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dp
02-02-2010, 01:48 AM
The early reviews are coming in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

We have to wait for the Slate.

oldtiffie
02-02-2010, 02:01 AM
I've seen better "wobbly throwers" chuckin' 'em right here.

aostling
02-02-2010, 02:29 AM
We have to wait for the Slate.

"Hitler" does throw the best wobblies.

On my recent three-week trek across Germany and Belgium I wanted what I thought the iPad was going to be -- a device for reading and composing email, and for storing the 1.5-lb Rough Guide to Belgium I was toting, and one for Germany which I wasn't. Instead I had to rely on (ever scarcer) cyber-cafes, and cope somehow with the German and (worse) French non-QWERTY keyboards.

I was hoping for something about half the weight of the iPad, and with an accessory fold-out keyboard. Now I'm still waiting.

Evan
02-02-2010, 05:17 AM
Have a look at this Allan. It has a touch screen and a virtual keyboard, two memory card slots, wireless and USB and isn't bound to proprietary content formats.

http://www.e-readerfeeder.com/sony-daily-reader-prs900.html

aostling
02-02-2010, 10:07 AM
Have a look at this Allan. It has a touch screen and a virtual keyboard, two memory card slots, wireless and USB and isn't bound to proprietary content formats.


Evan,

That looks promising, but it lacks the one thing I really want in an electronic reader: a color screen. The maps in the Rough Guides are in color, which provides an additional layer of essential information. The Kindle is also monochrome.

I've read that touch typing on an onscreen virtual keyboard is a miserable experience. I haven't tried it, but I can believe it.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 11:17 AM
Have a look at this Allan. It has a touch screen and a virtual keyboard, two memory card slots, wireless and USB and isn't bound to proprietary content formats.

http://www.e-readerfeeder.com/sony-daily-reader-prs900.html

Other than the form-factor, they're very different devices.

The Sony eBook reader, and the Kindle (which is a superior device in many ways) are just eBook readers. The iPad is an ebook reader, a cell phone, and a laptop rolled-up into one. So there's a GSM Sim card, and you're constantly connected to the Internet via AT&T's (miserable) data service.

In theory, the iPad will be a superset of the Sony and Kindle eBook readers: like Kindle you can subscribe to magazines, newspapers and buy books from Amazon. Apple has partnered with the various publishers so students can purchase textbooks for the iPad. But it's also a cell phone, Internet browser, and a platform for iPad apps (presumably, with some kind of Office-compatible suite).

But as noted, the eBook readers use black/white "electronic ink" (E-Ink -- a special purpose ferro-magnetic display) which has very low eye-strain on text compared with a conventional LCD displays.

But the big problem is that the iPad requires a separate phone line -- I called AT&T customer service yesterday, and they said they wouldn't allow you to share the line between a conventional cell phone and the iPad. :rolleyes:

dp
02-02-2010, 11:23 AM
The iPad as I see it is first and foremost a smart terminal for the iStore, iBooks and iTunes. After that I think they didn't give it much thought. It is a second gen iTouch without the camera.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 11:28 AM
The iPad as I see it is first and foremost a smart terminal for the iStore, iBooks and iTunes. After that I think they didn't give it much thought. It is a second gen iTouch without the camera.

Agreed, I was underwhelmed with it as well. I was due for an equipment upgrade with AT&T, and I was waiting for last week's conference to hear news about the 4th gen iPhone (I currently have a 2nd gen). But there wasn't a hint of anything except the iPad, which like you say, is a supersized iPhone :)

So I bought a 3GS, and I'm going to wait 'till WWDC in July and see what Apple launches this year for the next gen iPhone. Rumors are humble: 5 Mpixel camera with a flash, faster processor and more memory. I want a keyboard like the Droid, dammit! :)

By the way, the iPhone OS does support multitasking. I've played around with it in the Objective C SDK. That's why you can listen to MP3's, voicemail and phonecalls while you're surfing. But Apple won't allow 3rd party apps to run simultaneously, for some reason. But that's the Apple way: "Job's Way or the Highway" :D

Evan
02-02-2010, 11:39 AM
Other than the form-factor, they're very different devices.


