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John Stevenson
02-03-2010, 04:25 PM
Got a small 4 cylinder block in to do some work on, it's a French cyclecar made between the war years, hardy something to get excited about but because of this it's the only one left.

In a bit of a sorry state and the block has cracked / corroded away between No 3 bore and one of the valve seats so it's been sent in to be specialist welded.

They have made a nice job of this, very old fashioned firm, only two old guys still there, they heated the block up over about 4 hours and gas welded it with cast iron rods whilst still red hot and then buried in hot ashes for two days to cool. Weld came out mint, good penetration and soft as butter, files just like a piece of continually cast Durabar.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/block1.jpg

The idea was to lob it on the bed of the POS Bridgy and pick the bore up and valve seat and clean up.

Nooooooooooo ???????

Too tall to fit, when the bed is right down the block is just level with the bottom of the spindle with no tooling fitted.

Sooooooooooo ?????

Glue it to the bed by it's arse end and get the bore parallel to the bed with lining bars, DRO's, dial gauges and three cups of coffee and a bacon sandwich [ with mushrooms and black pudding ].

Then stuff the right angled attachment onto the spindle and clock this up parallel to the bed, as measured with a test bar, DRO's, dial gauges and a cup - a - soup [ galvanised iron flavour ] { note to self - self - wash cups again before May }

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/block3.jpg

Thennnnnnnnnnnnn.
Get the centre of the boring bar central into the cylinder but only sweeping round 3/4 of a circle because of the weld.
Take very fine cuts and remove the weld until it just touched the bore.

Reset up on the valve guide as a central point and bore this out and re-cut the seat all from the same setting. Blue the valve seat and just tweak one way a gnats left bollock so it blued up all round.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/block4.jpg


First lick through with the honing stones to see how it's looking, actually looks worse than it is, very slight feel to it on the transition.
A bit of a buff up with a flap wheel and a re-hone should get this a bit better.

Hopefuly this will have saved another one from the knackers yard.

I must admit that the setting up was a pain, started at 2:00pm and this is where it is when i knocked off the go down the pub at 5:00 [ short day today, have to take grandkids shoplifting round Asda on a Wednesday ]

Hardest one pound seven shillings and sixpence I have earn't for a long while. :(

.

RB211
02-03-2010, 04:43 PM
John, a writeup on the setup using the lining bars, etc and getting everything lined up would be greatly appreciated and could be used for many things, like boring steam cylinder castings on a steam locomotive!
Good work.

boslab
02-03-2010, 04:48 PM
Fannytastic job, i wouldent even dare try at the moment, how the hell can you go to ASDA on a Thursday without a visit to the watering hole, you need chain mail ankle guards to prevent trolly rash!
Well done sir John
regards
mark

MTNGUN
02-03-2010, 04:59 PM
I would not have even attempted that project with HSM machines. Leave it to Sir John to figure out how to get it done.

Amazing.

lazlo
02-03-2010, 05:01 PM
The idea was to lob it on the bed of the POS Bridgy and pick the bore up and valve seat and clean up.

John, if I had a nickel for every time you've posted a project on your POS Bridgy... :p

Nice job! I just found the rare right-angle attachment for my Excello, so I'm hoping to play around with it this weekend.

gnm109
02-03-2010, 05:04 PM
For a fellow who doesn't like Bridgeports all that much, you seem to do rather well. That looks like a super job! The weld shows a lot of ability, too. A parent metal weld on cast iron is a real specialty.

Nice work!

Tony Ennis
02-03-2010, 05:27 PM
For a fellow who doesn't like Bridgeports all that much, you seem to do rather well.

Well, ANYONE could do it on a good mill.

dp
02-03-2010, 05:42 PM
I'm just gobsmacked you did not use your Blake coax indicator for all the critical alignments! :p

John Stevenson
02-03-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm just gobsmacked you did not use your Blake coax indicator for all the critical alignments! :p

I'd though about it but I don't think there was enough weld protruding to get a proper reading.:D

.

digr
02-03-2010, 06:14 PM
Nice job! looking at your work makes me feel like someone cutting iron with a hatchet, looks great!

