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View Full Version : New Use for a Jacob's Chuck



BigBoy1
02-07-2010, 09:44 AM
I was making one of the hold down plates I saw pictured on a posting on this site. Not having a Tap-Matic device, I had to hand tap all the holes. After tapping the first hole, I decided that the small handle on the tap wrench and my artritic hands just wouldn't get alone at all. I tried a piece of pipe and that made tapping a lot easier but the pipe was too long to be able to make a complete revolution of the tap. Just as I was about to cut the pipe I spied the Jacob's chuck and decided to try it. The shank of the chuck made a very nice sized "handle" for the hands and tapping of the holes became a much easier task.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/i422twains/JacobsChuck.jpg

mochinist
02-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Your money, your tools...I wouldn't use any of my drill chucks for that though

ptjw7uk
02-07-2010, 10:38 AM
Cannot see why not judging by the remarks about the accuracy of drills and chucks it cant do the thing much harm using it as a handle! I would be more afraid of breaking the tap!

Peter

Doozer
02-07-2010, 10:39 AM
La de da, da da, la de da, SNAP.
Oh, *(&^!

--Doozer

Black_Moons
02-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Haha nice, just don't forget to clean and oil that taper :)
Rust prints get all over... :(

japcas
02-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Cannot see why not judging by the remarks about the accuracy of drills and chucks it cant do the thing much harm using it as a handle! I would be more afraid of breaking the tap!

Peter

I think what Mochinist is getting at is drill chucks aren't really designed for side force. May or may not damage the jaws inducing unwanted runout but it kind of makes for an expensive cheater bar.

Uncle O
02-07-2010, 11:04 AM
From what I can tell, it appears that is a full size bridgeport "type" mill...
I am wondering why the OP is not power tapping .....?

J.Ramsey
02-07-2010, 11:09 AM
From what I can tell, it appears that is a full size bridgeport "type" mill...
I am wondering why the OP is not power tapping .....?

I was wondering the same thing.

12teethperinch
02-07-2010, 11:16 AM
Judging by the size of the chip brush I think more likely a bench mill or mill drill.
Darrell

Paul Alciatore
02-07-2010, 12:01 PM
I find I can't get enough drill chucks. I have well over a dozen in a small shop. I have good quality chucks for use on the mill/drill and in the lathe and an assortment of others for many uses. Many have been purchased in "sale" situations at local places like home supply stores or on the internet when tool suppliers have sales.

I have used these chucks for many tasks. You can mount a countersink in one and use it to clean up drilled holes by hand. You can mount a reamer and clean out a hole/bore by hand. You can actually use them as tap handles for small taps: they will provide the balanced torque needed to prevent tap breakage when used in this manner. They can be used as vises for small, round parts. And in some cases a drill that is hand turned in an unmounted chuck is the answer to a delicate or difficult problem.

If I were using them for handles while tapping, I would use two identical but inexpensive ones to maintain balanced torque to prevent tap breakage. And yes, I would have at least two pairs to choose from; why buy one when you can buy two or three when they are on sale?

Many, many uses.

You can't have enough drill chucks.

DR
02-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Can it swing 360 around? It looks like it'll hit the machine on the back side.

No problem damaging the chuck with the light forces here. More worry about too much leverage and accidentally breaking the tap.

The Artful Bodger
02-07-2010, 12:30 PM
My favourite handle for hand tapping...


http://www.antiqueadvertiser.com/Collectables/Tools/HandDrill.jpg

Too much leverage is not a problem as while one hand holds it steady the other can be very sensitive to the pressure on the tap.

Carld
02-07-2010, 01:22 PM
Looks like a full size mill. I power tap with mine all the time with 1/4" or larger. You just have to be good with eye hand coordination to shut off then reverse the spindle before the tap gets to the end of the thread. If a blind hole I power in a ways and then hand feed with a tap T handle.

If I do as bigboy shows I use a piece of pipe that fits the handle of the tap wrench.

Scishopguy
02-07-2010, 04:40 PM
...And if it is a blind hole or too shallow to power tap just take the mill out of gear and turn the spindle by hand. Even if it is a larger tap, of say 1/2"or better, you can put the handle of the chuck key in in the hole the pin goes in to tighten the chuck and use it as a handle. With the tap in the spindle you should not have the out of balance problem with breakage.

MuellerNick
02-07-2010, 04:47 PM
Hah!
It's only a Jacobs, not an Albrecht. So any abuse is OK. ;)


Nick

small.planes
02-07-2010, 04:48 PM
I quite often use a cordless drill for tapping M6 (1/4") or larger holes.

