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View Full Version : Are Grizzly and HF 6" Tool Grinders The Same Machine ?



EddyCurr
02-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Does anyone know (or care to speculate) if the Grizzly H7762
Heavy-Duty Tool Grinder (http://grizzly.com/products/Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder/H7762) the same machine as the HF
46727-0VGA 1/2 HP 6" Tool Grinder (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46727).

Although the Grizzly is essentially unobtainable for me here
above the border, I am curious about the price premium.

A recent thread about the HF


HF 6" Tool Grinder - Owner Satisfaction ? (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=39410)
.

lane
02-01-2010, 09:22 PM
Wrathed they are the same are not who knows. But they are made in china for sure. My guess from what I under stand about Grizzly is it is probably the better on . But I would think it would cost more. I much prefer Baldor.

Tony Ennis
02-01-2010, 09:23 PM
Today, maybe.
Tomorrow, who knows?

That's one of the problems of Chicom import tools.

Hell, tomorrow the Grizzly tool may not be the same as the Grizzly tool!

EddyCurr
02-01-2010, 09:35 PM
Yes, the Baldor 1/2 HP 6" Tool and Carbide Grinder is a very nice piece.

The current model (115V/1Ph) is the 522: $1,400 list and about $950
street. Plus freight.

As mentioned in the other thread, I came across some used Baldor
and Delta machines in the $400-500 range. The private ones were
local pick-up only.

.

wierdscience
02-01-2010, 10:28 PM
The fit and finish on the Grizzly is a little better,a guy I know one town over has one and likes it.KBC also sells a similar unit all are basically the same.

I have a HF unit,used it a couple hours Saturday.It's mounted on a Baldor stand(sacrilege I know)the Baldor stand had a Baldor grinder on it with a burnt motor(long story)anyway I still have a box full of Baldor parts and in comparing it to the HF grinder they are nearly exact copies with the exception of screw threads.

From having used both Baldor and HF/chicom I will say that Baldor is better,but not $700 better.The table trunnion brackets on the HF model I have are actually heavier and better made than the ones off the old Baldor,both are ZAMAC diecast.

Geez,I see KBC Canada is charging $500 for they're version:eek: You guys are getting hosed!

Black_Moons
02-01-2010, 11:05 PM
The fit and finish on the Grizzly is a little better,a guy I know one town over has one and likes it.KBC also sells a similar unit all are basically the same.

Geez,I see KBC Canada is charging $500 for they're version:eek: You guys are getting hosed!

Thats nothing! its NOT THE SAME VERSION AT ALL!
things wrong with this version that the grizzly/HF version does not have wrong with them (the grizzly version might as well BE a baldor with a crappyer motor)

the KBC version has: no spout on the water cup, no way to secure it in place, no reverse switch, no starter relay, an undersized starting cap due to no starting relay (to prevent burning out the starting coil an undersized cap must be used and can not be replaced with bigger without buying a starting relay to match or ADDING a centrafugal switch), 30+ second spinup times where it draws over 15A and is likey to blow *DETICATED* 15A brakers before spining up, No way to mount a diamond wheel on the right hand side without drilling/taping, No way to get the table within 3/4" of a diamond or CBN wheel because the GIANT HEX NUT that keeps the wheel on will HIT the table, no way to rewire the motor to reverse due to aformentioned lack of starting relay. Etc. I ran out of space on thier 'reasons for return' form when I returned my peice of crap KBC import grinder! And thats what we get for $500, what a ripoff!

If I sound bitter about it, THATS BECAUSE I AM! Nobody else in canada sells the damn things from what I can tell, And I don't wanna pay freight charges from horror freight just to find out I gotta return the grinder cause of runout or it being smashed or some other horror freight issue.

So far, I don't use any (of my 30 peice set!!!) brazed carbide because I can't sharpen them, dispite spending $130 on a diamond wheel that I still own (someday i'll just BUILD a mount for it.)
Iv bought a $180 belt/disk sander for my HSS, Zircona FTW. Its got the table for angles but blah, hardly even needed, I can do even threading bits to light tight against the fishtail angles on my belt sander freehand with some hand diamond fileing afterwards to get the last few tenths of a degree. Just have to keep checking it against the fishtail gage as you grind and adjusting what side of the bit you apply the most pressure to, the flat you ground on the bit basicly aligns itself to the belt

Dr Stan
02-01-2010, 11:33 PM
try using the following for a google search:

"carbide grinder": site:craigslist.org

a few months ago I found a like new Baldor near Cleveland Ohio for $500.