Carld
02-03-2010, 06:29 PM
Nice job John and don't you just love those angle head attachments. I have been putting off getting one for years. This year may be the time I get one.

S_J_H
02-03-2010, 06:51 PM
Kids, this is what it is all about, what separates the men from the boys, be it a labor of love or just another day at the office.
Determination and perseverance with the need to press on no matter how daunting the task at hand...
The imagination to see the final result when others say it can't be done.
To laugh at the hands of defeat!
Failure is not an option!!
To boldly go where no man has gone before!!!
Sir John, this Bud's for you!!!!
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/Bud0674.jpg
:eek: Steve:eek:

Peter.
02-03-2010, 06:59 PM
You left a broken stud in there :D

MickeyD
02-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Very nice work Sir John. Rework like that is always a challenge and the customer never seems to appreciate how much really goes into it.

wierdscience
02-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Nice job as per usual,what's Black Pudding?

Some new brand of gasket glue?:D

camdigger
02-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Hmm Seems a perfect application for line boring had the block not fit in the mill.:D

Still well done J.S.

Kibby
02-03-2010, 08:04 PM
Great job on that setup, John. but... Um... that is a French engine, correct? They actually made an engine worth all that trouble to restore? Another paradigm shattered. ;)

GKman
02-03-2010, 08:22 PM
Engines for Those French cyclecars made between the war years were never machined. The block castings were only hand-filed to size and the passage between the number 3 bore and itís exhaust valve was put there on purpose to keep from blowing the head off above 600 rpm. Do not, under any circumstances, assemble and operate that engine in the condition shown. The first working model was delivered to Cairo in 1935 and was passing directly under the Sphinx nose when it let go. Would you like to add John Stevenson's fingerprints to that sword?

motorworks
02-03-2010, 08:24 PM
John
That's how I have been counter-sinking shoe mould for years
Got to think horizonial :)

JoeLee
02-03-2010, 09:17 PM
I like the way you set up the boaring head with the horizontal arbor adapter. I never had a lot of faith running it that way due to fear that it might snag and jump or nudge the quill a bit. I have only used mine a few times but with the long arbor and support under the beam on the dovetail. I would guess you have to be trammed in dead nuts or you would create a ridge in the cyl. bore since your depth of bore is limited to the head, 2" maybe. I also would assume that you would then have the cylinders all boared on a machine designed for boaring cylinders.

JL...........

recoilless
02-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Reading the blow by...John you made me hungry, as a kid in Indiana(used to be Prince Charles favorite state), I ate a lot of bacon sandwiches and (Liptons cup a soup).

Always glad to see the set-ups people come up with. I can always learn something even if it is just a certain shim or method of securing work to the tabel.

Thanks

A.K. Boomer
02-03-2010, 10:33 PM
Kids, this is what it is all about, what separates the men from the boys, be it a labor of love or just another day at the office.
Determination and perseverance with the need to press on no matter how daunting the task at hand...
The imagination to see the final result when others say it can't be done.
To laugh at the hands of defeat!
Failure is not an option!!
To boldly go where no man has gone before!!!
Sir John, this Bud's for you!!!!
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/Bud0674.jpg
:eek: Steve:eek:



Well said, Nobody on here pulls one like this out of their ass like SJ...

but im with weird -- what the fuqe is black pudding?

Don Young
02-03-2010, 10:50 PM
I really like to see someone repair something "unrepairable" like that! I am impressed with both the welding and the machining. Good job, Sir John!

Robin R
02-03-2010, 10:51 PM
Otherwise known as blood pudding.

TGTool
02-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Otherwise known as blood pudding.

... or Boudin Noir. Has onions, lard, pork fat, cream, eggs. pepper, thyme, bay leaf, fresh pork blood. Stuffed in sausage casings (another interesting item) and poached. Full recipe preparation if required.