Dave

darryl
02-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Why stop at a drill chuck? Go for a six jaw bison chuck- you won't need a shaft out the end of it, and there'd be enough weight you could just swing it from one side and it'll come around ready for another push :)

Artful B, I assume you intend to use that thing for nothing larger than a 4-40 tap- :)

The Artful Bodger
02-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Artful B, I assume you intend to use that thing for nothing larger than a 4-40 tap- :)

10 or 12mm depending upon material.:)

gwilson
02-07-2010, 08:04 PM
Why bother to post this in the first place?

Carld
02-07-2010, 08:16 PM
Aw come on gwilson, this is a HOME SHOP MACHINIST SITE not the PM site. There are a lot of threads that have merit for someone. He was looking for an easy way to turn the chuck and came up with the idea and posted it.

While it's not a new idea it is novel in a way. I have a tool I made that duplicates a tool Craftsman sold to turn the chuck to do what he did. It is a collar that slips over the chuck where the holes are and one of the two handles screws into one of the holes and then you can turn the chuck with the two handles. It converts the chuck into a tap wrench. Sears sold them in the 1960's and probably earlier than that.

I would guess some crafty machinist made one around 1900 or earlier, who knows, who cares.

His idea worked for him and he is proud of it and others have their ideas.

I think it's great we pass ideas around. You never know what one idea will lead to another really good tool.

oldtiffie
02-07-2010, 08:45 PM
My favourite handle for hand tapping...


http://www.antiqueadvertiser.com/Collectables/Tools/HandDrill.jpg

Too much leverage is not a problem as while one hand holds it steady the other can be very sensitive to the pressure on the tap.

Too right AB.

I had two of those braces and I'm damned if I know where they went. If I have to buy a new one I'll do it.

They are very sensitive as you say as regards pressure and torque on the "bit" and that ratchet is just fine.

There are a lot here who seem to be quite averse to "hand work" as opposed to "machine" as the preferred option.

gwilson
02-07-2010, 11:17 PM
It just isn't the right way to use a chuck.

darryl
02-07-2010, 11:26 PM
How 'bout some of these to go with that-

http://www.glacern.net/free_photo_upload/bits%20for%20brace.jpg

Carld
02-07-2010, 11:39 PM
Yep, I have the brace shown above and the bits shown above. I even have the old Yankee screw driver sold by Sears, at least I think it's still here somewhere.

deltap
02-07-2010, 11:44 PM
I was making one of the hold down plates I saw pictured on a posting on this site. Not having a Tap-Matic device, I had to hand tap all the holes. After tapping the first hole, I decided that the small handle on the tap wrench and my artritic hands just wouldn't get alone at all. I tried a piece of pipe and that made tapping a lot easier but the pipe was too long to be able to make a complete revolution of the tap. Just as I was about to cut the pipe I spied the Jacob's chuck and decided to try it. The shank of the chuck made a very nice sized "handle" for the hands and tapping of the holes became a much easier task.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/i422twains/JacobsChuck.jpg
I too have arthritic hands and have to add pipe handles when using a t wrench. I like the other type of tap wrench with the longer handles. I have a few different sizes. Mostly I use the mill for tapping. A bit larger tap drill say 60% thread makes the hand tapping much easier.

Black_Moons
02-08-2010, 12:25 AM
I got a few cheap $15 chucks I got recently, one use of them is holding tiny stock in the lathe, its on a straight 1/2" arbor.. till I got this 5C kit anyway..
Clean the hell out of the JT taper (solvents) and add a little bit of water before assembleing, Good luck getting that apart again!

another was used as a spare chuck for my tailstock on a MT3 arbor.. and another on a MT2 arbor for use in my BXA->MT2 holder.. actualy got used when I was reworking my tailstock and could'nt be bothered to reassemble the tailstock to start a bore in something :)

oldtiffie
02-08-2010, 12:36 AM
I was making one of the hold down plates I saw pictured on a posting on this site. Not having a Tap-Matic device, I had to hand tap all the holes. After tapping the first hole, I decided that the small handle on the tap wrench and my artritic hands just wouldn't get alone at all. I tried a piece of pipe and that made tapping a lot easier but the pipe was too long to be able to make a complete revolution of the tap. Just as I was about to cut the pipe I spied the Jacob's chuck and decided to try it. The shank of the chuck made a very nice sized "handle" for the hands and tapping of the holes became a much easier task.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t308/i422twains/JacobsChuck.jpg

Bill.

There is no right and wrong way to use a chuck. Its your damn chuck and you can use it however you like. If it doesn't damage the chuck - good - if it does, that's a gamble anyway and it will be at your cost. I doubt that you will do the chuck much harm.

If you really want to set the "thought police" and the cats and rats running -use a "quality" collet adaptor with a"quality" collet in it.