A couple of things to remember when using this technique.

1) If you have multiple words in the search topic like this one use the quotes. This combines the search term into one with Bolian search techniques.

2) There are two spaces between the first colon and the word "site".

Sharpshootermb
02-02-2010, 12:49 AM
Black Moons, I like several others use the horror fright grinder. I had to tinker with the tables and the tilt mechanism to get it working nicely but other than that it has worked well enough. I removed one of the poor green wheels that comes with the unit and replaced with a white oxide wheel from KBC for HSS bits. It works well enough. I dont know how far you are from a U.S. customs port. If you were close enough you could have it shipped to an american address. That is what I did and it saves you some coin.

Weird, That grinder is not the only thing that we are getting hosed on by KBC as far as pricing goes. I have spent some time looking at comparable items on their Canadian site and U.S. site and I can tell you that the price difference is signifigant. Lots more than just exchange. I talked to them about this and did not get far. Basically they say order from the U.S. site then and ship to U.S. address.

As I reside just 16 miles from the border I can have shipped to U.S. Address and pick up in the U.S.

Paul Alciatore
02-02-2010, 02:38 AM
I am not familiar with this particular machine, but I have been in both showrooms, Grizzly and HF. I would never, NEVER buy any machine tool from HF. I have purchased several from Grizzly and have not been disappointed on any of them. Need I say more.

Don't get me wrong, Grizzly stuff is all imported, just like HF stuff, could even come from the same factories, but they just seem to do a much better job of QC. And you do pay more for it.

Abner
02-02-2010, 08:13 AM
I just bought the HF 6". So far...I like it for sharpening drill bits, haven't tried it on end mills or boring bars. The weight of the machine is nice at dampening vibration (110lbs). I haven't looked at the others because at $116.00 US I really didn't think I would find much even close. I'm sure I got what I paid for.
I plan to build/rebuild the tables or make jigs for quicker change-up and more accuracy. So far so good...

Abner
02-02-2010, 08:16 AM
I just looked at the picture of the grizzly. Looks 100% identical to me, tables, mitre, table adjustments, water can, even including paint color.

Black_Moons
02-02-2010, 08:33 AM
Its mainly the 100lbs weight that gives it the quality IMO. I wonder where I can get 200lbs+ of material to clamp my bench grinder to for cheap. :P

I would never cross the boarder to pick stuff up from the USA, even though I live near it. Not worth my freedom for a lousy grinder.

Sharpshootermb
02-02-2010, 08:44 AM
Black Moons

You mentioned you would never cross the border to pick up things in The U.S. as it was not worth your freedom.

I was not suggesting anything ilegal. Just that when you ship things with a common carrier from the U.S. to Canada it is much more costly. When I have things shipped that way you just do the paperwork at the port coming back, that is all I was implying.

I see now as well that grizzly will ship some things to Canada as well.

Black_Moons
02-02-2010, 09:09 AM
Sharpshootermb: Why do you assume I have to do (or even be accused of/charged with) something illegal to lose my freedom in the USA?
Long rant short: I refuse to fly (commericaly) and I refuse to enter the USA for any reason whatsoever. Sorta like how you would'nt go to north korea on principle.. And because the land mines might blow you up for no reason..

gnm109
02-02-2010, 12:24 PM
Sharpshootermb: Why do you assume I have to do (or even be accused of/charged with) something illegal to lose my freedom in the USA?
Long rant short: I refuse to fly (commericaly) and I refuse to enter the USA for any reason whatsoever. Sorta like how you would'nt go to north korea on principle.. And because the land mines might blow you up for no reason..


Well, I personally am greatly relieved to hear that you will not be visiting us any time soon. If you were to do so, we would have to evict at least one of our illegal immigrants.