Yes they are. But the Sony reader comes close to doing what Allan wants. As soon as you make it a multi function device you lose the huge advantage of the reader which is the battery life. The battery life is measured in page turns, not hours and the Sony can do 10,000 page turns on a single charge. The image remains on the screen at all times even when the device is not powered. Depending on how you use it you might get by for a year between battery charges.

The display was orignally developed by Xerox quite a few years ago. Because of the way it works it is nearly impossible to make one like it to display colour, unfortunately. Just making it display gray scale reliably was a major advance.

Any superiority of function that the Kindle has is completely overwhelmed by the tight coupling to proprietary DRM only formats imposed by Amazon. The machine is utterly useless to me in it's present incarnation. The Sony Reader OTH, is looking extremely promising as a portable reference library that I can stuff full of my own pdf documents or even sketches, parts list, shopping lists and images to use to show a moron parts droid what a part looks like.

Evan
02-02-2010, 11:42 AM
But Apple won't allow 3rd party apps to run simultaneously, for some reason. But that's the Apple way: "Job's Way or the Highway"

It goes deeper than that. Apple won't allow any app to run at all that resembles a machine emulator since it is perceived as a threat to the DRM.

dp
02-02-2010, 12:16 PM
Citrix has Windows 7 on the iPad, but of course it's just another smart terminal - Windows is not running native:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=7117

dp
02-02-2010, 12:21 PM
The display was orignally developed by Xerox quite a few years ago. Because of the way it works it is nearly impossible to make one like it to display colour, unfortunately. Just making it display gray scale reliably was a major advance.


Someone clever has created a hybrid that uses epaper technology with flat panel color technology to allow (perhaps badly) some of both worlds. In bright ambient light it uses the black/white display and as the light dims it autoswitches to active display.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/29/pixel-qi-demonstrates-three-mode-3qi-display-merges-e-ink-with/

I think too it's not in production anywhere, yet.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Any superiority of function that the Kindle has is completely overwhelmed by the tight coupling to proprietary DRM only formats imposed by Amazon. The machine is utterly useless to me in it's present incarnation.

Proprietary is good. PDF is proprietary. Apple has made it's empire on proprietary :)

Seriously, Kindle currently has over 45% of the eBook reader marketshare, and Sony less than 30%. That's because Kindle is owned by Amazon and partnered with Barnes and Noble, so you have access to every modern book.

The restricted use of multi-tasking is rumored to limited the reliability impact to the iPhone/iPad. 99% of the iPhone apps are crap, so you really don't want a proliferation of poorly written background apps running, as the Droid users are finding out.

Shame that they can't have a WHQL-type setup for multitasking compliance.

dp
02-02-2010, 12:37 PM
By the way, the iPhone OS does support multitasking. I've played around with it in the Objective C SDK. That's why you can listen to MP3's, voicemail and phonecalls while you're surfing. But Apple won't allow 3rd party apps to run simultaneously, for some reason. But that's the Apple way: "Job's Way or the Highway" :D

There's a lot of multitasking going on on these systems - email, audio, camera, and who know's what. It is probably more like the old TSR programs than preemptive multitasking, though. I'd be surprised to learn there's not a primitive coprocessor to handle the actual audio processing as trashy sound is not normally something you can avoid in an interrupt-driven OS.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 12:42 PM
I'd be surprised to learn there's not a primitive coprocessor to handle the actual audio processing as trashy sound is not normally something you can get avoid in an interrupt-driven OS.

Could be. On the Objective C SDK, you mark the thread object as multi-threaded, so the OS implementation is opaque, but it's certainly possible that they implement it with TSR's.