The piloted spindle tappers from http://cdcotools.com/ are pretty good as you can use the pilot in the end/top in any chuck in your mill or drill quill.

Search for items:

Range Item No. Price
0-1/4" 70001 $9.00
#12-1/2" 70002 $10.00

I also use a cheap but effective tap holder with a ratchet. The handle is ball-loaded against slippage but can be pushed from end-to-end as required. The ratchet has three settings: forward/lock/reverse.

I have drilled a centre hole in mine and engage it with a 60* taper on the end of a bit of scrap in my mill or drill spindle chuck. I hang a weight on the quill handle to just hold it in the "forward/down" condition. Everything is looked after and I can use both hands on the tap wrench.

darryl
02-08-2010, 12:50 AM
I have the same problem with tap holder handles. On a small one, I put pieces of fuel line tubing over the handles- on a larger one I still hurt my fingers now and then because I haven't done anything about it. For taps larger than 1/4 inch, I made a handle from 1/2 inch square bar that's maybe a foot long or so- here's a pic or two

http://www.glacern.net/free_photo_upload/tap%20handle.jpg

http://www.glacern.net/free_photo_upload/tap%20handle%20close%20up.jpg

This could use some kind of covering over the handles, but at least I don't get bruised or scratched up when using it.

KIMFAB
02-08-2010, 01:06 AM
I use a tapholder with a 3/8 drive socket brazed to it.
http://www.kimfab.com/tapholder.jpg

What happened to the manage attachments option?
Couldn't figure out how to post a pic.

Just noticed in the little box below I may not post attachments. Did I upset someone?

tyrone shewlaces
02-08-2010, 02:08 AM
It just isn't the right way to use a chuck.

Holy MPH
Anybody really realize how cruel and unusual the parts of a standard drill chuck get abused just in the regular line of duty? Nobody cares because, as machinist tools go, they aren't the finest pieces of art in the shop to begin with.
Then I don't want to ever hear from anybody or anybody's superior other how you ruined her kitchen utensils to blacken some steel blocks. Listen to marketing gurus and buy a proper stainless rifle steel barrel dip tank.

Evan has turned all you mutherhubbards to the dark side I think.
Buncha snipers.
Must be nice to own every perfect tool for every job.

"Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way."
"And thats all I got to say about that"

BigBoy1
02-08-2010, 07:26 AM
From what I can tell, it appears that is a full size bridgeport "type" mill...
I am wondering why the OP is not power tapping .....?


Yes, it is a Grizzly, Bridgeport clone. If I knew how to do power tapping, I would. Can someone tell me how to do it and not break the tap? Thanks.

BigBoy1
02-08-2010, 07:49 AM
Bill.

There is no right and wrong way to use a chuck. Its your damn chuck and you can use it however you like. If it doesn't damage the chuck - good - if it does, that's a gamble anyway and it will be at your cost. I doubt that you will do the chuck much harm.

If you really want to set the "thought police" and the cats and rats running -use a "quality" collet adaptor with a"quality" collet in it.

The piloted spindle tappers from http://cdcotools.com/ are pretty good as you can use the pilot in the end/top in any chuck in your mill or drill quill.

Search for items:

Range Item No. Price
0-1/4" 70001 $9.00
#12-1/2" 70002 $10.00

I also use a cheap but effective tap holder with a ratchet. The handle is ball-loaded against slippage but can be pushed from end-to-end as required. The ratchet has three settings: forward/lock/reverse.

I have drilled a centre hole in mine and engage it with a 60* taper on the end of a bit of scrap in my mill or drill spindle chuck. I hang a weight on the quill handle to just hold it in the "forward/down" condition. Everything is looked after and I can use both hands on the tap wrench.

I was operating under the impression that tools were made to be used. If an off-beat application was discovered and it made the job esaier and solve a problem, then so what. I'm sure much more and severe forces are placed on the drill chuck by dropping in the floor than I have by using it to solve a problem.

I am using a piloted spindle tapper. The shank is held in the mill's spindle and am using the DRO to locate each of the holes for drilling and tapping. Do you have more info on the your ball-loaded ratchet handle? Sounds like it is something I can use. Thanks.

Carld
02-08-2010, 07:52 AM
Bill, are the holes through holes or are the blind? That makes a difference in how I do it. To drill and power tap it's best to use a cheap chuck because it may get some damage.

The speed is important and I use direct drive with the slowest belt setting. I drill at the direct speed and then shift the levers for low range to tap. If you have a two speed motor keep it on low speed on the motor.