Can you imagine the paperwork when having to temporarily remove one of the illegals from the welfare rolls and get them all new papers when they come back the following week?

So, thanks. You've saved us a lot of trouble.

By the way, I suggest you rethink your invideous comparison of the U.S. to North Korea. If you agree to cease and desist, I shall refrain from ever making any comparison of Canada to some third-World country such as say Nicaragua or El Salvador, as you have done with the U.S.A.
But I mean this in a nice way.......:)

Returning to the thread, Grizzly does a nice job of packaging their machines. They are for the most part identical to other machines. In the case of the tool grinder, they are probably built in the same factory to slightly different specifications. In any case, Grizzly does provide some warranty and they do have parts for their machines but they do charge quite a bit more for the privilege. I guess you can get parts for H.F. tools but I've not yet found out how.

quasi
02-02-2010, 01:12 PM
Sharpshootermb: Why do you assume I have to do (or even be accused of/charged with) something illegal to lose my freedom in the USA?
Long rant short: I refuse to fly (commericaly) and I refuse to enter the USA for any reason whatsoever. Sorta like how you would'nt go to north korea on principle.. And because the land mines might blow you up for no reason..

In other words you are a draft dodger from the 60's, or you have a criminal record?

EddyCurr
02-02-2010, 01:16 PM
try using the following for a google search:

"carbide grinder": site:craigslist.org.Thanks for the tip !

.

EddyCurr
02-02-2010, 01:20 PM
I see now as well that Grizzly will ship some things to Canada as well.Can you elaborate?

When I spoke to them some time ago, I was advised that my options
were to pick purchases up myself or make arrangements to have them
forwarded by a commercial or private US party.

.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 01:37 PM
I still have a box full of Baldor parts and in comparing it to the HF grinder they are nearly exact copies with the exception of screw threads.

From having used both Baldor and HF/chicom I will say that Baldor is better,but not $700 better.The table trunnion brackets on the HF model I have are actually heavier and better made than the ones off the old Baldor,both are ZAMAC diecast.

I want some of what you're smoking Darin! :)

I have the HF toolgrinder, and a friend has the Baldor 500 it was copied from, and my HF is a joke in comparison. I haven't seen a HF that wasn't badly unbalanced out of the box, and needed the backplates, plate spud and shaft turned-down to fix it. If you use a thick AO wheel, you can dress the hell of of it and get it to turn smoothly, but you can't run a diamond wheel on the HF grinder without either extensively modifying it or shimming the hell out of the backplate.

The table mount on the HF is atrocious -- it falls apart if you loosen the nuts enough to change the angle. The Baldor table is much better.

Then there's the Chinese motor, which is roughly wound, not varnished, unbalanced, and has cheap bearings. I replaced the bearings on mine with NSK 6204's, and it made a huge difference.

Another case of "You get what you pay for", although I don't think you get $700 worth with the Baldor, but I'd say it's worth at least 3 times as much (i.e., $400 - $500).

The best deal is if you can find a used Baldor 500. They last forever. I've been looking for one for a long time, but they're in such high demand that they sell instantly. If you see one, grab it!

Sharpshootermb
02-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Black Moons, my apologies, I was not inferring anything on your part. Sorrry if it came off that way. Point taken.

Eddy, I had actually inquired with Grizzly re one of their new "gunsmith" lathes. I think the G0709. They had emailed me back about it and when it is in stock they will advise me on shipping costs etc. I have not comitted to buying as of yet and was just in the quote stage. It did not sound like it was going to be a problem. But there again I have not purchased yet either. I too thought the same that in years past they wont ship to Canada.

I was in contact with Quality Machine tools as well. He will ship direct to me or to a friends company in North Dakota. My choice he says. Seems like a decent sort.

Black_Moons
02-02-2010, 10:30 PM
I wasent born yet to dodge a draft in the 60's, But the fact you'd run around snatching teenagers off the streets to send off to die in another country is yet another good reason sure. (Well, Except those teenagers that where children of the ones in power who decided to declare a draft) I have no criminal record either.