I eat vegetarian, but to each his own.

doctor demo
02-03-2010, 11:59 PM
Kids, this is what it is all about, what separates the men from the boys, be it a labor of love or just another day at the office.
Determination and perseverance with the need to press on no matter how daunting the task at hand...
The imagination to see the final result when others say it can't be done.
To laugh at the hands of defeat!
Failure is not an option!!
To boldly go where no man has gone before!!!
Sir John, this Bud's for you!!!!
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/Bud0674.jpg
:eek: Steve:eek:
Nice gesture Steve, but John only drinks that Brit. stuff that has to be pumped into the mug like syrup and then it is pi$$ warm to boot:eek:
All that trouble setting up on the BP, I woulda used My Kenway boring bar and been to the pub an hour earlier.

Steve

A.K. Boomer
02-04-2010, 12:31 AM
... or Boudin Noir. Has onions, lard, pork fat, cream, eggs. pepper, thyme, bay leaf, fresh pork blood. Stuffed in sausage casings (another interesting item) and poached. Full recipe preparation if required.

I eat vegetarian, but to each his own.


My god -- it's a wonder he's still alive...

RichD
02-04-2010, 02:01 AM
John,
You did the job backwards...First you go to the pub,THEN

Setup and bore the holes at 2AM.

Nice job,
Rich

oil mac
02-04-2010, 02:18 AM
Good one Sir John, Thinking outside the box, The geared vertical head, is the only good thing on my rotten Elliot 00 , "O for a Bridgy," I feel a song coming on to the tune, Ofor the wings of a dove,
It was the increased brain cell activity stimulated with the black pudding Wot done it!
All good things come to an end except a black pudding, It has two ends,, Question, What end do you start eating from? Scottish problem.

lakeside53
02-04-2010, 02:21 AM
Hey Sir John.. you missed out posting your photos where you used the Coax indicator for set up:D

John Stevenson
02-04-2010, 03:36 AM
Steve,
Don't have a boring bar but I was seriously considering using the mag drill with the boring head in it at one stage but though it might be a bit too flexable.

Personally I wonder at the lengths some people will go to restore some vehicles but it's not my decision, there is a lot of work required just on this block like valve guides and valves that I know are not going to get fixed so I wonder at the finished effort, like I say it's only a job and you do your best.

.

EVguru
02-04-2010, 04:49 AM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/Bud0674.jpg

That's rented beer!


Try the REAL stuff;

http://www.budweiserbudvar.co.uk/images/product/bigsbig1.jpg http://www.budweiserbudvar.co.uk/images/product/bigs05_darklager_UK.jpg

http://www.budweiserbudvar.co.uk/home.php

Bguns
02-04-2010, 04:51 AM
Neighbor just scored a Kwik Way model FN boring bar complete with all bits for $150.00 14 inch stroke up to 5 21/64 th bore :)

Helped him unload it from his car 232 lbs.

I have the Lathes and Mills, he has the Automotive tooling :)

recoilless
02-04-2010, 05:54 PM
That's rented beer!

Isn't all beer rented? I can't keep it in me long enough to claim it

Alistair Hosie
02-04-2010, 07:31 PM
Is that with v.a.t. or without John ? :D Alistair

TheAndroid
02-05-2010, 11:11 AM
The first working model was delivered to Cairo in 1935 and was passing directly under the Sphinx nose when it let go. Would you like to add John Stevenson's fingerprints to that sword?

This is a joke, yes? The Sphinx's nose has been missing for a looooong time.

On another subject, has anyone built one of those nifty right angle drives? I don't know if anyone makes one for my Zay.

lazlo
02-05-2010, 02:34 PM
On another subject, has anyone built one of those nifty right angle drives? I don't know if anyone makes one for my Zay.

I saw a beautiful shop-made right-angle attachment in either HSM Magazine or MEW (British). I'll check when I get home...