Line up on the hole and drill it through then chuck up the tap and shift to low range and turn it on. Oil up the hole then the tap while it's running and push the tap into the work with your hand on the switch. when the tap is through the work turn it off and hit the spindle brake, then reverse the motor and back the tap out.

With a blind hole I use the mill to start the tap and run it in a few turns so it's lined up and stop the spindle and loosen the chuck, back it off and finish with a tap handle.

I also have some special sockets to hold taps that I use but mostly just use a drill chuck to power tap.

DON'T USE A KEYLESS CHUCK TO POWER TAP, they will get so tight you can hardly get them loose.

If you have any questions please ask.

oldtiffie
02-08-2010, 07:58 AM
Bill,

they are pretty common here in OZ and are presumably the same in your neck of the woods.

I will try to remember to post a pic tomorrow and I'm pretty sure you will say "Oh goodness me - THAT one" whereas I'd say: "oh $hit yeah" (we are a rough lot here in OZ - descended from convicts and all that ............... etc.

mochinist
02-08-2010, 08:28 AM
Holy MPH
Anybody really realize how cruel and unusual the parts of a standard drill chuck get abused just in the regular line of duty? Nobody cares because, as machinist tools go, they aren't the finest pieces of art in the shop to begin with.
Then I don't want to ever hear from anybody or anybody's superior other how you ruined her kitchen utensils to blacken some steel blocks. Listen to marketing gurus and buy a proper stainless rifle steel barrel dip tank.

Evan has turned all you mutherhubbards to the dark side I think.
Buncha snipers.
Must be nice to own every perfect tool for every job.

"Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way."
"And thats all I got to say about that"I dont know what you do to your drill chucks, but I would hardly call anything I do to mine abusing them, and I would be willing to bet I drill and have drilled more holes than most here minus the others that also do this for a living.


I also dont own every tool for the job, that doesn't mean I would go using my drill chuck for a tap handle because it was handy(again your tools your money, do what you want,) I would have just drilled out a piece of a larger diameter solid stock and slid it over the handle.

oldtiffie
02-08-2010, 08:29 AM
Good advice Carl - but the correct taps need to - or should - be used.

I have a "tapping" feature on my Sieg SX3 mill but I don't use too often as my machine supplier said that there had been a few complaints about it. But that could be an operator or wrong tap problem.

I am a little old-fashioned as I use the mill or drill to start the tap as the the OP (Bill) does then I with-draw the tap, start another tapped hole etc. and then finish off on the bench as the tap will be self-centreing and self-aligning at that stage. I don't do a lot of tapping really and I don't mind the manual work on the bench.

I aim for 60>80% thread contact - 60% is about right for most jobs - and as Bill says - its easier.

I am thinking about a power tapper but I will buy a full set of power taps as I need them - mostly metric - M3, M4, M5, M6, M8, M10 and M12.

Here the tapping heads are bloody expensive.

Here are the tap guides:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Black_book/Black_book2_P20-21_1.jpg

Uncle O
02-08-2010, 09:55 AM
Carld gives good advice above for power tapping.
Only thing I would point out is that it is not usually necessary to run the tap all the way down til you run out of threads....and if you should do that , the tap will likely break off, or at least bugger the threads up pretty good. Unless you are using a reduced shank tap.

I would suggest just going ahead and try it on some scrap,.. just as Carld says. But since you are new to it, as soon as you get a couple of revolutions in, you may want to turn off the power and let it coast another turn or 2, just to see what you can expect from the process. You can bump the motor if you want to go another rev or 2 after that. The important thing to do is not panic when doing this, as you only have a portion of a minute before you will run out of threads.

Also, it may be a personal thing with me, but I hate 4 flute taps. For me
anyway, they always break WAY more often than a 2 or 3 fluter.
Start out with thru holes....

Good Luck

Carld
02-08-2010, 10:05 AM
Umm, yes, I never run the tap in all the way to the end of the threads on the tap. That is asking for trouble. I also only use two or three flute spiral point gun taps to power tap.

:o , sorry 'bout that, I should have mentioned these things.

Another thing is always use sharp taps to power tap with. NEVER use a dull tap or you will get some experience of removing broken taps and cussing.

Toolguy
02-08-2010, 10:20 AM
If I have a lot of holes to do, I use the keyed chuck like a keyless chuck and only hand tighten. For tapping smaller holes 3/8 and under, you can tighten it enough to drive the tap, but it will slip if the tap hangs up. With a keyless chuck, it will just tighten more and snap off the tap. I use a 1/2 in. chuck for
1/4 to 3/8, smaller chuck for smaller taps. With a little practice you get to know where the limits are and can cruise through holes pretty quick, all under power. I do not recommend power tapping blind holes this way. The spiral point/ gun taps cut the best of all in a through hole.