Actualy, I was refering to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
Where im afforded no rights at the boarder if the guard has 'reasonable suspicion' (Ie, had a bad day, doesnt like how I look, etc)

'while "nonroutine" searches must be supported by "reasonable suspicion".[6] Under this analysis, searches of a traveler's property, including luggage, briefcases, wallets, and other containers are "routine," while searches of a traveler's body, including strip, body cavity and involuntary x-ray searches, are considered "nonroutine."'

Kindly the only person who will ever body cavity search me due to 'reasonable suspicion' will be my doctor, Not a overglorifyed security guard who just got a raise to a 5 digit yearly income after 5 years of good hard work and only tazering 2 innocent people to death (oh im sorry, tazers don't kill people, Excited delirium does!). And the fact anyone even considered this a good idea just boggles my mind and makes me want to stay far, far away.

Why do you americans think that only people legaly kept out of the USA would wish to avoid ever going to the USA? People don't HAVE to go to the USA, and many people I know share my view of not wishing to go to the USA due to its current politics and laws and abandonment of its own constitution.

From what I have read about the laws that have been passed, If you are 'declared' a terrorist (By 'reasonable suspicion', Say.. you have a lathe and mill! clearly you have the ability to make dangerious devices! Why you even made an ammo reloader! only terrorists need ammo!), you can be held indefinately without trial and without any evidence against you, Reguardless of nationality. (IE, Applys to americans as well)

Your goverment has gone absolutely crazy, And they are by far the most likey to endanger your freedom, life and liberty then any terrorist.

I try and keep my long political rants to the OT marked threads, but you attacked me first.

gnm109
02-02-2010, 10:38 PM
I wasent born yet to dodge a draft in the 60's, But the fact you'd run around snatching teenagers off the streets to send off to die in another country is yet another good reason sure. (Well, Except those teenagers that where children of the ones in power who decided to declare a draft) I have no criminal record either.

Actualy, I was refering to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
Where im afforded no rights at the boarder if the guard has 'reasonable suspicion' (Ie, had a bad day, doesnt like how I look, etc)

'while "nonroutine" searches must be supported by "reasonable suspicion".[6] Under this analysis, searches of a traveler's property, including luggage, briefcases, wallets, and other containers are "routine," while searches of a traveler's body, including strip, body cavity and involuntary x-ray searches, are considered "nonroutine."'

Kindly the only person who will ever body cavity search me due to 'reasonable suspicion' will be my doctor, Not a overglorifyed security guard who just got a raise to a 5 digit yearly income after 5 years of good hard work and only tazering 2 innocent people to death (oh im sorry, tazers don't kill people, Excited delirium does!). And the fact anyone even considered this a good idea just boggles my mind and makes me want to stay far, far away.

Why do you americans think that only people legaly kept out of the USA would wish to avoid ever going to the USA? People don't HAVE to go to the USA, and many people I know share my view of not wishing to go to the USA due to its current politics and laws and abandonment of its own constitution.

From what I have read about the laws that have been passed, If you are 'declared' a terrorist (By 'reasonable suspicion', Say.. you have a lathe and mill! clearly you have the ability to make dangerious devices! Why you even made an ammo reloader! only terrorists need ammo!), you can be held indefinately without trial and without any evidence against you, Reguardless of nationality. (IE, Applys to americans as well)

Your goverment has gone absolutely crazy, And they are by far the most likey to endanger your freedom, life and liberty then any terrorist.

I try and keep my long political rants to the OT marked threads, but you attacked me first.


We haven't gone any crazier than the folks in Europe. We were attacked on 9-11-01 and things changed markedly after that. We lost 3,000 people in one day. That made an impression on us and intensified the war on terror. The folks in Europe and UK have had their difficulties as well. It's called terrorism. I presume that you take a newspaper.

As far as I know, any Canadian or US citizen may cross the border either way with a passport and a good record.

.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 11:53 PM
I wasent born yet to dodge a draft in the 60's, But the fact you'd run around snatching teenagers off the streets to send off to die in another country is yet another good reason sure.

That's the price you pay for living in a Democracy -- serving in the military if your country requires. You don't get to choose if you agree with the policy.

Then again, I'm the product of three generations of career Army officers, and my Father survived three tours in Vietnam as a Huey pilot...