By the way, all OS's implement preemptive multithreading with timer interrupts. Are you thinking about cooperative threading with yield instructions, or user-level threads?

dp
02-02-2010, 01:03 PM
Could be. On the Objective C SDK, you mark the thread object as multi-threaded, so the OS implementation is opaque, but it's certainly possible that they implement it with TSR's.

By the way, all OS's implement preemptive multithreading with timer interrupts. Are you thinking about cooperative threading with yield instructions, or user-level threads?

There's simple round-robin, and priority scheduler controllers to cite two possibilities. Round-robin requires only a clock or other toggling input. More complexity requires some kind of kernel to manage resources and task priorities. Early Windows (and OS/2) are a bit of a round-robin system owing to the single threaded windows message queue. A misbehaving app could block all other apps and there was nothing the OS could do about it.

Evan
02-02-2010, 01:04 PM
That's because Kindle is owned by Amazon and partnered with Barnes and Noble, so you have access to every modern book.


You may but we don't in Canada. For reasons that have never been clear Amazon doesn't like Canada. Many of the merchants on Amazon.com won't ship to Canada and Amazon.ca is a thin shadow of the US parent. The Kindle isn't available in Canada and doesn't work in Canada unless you go gray market with a US registered device.

RKW
02-02-2010, 01:22 PM
That's hilarious!

If the iPad is so disappointing it is pretty surprising. Apple has been doing a great for years. Wonder how they went so wrong with this one?



The early reviews are coming in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

We have to wait for the Slate.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 01:42 PM
There's simple round-robin, and priority scheduler controllers to cite two possibilities.

That's the threading scheduling policy. You need a timeslice timer to preempt the process/thread and return to the scheduler.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 01:46 PM
The Kindle isn't available in Canada and doesn't work in Canada unless you go gray market with a US registered device.

It was because of the cellular service required to download books, but Kindle is now available in Canada:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/canada-gets-international-kindle-support-no-longer-feels-inferi/
http://ebookreaderpalace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/kindle-canada1.jpg

Bob and Doug McKensie even got one, eh? ;)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/091117-kanada-01.jpg

Evan
02-02-2010, 02:34 PM
If they would open the device to non DRM formats such as RTF, DOC and PDF I would be interested. As it stands it is of no use to me. We will be buying a couple of readers this year but it probably won't be the Kindle.

Ries
02-02-2010, 02:55 PM
People like us are not the target market for the i-pad.
And people like us- tech oriented people with unusual demands who want to see behind the curtain- are, luckily for them, a tiny portion of the market.

Apple will do just fine with the i-pad.

They have sold hundreds of millions of i-pods, and if you back in time and read the computer saavy responses to the i-pod when it came out, all the tech heads thought it was overpriced, hated the DRM aspects, and predicted it would fail.

History has proven them wrong, and will again.

Most people want an appliance, and are HAPPY not to have to know about multitasking, too many choices, or RTF, PDF, and DOC.

And in a year, they will have ironed a lot of the bugs out of the i-pad, upgraded it, and lowered the price, just as they have with product after product.

I may even end up buying one- I want an email reader/ web surfer/ with a full size screen, that will connect wirelessly for when I travel.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 06:21 PM
If they would open the device to non DRM formats such as RTF, DOC and PDF I would be interested. As it stands it is of no use to me. We will be buying a couple of readers this year but it probably won't be the Kindle.

You can't have an eBook reader without DRM. Kindle and the Sony eBook reader both use proprietary DRM formats so that you can buy current releases, but are restricted from distributing them.

If you allowed non-DRM download of books, it would take a millisecond for them to show up on BitTorrent and RapidShare, like the electronic versions of Popular Science, Circuit Cellar, et al do.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 06:26 PM
They have sold hundreds of millions of i-pods, and if you back in time and read the computer saavy responses to the i-pod when it came out, all the tech heads thought it was overpriced, hated the DRM aspects, and predicted it would fail.

I don't remember any "Tech Heads" that criticized the iPod went it was released. I have one of the very first Gen1 IPods, and many of the guys at Intel and Nvidia had them too. It was, and remains, overpriced -- everything Apples sells is overpriced. But the interface (with the jog wheel) was extremely well-done.