Before I found the Excello right-angle attachment (the Excello has a substantially bigger quill sleeve), I was thinking of modifying a Bridgeport right-angle attachment -- they sell for a song on Ebay.

quasi
02-05-2010, 10:33 PM
Englishmen do drink piss warm beer, but it is great beer. Budweiser is Piss, warm or cold!

Tony Ennis
02-05-2010, 11:30 PM
There are 2 unrelated Budweisser beers. One is American and is, um, very good at being a mass-produced American lager.

The other is from Europe and is ok if you like really good beer.

lazlo
02-06-2010, 12:01 AM
For the record, a lot of Americans think Budweiser tastes recycled too. Budweiser is thin and tasteless because barley was rationed during World War II, so the Bush family used rice as a filler.

Fortunately, we had a resurgence of micro-brews in the US in the 90's, and having grown up in Germany (Army Brat), I can honestly say that we now have beer that rivals the best that Germany, Austria and the UK have to offer: Russian River, Deshutes, Dogfish Head, Rogues Ale, ...

The ultimate irony is that InBev, the owners of Stella Artois, bought Anheuser-Busch in 2008 for $52 billion. That's a lot of beer! :)

I've had the Budweiser-Budvar from Czechoslovakia - it's a good traditional pilsner. But I like the Czech Pilsner Urquell better.

duckman
02-06-2010, 12:09 AM
I like your set up but , I've run into a problem before when using a right angle head you can lock the quill but it can still move more so with an interrupted cut , what I usually do is clamp the quill with a small clamp across the quill stop knob and usually the lower left clamp bolt , then indicate the RA attachment and do what ever machining has to be done . JMHO :D

reggie_obe
02-06-2010, 12:20 AM
Why didn't the owner of the engine bring the block to an engine machine shop? Seems like they would have had purpose built boring equipment for this type of work.

Highpower
02-06-2010, 12:27 AM
For a fellow who doesn't like Bridgeports all that much, you seem to do rather well. That looks like a super job! The weld shows a lot of ability, too. A parent metal weld on cast iron is a real specialty.

Nice work!

Well, ANYONE could do it on a good mill.That's a lie.....

I could screw up that job on ANY mill! :D

Highpower
02-06-2010, 12:21 PM
John,
You did the job backwards...First you go to the pub,THEN

Setup and bore the holes at 2AM.

Nice job,
RichAre you the same Rich D. that is inquiring about my DRO?

John Stevenson
02-06-2010, 03:50 PM
Why didn't the owner of the engine bring the block to an engine machine shop? Seems like they would have had purpose built boring equipment for this type of work.

Engine machines shops are very rare here, We don't run high mileage vehicles here, roads aren't long enough and with engines getting better all the while means no one restores engines any more.

When we had the truck garage we kept one company in work all year, later in we stopped overhauling our own engines and bought short lumps off the manufacturers, it was loads cheaper.

The result is these companies have ceased to exist, we had three in the local town, all have now gone.

There is just one local guy who makes a living because he's the only one and the vintage game carries him, he does no modern stuff at all, he was approached but as it wasn't run of the mill he turned it down.

There was also a fair bit of other work on this block besides the bore that was more engineering than rebuilding hence me getting it.

I get a fair bit of weird work like this as the word gets round, I don't advertise, no sign up except the name on the truck and that's more to stop plod pulling the truck up late at night [ they only stop unmarked vans ], like all the best whores I'm not even in the phone book :rolleyes:

I like it this way.

.

TheAndroid
02-09-2010, 10:57 AM
I saw a beautiful shop-made right-angle attachment in either HSM Magazine or MEW (British). I'll check when I get home...


Lazlo, you didn't happen to find that article, did you?

Thanks.

TGTool
02-09-2010, 11:54 AM
Lazlo, you didn't happen to find that article, did you?

Thanks.

I don't know it it's the one Lazlo had in mind, but there's one in the Village Press Book "Two Shop Masters: Frank Mclean and Philip Duclos". It seems well thought out using pipe sections, miter gears and various bearings. (Welding required) As such the design should be adaptable to other quills and spindles.

Look up the VP sales section for info on the book.