued,my very ISP when they first opened up had MS sue them because one of the girls that worked there accidently gave away a copy of some of their software,when it got out copies began to fan out all over town and they had to agree to trackdown every single copy that was made or else,eventually they cleared everything up and settled the case out of court.

jfsmith
10-22-2003, 02:31 PM
If you want software for less, look at taking a course at local college or university, the generally have student pricing on software, which can be a big break for most people. Autocad in the real world is sveral thousands of dollars, at university it's a few hundred.

Cracked software is illegal and it disrespects the guys (and gals) who put many hours, days, weeks and months into developing a good product.

Don't get caught with this stuff on your computer!

Hellbender
10-22-2003, 02:39 PM
Evan--What do you think of the McAffee Version? I just bought it the other day for my 2 office (networked) and 1 home system.

I looked at the AVG version just now (briefly) and it stated it is not for networked computers.

Thanks,
HB

Evan
10-22-2003, 03:33 PM
I don't like McAffee. Too slow also. AVG works fine on networked computers. What they mean is that the free version cannot scan a computer over the network, you have to install it on each machine.
-----
I had a look at their site and they state that "IT CAN NOT BE INSTALLED IN ANY NETWORKED ENVIRONMENT!".

Now, I'm not sure if they are saying "you aren't allowed" or "it won't work". It does work, so I assume they mean "you are not allowed".


[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 10-22-2003).]

Evan
10-22-2003, 07:01 PM
BTW, the imposition of a license restriction such as "IT CAN NOT BE INSTALLED IN ANY NETWORKED ENVIRONMENT!" is unenforceable. Not just for practical reasons but legal reasons too. A lot of the restrictions imposed in license agreements have never been tested in a court case and for good reason. It is likely that these sort of restrictions will be tossed by a court.

In this case it is particularly unenforceable as any computer connected to the internet is in a "networked environment"

Hellbender
10-22-2003, 10:54 PM
Evan,
Thank you for the info, I may give it a try when my year of McAffee is up.

HB

Oso
10-22-2003, 11:49 PM
Well, Evan and I are gonna disagree again...

I have Norton at work, and have seen no slow-down.

I have McAfee at home as I write, and I have seen no slowdown here either after installing it.

In both places the settings are set to essentially "attack dog", in that all the scanning possible is set up.

And, I am quite happy with them, as in combo with Zonealarm Pro (not the bogus freeware version) they have prevented several baddies from entering the system.

I guess it just depends...maybe a fast disk is making the problem go away.

BTW, this computer has a Celeron "800mHz", not the full chip, so it should be worse than most...it ain't.

Evan
10-22-2003, 11:56 PM
Oso,

If you have the version of McAfee with the "screen scan" feature (under screen saver settings) make sure it is turned off. Just about the dumbest "feature" I have ever seen. The hard drive never gets to rest.

If you are happy with the performance, fine. I can tune a PC so that my customers say WOW! Trouble with that is a lot of them were about to buy a new one 'cause they were so fed up with the performance of the old one.

Thrud
10-23-2003, 12:52 AM
Evan

I have to disagree as well. I run Systemworks 2004 and cannot even notice a slowdown (until some knob attacks my computer). It does not even slow down real power sucking games like UT 2003 or Quake 3 Arena @ 1600x1280 res - but then I don't use Intel chips in my computer - just good stuff! http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//tongue.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Evan
10-23-2003, 12:55 AM
I can't remember the last time I sold an Intel processor. Sorry, but I see serious perfomance hits with Norton. Also the Norton uninstaller doesn't. Also, the latest version of systemworks isn't compatible with Outlook Express. HUH??

Thrud
10-23-2003, 01:37 AM
Evan:
... Also the Norton uninstaller doesn't.

****************************************
Boy, you got that one right. That really pisses me off. I had to edit the registry to get rid of a few imploded Norton installs on friends computers.

I find the best method is to "Ghost" the whole system back on - faster, far less annoying. One of my friends is a compete computer retard and constantly loads conflicting programs and what not on his computer (willy nilly like).

I have been planning on buying a 300Gb Maxtor to back up my RAID drives - I have given up on tape as I can't justify an AIT-2 drive and DLT is just as ridiculous price wise - even wholesale.


[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 10-23-2003).]

Evan
10-23-2003, 01:48 AM
Yeah, after an uninstall then you search the registry for the couple of hundred remaining references to Symantec etc.

300GB, serial ATA or USB 2.0 I presume. I love storage capacity. BUT, I have 5 outbuildings and maybe a couple of gigapieces of junk and I can't find "it" when I need "it". How in hell am I going to find what I have on a terabyte drive? Exabyte? Petabyte? I think I'll retire from this business in about ten years when maybe they finally develop a real AI than can whisper in my ear "That's your wife, you had eggs for breakfast, just the way you like them".

dvideo
10-23-2003, 01:50 AM
My home network is out of control... Video files do it to you... almost 1200G and it does not feel like too much space. To backup, I cross store images on different drives. How do you reasonably archive?

--jr

Evan
10-23-2003, 02:00 AM
Same way. Batch file that runs at night, copying gigabytes from one computer to another.