Also, the iPod itself doesn't require DRM. In fact, 99.999% of the music most people have on their iPod's isn't copy protected. iTunes are DRM'd in AAC, because you're buying the content from Apple.

Personally, I don't think the iPad will do well, and I'm the target demographic.

Ries
02-02-2010, 07:49 PM
here ya go- MacRumors from 2001-
read some of the comments-
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500

The first ipods, and I had one, were expensive, clunky, and didnt hold much music.
But they have improved by leaps and bounds.

Between me and my kids, we have owned one or more of most of em, over the years. I carry mine with me most days, with 8000 or so songs on it, from car to car to shop to house to office.

My basic point is that apple will inevitably refine this, too, and make it cheaper, better, and more usable.
I would not buy one now- but in 2 or 3 generations, they are going to be handy and reasonably priced for what they do, and I might buy one then.

But I still say, for most people who JUST want email, websurfing, and ebooks, it will work fine as is, and will sell.

Evan
02-02-2010, 08:25 PM
You can't have an eBook reader without DRM. Kindle and the Sony eBook reader both use proprietary DRM formats so that you can buy current releases, but are restricted from distributing them.

You are missing the point Robert. The Kindle ONLY supports DRM formats and none of the open formats except plain text. The Sony Readers support DRM formats and a wide range of open formats.

Kindle supports only

.AZW (Kindle-specific)
.TXT
.MOBI; and
.PRC.


Sony supports:

DRM-free Text: BBeB Book (LRF), PDF, TXT, RTF, ePub.

DRM-protected Text: BBeB Book (LRX); Secure PDF and ePub.

Audio: MP3 and DRM-free AAC

Image: JPEG, GIF, PNG, and BMP

Weston Bye
02-02-2010, 08:39 PM
I seem to remember Amazon reaching out and yanking back a book out of the Kindles - some legal issue. I find the possibility of such external control repugnant. For that reason, as well as the features Evan describes I would favor the Sony.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 08:52 PM
I seem to remember Amazon reaching out and yanking back a book out of the Kindles - some legal issue. I find the possibility of such external control repugnant. For that reason, as well as the features Evan describes I would favor the Sony.

Sony does the exact same thing. When you buy a book through the Sony eBook store, and it's downloaded via a DRM system in BBeB, which is Sony's proprietary DRM, and the user agreement you sign authorizes Sony to remotely and retroactively pull the license.

Evan: Kindle supports PDF.

dp
02-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Evan: Kindle supports PDF.

None of them (eBooks) show PDFs in color. Is it even possible to load a PDF onto a Kindle with your PC?

lazlo
02-02-2010, 09:38 PM
None of them (eBooks) show PDFs in color. Is it even possible to load a PDF onto a Kindle with your PC?

Kindle added PDF support in the 2.2 firmware, and they're up to 2.3. They've always had support for text, .doc, and the various image formats.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=pe_13700770_txt_1/?nodeId=200324680

Built-in PDF reader: Your Kindle can now display PDF documents without losing the formatting of the original file. Send PDF documents directly to your Kindle (via your @Kindle address) or drag and drop PDF files from your computer to your Kindle (when connected via USB).

By the way, here's a comparison from Wired of the two units. Several guys at work have the Kindle 2. It's kinda cool -- they get the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Wired, and The Economist wired directly, but it's big and bulky, so not my thing:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/showdown-kindle/
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2009/02/09/kindle2vssonyreader.jpg

The browser on the Kindle is really primitive -- it's a text-based browser that reminds me a lot of Lynx.

Evan
02-02-2010, 09:42 PM
Kindle II supports PDF. The original Kindle does not. If you want to load your own data you have to e-mail it to Amazon and they will convert it to their proprietary format and send it back. I don't think so.

That comparison is incorrect. They have the wrong model for that price. For the stated price you get the Sony Reader Daily Edition that has wireless, a larger screen with 2 page mode, around 1.5 gig ram, audio and other features including a leather book style jacket.



and the user agreement you sign authorizes Sony to remotely and retroactively pull the license.


Exactly how do they do that? The Sonys are not connected to anything and you can keep it that way by transferring your data via memory card. The Kindle is always online which makes direct access by Amazon possible.

Incidentally the Kindle 2 battery life is about seven days. The Sonys are good for however long it takes you to read 10,000 pages.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 09:54 PM
The first ipods, and I had one, were expensive, clunky, and didnt hold much music.
But they have improved by leaps and bounds.

The iPods haven't changed form factor -- from the 1st Gen iPod to the current 6th Gen Ipod Classic, they're exactly the same height and width (the case got slightly thinner over time). The big changes were the size of the hard drive, from 5 GB on the 1st Gen in 2001 to 160 GByte on the current model. The screen improved a lot over time, obviously, but the interface (jog wheel) is exactly the same.

They added Mini's, Nano's, Shuffles, and iTouch's over time, obviously.

lazlo
02-02-2010, 09:57 PM
If you want to load your own data you have to e-mail it to Amazon and they will convert it to their proprietary format and send it back.

No. There's a USB interface, and you can drag and drop files directly to the Kindle.

By the way, Kindle 2 has been out over a year, and they've since launched the successor -- the Kindle DX. The DX is more comparable to the Sony Daily Edition, but the touchscreen on the Sony Daily Reader is a disaster (the capacitive overlay adds a great deal of glare, making it very hard to read), and Sony is redesigning a new model without the touchscreen.

http://lonewolflibrarian.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/kindle-dx-e-reader-vs-sony-e-reader-daily-edition-12-11-09/

Kindle DX Vs Sony Reader Daily Edition - Kindle DX advantages

1. A much larger screen at 9.7″.
2. Better prices on eBooks thanks to Kindle Store.
3. Free Internet.
4. Free Wikipedia.
5. Better usability.
6. Read To Me text to speech feature.

Kindle DX Vs Sony Reader Daily Edition – Sony Advantages

The Daily Edition has some advantages of its own -

1. $90 cheaper than new Kindle DX (same price as refurbished Kindle DX).
2. Library Finder to get Library eBooks.
3. ePub support.
4. Better PDF support.
5. Touchscreen and drawing.
6. Memory Card Slots.
7. Replaceable Battery.



Exactly how do they do that? The Sonys are not connected to anything and you can keep it that way by transferring your data via memory card. The Kindle is always online which makes direct access by Amazon possible.

You have to sync DRM content through the USB port via PC software. The moment you sync the Sony eBook reader, they can pull the license, just like Kindle does.

There's no free ride on DRM distribution.

Evan
02-02-2010, 10:15 PM
but the touchscreen on the Sony Daily Reader is a disaster (the capacitive overlay adds a great deal of glare, making it very hard to read),

Don't believe everything you read Robert.

This isn't a Sony promo shot.

http://ixian.ca/pics7/sonydr.jpg

http://semiconductorgeek.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a572696f970c.jpg

lazlo
02-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Don't believe everything you read Robert.

This isn't a Sony promo shot.

Yes, it is. You have to seen one in person, and not surf the web for it Evan :)

Go to BestBuy (or FutureShop in Canada) and use one in the store. The touch-screen overlay is terrible. The original Sony eBook reader has a vastly better display, because they don't have a semi-opaque touch-screen overlay on it.

dp
02-02-2010, 10:24 PM
I'm thinking of starting another thread called Kindle just to see if it will morph into a thread about iPads ;)

lazlo
02-02-2010, 10:31 PM
I'm thinking of starting another thread called Kindle just to see if it will morph into a thread about iPads ;)

LOL! The overall sentiment is that eBook readers have not been the success that everyone hoped -- there were only 500,000 Kindles sold in 2008, about a million eBook readers sold world-wide in 2009.

Like the iPad, it's a weird form factor, and most people can read non DRM books on their various laptop/cellphone/PDA's they carry anyway...

Evan
02-02-2010, 10:35 PM
Yes, it is. You have to seen one in person, and not surf the web for it Evan

My daughter has one. You know, the one who is a professional photographer and owns a newspaper. I trust her judgement.

dp
02-02-2010, 10:52 PM
Don't believe everything you read Robert.

This isn't a Sony promo shot.



It might be.

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/image_library/images/small/consumer/computer_peripheral/e_book/detail?archive=0&asset_id=41507

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/25/sony-announces-daily-edition-reader/

lazlo
02-02-2010, 10:55 PM
It might be.

http://news.sel.sony.com/en/image_library/images/small/consumer/computer_peripheral/e_book/detail?archive=0&asset_id=41507

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/25/sony-announces-daily-edition-reader/

LOL, would you expect anything different? :)

Seriously, check 'em out at Best Buy. They carry the older Sony Reader with the good screen, and the new Sony Daily Reader with the touchscreen. It was a bad decision, and Sony is rushing a new reader out without the touchscreen, supposedly by Summer.

dp
02-02-2010, 11:09 PM
LOL, would you expect anything different? :)

Yes.


Seriously, check 'em out at Best Buy.

No b&w for me. And if it doesn't run OS X it had better run Unix.

keelan
02-03-2010, 02:47 AM
There's a lot of multitasking going on on these systems - email, audio, camera, and who know's what. It is probably more like the old TSR programs than preemptive multitasking, though. I'd be surprised to learn there's not a primitive coprocessor to handle the actual audio processing as trashy sound is not normally something you can avoid in an interrupt-driven OS.

No, it's true multi-tasking. Audio is always offloaded -- bit-banging a DAC to produce audio is Commodore 64-era technology. Preemptive multitasking is an integral part of the hacked up Mach kernel that is running on Apple's desktop computers as well as their iPhones. It wouldn't make sense to go backwards and use anything different. I work with a number of quite technically inclined people, and they've spouted out the same "it doesn't multitask" line, and it makes me want to but an iPad just to whack them upside the head with it. The things that any modern device needs to do are NOT POSSIBLE without a preemptive multitasking OS hiding in the background. I'm too lazy at the moment to provide a list of reasons why, but it is very safe to say that the iPad and iPhone does multitask, and it multitasks very well; so well, in fact, that you take it for granted.

Evan
02-03-2010, 07:38 AM
bit-banging a DAC to produce audio is Commodore 64-era technology.

The C-64 has a separate audio processor, the 6581 SID chip. It was extremely advanced for the time and was so popular and capable that it is still in use with several versions available for the PC on an internal PCI card.

mochinist
02-03-2010, 08:27 AM
Im getting sick of Sony, between their sh1tty blue ray player that died on me after a year and a month(1 month over warranty of course) and the kids having two playstation 2's die on them in a span of a couple years. I barely even let them play the damn things and they dont last. Then my parents got a sony lcd tv that has had a bunch of problems.

sony=poop

in my book anyways, spend your money however you see fit:p

dp
02-03-2010, 09:19 AM
No, it's true multi-tasking. Audio is always offloaded -- bit-banging a DAC to produce audio is Commodore 64-era technology. Preemptive multitasking is an integral part of the hacked up Mach kernel that is running on Apple's desktop computers as well as their iPhones. It wouldn't make sense to go backwards and use anything different.

I hadn't heard about the Mach kernel in either the iphone or the iPad. If it's there and they don't let the apps take advantage of it then they're definitely off my buy list. What a waste of a good kernel.

As for going backward - Palm and Blackberry are both relatively primitive in this regard. It's a phone or a calculator or an email client or what ever, but not all of them

lazlo
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
A co-worker sent me this MadTV sketch on the iPaq. Hilarious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXrIupo17tY

Falcon67
02-03-2010, 04:15 PM
That clip is a popular backdrop for various scenarios

Possibly NSFW, R for Language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRE17pP1NPA

dp
02-03-2010, 04:39 PM
Today I learned the iPad has these needed features:

Accessories:

dock connector to USB cable <---- Very important!
10W USB Power Adapter and documentation
iPad keyboard dock
iPad case
iPad camera connection kit


Wireless communication:

The Wi-Fi only model comes with Wi-Fi (802.11a/b/g/n)
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR technology


Viewable document types:

.jpg, .tiff, .gif (images)
.doc and .docx (Microsoft Word)
.htm and .html (web pages)
.key (Keynote)
.numbers (Numbers)
.pages (Pages)
.pdf (Preview and Adobe Acrobat)
.ppt and .pptx (Microsoft PowerPoint)
.txt (text); .rtf (rich text format)
.vcf (contact information)
.xls and .xlsx (Microsoft Excel)


This might win me over. My principle need is a portable library for my reference books which are all PDF. Email (using my servers) is a plus.

MuellerNick
02-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Me too thinks that the iPad is a great tool in the shop. Keeping all documents, a calculator, browse the web for documentation etc.

As soon as its available here, I'll certainly have a look at it.


Nick

dp
02-03-2010, 06:08 PM
With Bluetooth NAS (Google it) available you could store a lot of stuff on a flash drive in your pocket.

lazlo
02-03-2010, 06:22 PM
With Bluetooth NAS (Google it) available you could store a lot of stuff on a flash drive in your pocket.

I'd look into that a bit more. The Bluetooth support on the iPhone is hobbled (the iPad feature-list looks like a supersized iPhone) -- audio profile only. I.e., you can't data sync with the blue tooth interface (stupid!).

By the way, did you see my post that AT&T customer service told me that you need to purchase a separate phone line for the iPad? Seems silly that you can't share the Sim card with an existing AT&T phone.

aostling
02-03-2010, 06:34 PM
By the way, did you see my post that AT&T customer service told me that you need to purchase a separate phone line for the iPad?

I must be missing something, I thought the iPad doesn't have a phone.

dp
02-03-2010, 06:49 PM
I'd look into that a bit more. The Bluetooth support on the iPhone is hobbled (the iPad feature-list looks like a supersized iPhone) -- audio profile only. I.e., you can't data sync with the blue tooth interface (stupid!).

It's been really difficult discovering the feature set and where the damn thing is hobbled. So much for more is better.


By the way, did you see my post that AT&T customer service told me that you need to purchase a separate phone line for the iPad? Seems silly that you can't share the Sim card with an existing AT&T phone.

Yeah - that's not a product I'd buy anyway. My phone costs are already stupid expensive.

dp
02-03-2010, 06:50 PM
I must be missing something, I thought the iPad doesn't have a phone.

The telco connection is needed for broadband.

loose nut
02-03-2010, 07:15 PM
Here is a thought.

Most towns have these things called Libraries. You can go and get books and papers or other things and it doesn't cost anything. No aggravation because the memory failed and your books disappeared, no cell charges, no batteries, no incompatible formats, unlimited use and best of all NO DRM.

Try it you'll like it.

danlb
02-03-2010, 07:51 PM
A strange side note...

If you have the iphone or ipad you can run a kindle app that is tied (for free) to your kindle account. You can read the ebooks on either device and it even syncs where you left off reading.

In use: My wife reads every night, and really likes her 1st gen Kindle. We were stuck in a store for an hour and she had nothing to do while I worked with the salesman. I loaned her my iphone and she accessed the book she'd been reading the night before. She was happily entertained while I was busy.

And yes, you can do many formats with the first gen kindle too. My friend converts her public domain e-books to .prc format and has them handy all the time.

Dan

dp
02-03-2010, 08:12 PM
Here is a thought.

Most towns have these things called Libraries. You can go and get books and papers or other things and it doesn't cost anything. No aggravation because the memory failed and your books disappeared, no cell charges, no batteries, no incompatible formats, unlimited use and best of all NO DRM.

Try it you'll like it.

Do they have a bus to ride on, too?

keelan
02-03-2010, 10:18 PM
The C-64 has a separate audio processor, the 6581 SID chip. It was extremely advanced for the time and was so popular and capable that it is still in use with several versions available for the PC on an internal PCI card.

I said C64 era, not C64.

John Stevenson
02-04-2010, 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by loose nut
Here is a thought.

Most towns have these things called Libraries. You can go and get books and papers or other things and it doesn't cost anything. No aggravation because the memory failed and your books disappeared, no cell charges, no batteries, no incompatible formats, unlimited use and best of all NO DRM.

Try it you'll like it.




Do they have a bus to ride on, too?
No need the library is at the bottom of our street, just across from the pub :D

.

Evan
02-04-2010, 04:29 AM
Most towns have these things called Libraries. You can go and get books and papers or other things and it doesn't cost anything. No aggravation because the memory failed and your books disappeared, no cell charges, no batteries, no incompatible formats, unlimited use and best of all NO DRM.


The hot new thing at the libraries is digital books on loan for your digital DRM equipped reader. No need to return the data, it erases itself in three weeks.

winchman
02-04-2010, 05:01 AM
"...the library is at the bottom of our street..."

The bottom of our street is in the middle. But it really shouldn't have a middle, since it's named Bent Oak Circle. But it really shouldn't be named a circle, since one end is a cul-de-sac, the other end is a T-intersection, and they're a half-mile apart.

I know: And your point is....?

Weston Bye
02-04-2010, 06:19 AM
"...the library is at the bottom of our street..."

The bottom of our street is in the middle. But it really shouldn't have a middle, since it's named Bent Oak Circle. But it really shouldn't be named a circle, since one end is a cul-de-sac, the other end is a T-intersection, and they're a half-mile apart.

I know: And your point is....?

Probably no oaks, bent or otherwise, within a mile either.

lazlo
02-04-2010, 10:23 AM
The hot new thing at the libraries is digital books on loan for your digital DRM equipped reader. No need to return the data, it erases itself in three weeks.

I agree -- that is a very cool feature, and I don't think Kindle supports it yet.

As far as paper versus electronic books, am I the only one who still prefers paper?
My daughter's in first grade, and each week they go to the library and pick out books for the week. You'd think they were taking the kids to Disney Land :)

dp
02-04-2010, 10:59 AM
I agree -- that is a very cool feature, and I don't think Kindle supports it yet.

As far as paper versus electronic books, am I the only one who still prefers paper?


Show me paper with back lighting built in so I can read in bed without disturbing my wife and I'll get on board.

Evan
02-04-2010, 11:35 AM
I bet that the e-paper screens are good enough that you can scan them to a PDF. Get it to page turn automatically and time the scans about one per minute with a script and then go do something else for a few hours. DRM? What's that?

dp
02-04-2010, 01:34 PM
I bet that the e-paper screens are good enough that you can scan them to a PDF. Get it to page turn automatically and time the scans about one per minute with a script and then go do something else for a few hours. DRM? What's that?

Just like recording DRM audio - wire to wire, or audio to microphone. You just have to be smarter than the problem.

Kindle - meet the digital camera: http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-High-Speed-Book-Scanner-from-Trash-and-Cheap-C/

philbur
02-04-2010, 01:41 PM
What about the Iphone. Great toy - crappy phone.

Phil:)



That's hilarious!

If the iPad is so disappointing it is pretty surprising. Apple has been doing a great for years. Wonder how they went so wrong with this one?

OldRedFord
02-05-2010, 10:20 AM
It was because of the cellular service required to download books, but Kindle is now available in Canada:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/canada-gets-international-kindle-support-no-longer-feels-inferi/
http://ebookreaderpalace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/kindle-canada1.jpg

Bob and Doug McKensie even got one, eh? ;)

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/091117-kanada-01.jpg


Does it play a Neil Pert drum solo while ejecting freshly cooked back-baken?