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Sophiedoc
02-28-2010, 09:23 AM
What is the mechanism for copy protection on software especially since it apparently can travel by email?If you copied your hard drive would the copy of the hard drive have a working copy of the software?I am changing computers-thanks.

Evan
02-28-2010, 09:31 AM
You have asked one of those questions that can be worded in a single sentence but where the answer can fill an entire book. Do you have a concern about any particular title?

Tony Ennis
02-28-2010, 09:36 AM
It would probably work. If the hard drive was put into a non-identical computer, it may not work without fiddling. For example, if the software is configured to work on a monitor of a certain size, it may work badly or not at all on a computer with a monitor that's a different size.

And some software 'phones home.' This makes it possible for the legal software owners to note that piracy may have occurred.

Evan
02-28-2010, 09:52 AM
Most current Microsoft titles use hardware serial numbers as part of the "activation" scheme the same as the system used to tie the OS to a particular machine. This also applies to various DRM systems now in use.

It also depends on how the copy of the hard drive is made. For best results it should be "Ghosted" to the new drive. That still doesn't guarantee that all titles will still work as some software will store a hidden token in a specific track and sector on the drive.

Tony Ennis
02-28-2010, 09:55 AM
Not to mention all the crap in the registry if you're not talking about the "C" drive.

rockrat
02-28-2010, 10:21 AM
You may want to review your software and what the requirements are for moving it.

An example, Pro-Engineer 2000 was still using a coding that you had to call in to get. It was based on a number that the install would generate based on your network card id. If you kept the 500 character lock code that was generated for you and you put your old network card in the new system, you were fine. I think that they have moved to cpu id but I cant swear to it.

On the opposite end, some dont need anything. At a minimum, a code printed on a cd case will activate the software. While I have never done it, I think ghosting a drive would work for this.

While many software packages use different ways to protect them from copy, some are very complex. Therefore, it would be best to review each one and evaluate if you will need to find a receipt and call the vendor for advice.

rock~

loose nut
02-28-2010, 10:30 AM
If you are going to copy your old C drive as a new computer C Drive it probably won't work at all and if it does it will be clunky. The new computer will have different drivers ETC. and the registry entries will be different making it difficult to get working and after your fight with it and maybe get it to work it will probably crash a lot from conflicts between old crap and new freshly installed drivers etc. Better to do a fresh install.

lazlo
02-28-2010, 10:43 AM
If you are going to copy your old C drive as a new computer C Drive it probably won't work at all and if it does it will be clunky.

Not only that, but like Evan mentioned, it probably won't pass Windows Activation, which does an encrypted hash of all your hardware ID's. Microsoft uses a weighting system, where the motherboard and CPU have the highest weights, the amount of RAM the least. So you can change a good bit of hardware without having to re-activate windows, but a completely new system will definitely trigger it.

Evan
02-28-2010, 11:46 AM
One trick that isn't well known to get around Windows activation is to tell the system that it is a laptop. This greatly relaxs the activation system because of the changes that normally occur with a laptop when it is plugged into different docking systems.

My Computer>Properties>Hardware>Hardware Profiles>(current profile) Properties>check "Portable computer", dock ID unknown

dp
02-28-2010, 11:55 AM
Microsoft office for Mac is an oddity. It is stored in a Mac object that is not quite a zip file, nor any common kind of archive file. But if you select the Office object in the Mac file manager (Finder) you can drag to to another attached computer, to a disk, or to a USB device. That copy can be run on another Mac as is. It isn't necessarily illegal actionable, provided you remove the original from the source system.

I like software that is so easy to work with. No registry to fiddle with, no activation.

Evan
02-28-2010, 12:00 PM
It isn't illegal to breach a licence agreement anyway. That is breach of contract which is a tort, not a crime.

kendall
02-28-2010, 12:56 PM
Not only that, but like Evan mentioned, it probably won't pass Windows Activation, which does an encrypted hash of all your hardware ID's. Microsoft uses a weighting system, where the motherboard and CPU have the highest weights, the amount of RAM the least. So you can change a good bit of hardware without having to re-activate windows, but a completely new system will definitely trigger it.

If you just need to switch motherboards, a normally effective workaround with windows is to disable on-board components one at a time, and replace them with add in cards. Then disable everything on-board in the new motherboard and install all the old cards.

When you start the computer there normally won't be enough changes registered to kick in activation, so you just remove cards and activate the on-board components one at a time.
Essentially all the OS sees is a series of small changes, none of which is large enough to trigger activation.

It's not any quicker than re-installing the OS, but often helps when you have critical software you can't reinstall easiliy

Best way to avoid the problem is to install the software into a virtual machine, simply because the virtual machine is always the same. (no help for an existing installation though!)

Ken.

dp
02-28-2010, 01:20 PM
Not only that, but like Evan mentioned, it probably won't pass Windows Activation, which does an encrypted hash of all your hardware ID's. Microsoft uses a weighting system, where the motherboard and CPU have the highest weights, the amount of RAM the least. So you can change a good bit of hardware without having to re-activate windows, but a completely new system will definitely trigger it.

Yet another excellent reason to use virtual machines. Changes to the underlying physical hardware are not presented to the OS running on the virtual machine. Even if you move the OS between virtual machines on various physical machines - they're portable.

JCD
02-28-2010, 02:02 PM
I just finished coping and replacing the "C:" drive on my XP based machine using Acronis True Image. No Problem. The drive was same size and manufacturer and only contained the operating system and about six applications. So, it can be done, but if you change drive size, or other major components, like processor, Mother Board, etc. and you are using XP or other Microsoft operating systems, you may need to "re-register" with Microsoft. Other application software will usually work, but don't be too surprised if you need to re-register it also. Big Brother does get a little excited if you "Pirate" software, but moving the software you own is probably O.K. Most licenses state the equivalent of; one copy only on one machine.

Sophiedoc
02-28-2010, 05:32 PM
I can now see this is not a simple problem.What brought this to a focus was some software (dxf 2gcode) from SWREG headquartered in Eden Prairie Minnesota.This was developed by a German fellow but is offered through SWREG a software seller.It works well on my home computer but it is acting up and my shop computer is not connected to the net.SWREG looks like an easy connect but their links don't work and they have no phone numbers I can find to talk to them.Thanks all for your input.

Evan
02-28-2010, 05:59 PM
Big Brother does get a little excited if you "Pirate" software, but moving the software you own is probably O.K. Most licenses state the equivalent of; one copy only on one machine.

Not if it is Microsoft Windows. Once you install Windows on a machine you agree that it has become a part of that machine and can never be used on any other computer under any circumstances. It is even more limiting than that as you can read below in the Windows XP End User Licence Agreement.





SOFTWARE PRODUCT LICENSE

The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if
the HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the
computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE
is a computer system component.

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. Manufacturer grants you the following
rights, provided you comply with all of the terms and
conditions of this EULA:

* Installation and Use. Except as otherwise expressly
provided in this EULA, you may install, use, access,
display and run only one (1) copy of the SOFTWARE on
the COMPUTER. The SOFTWARE may not
be used by more than one (1) processor at any one time
on the COMPUTER, unless a higher number is indicated
on the Certificate of Authenticity. You may permit a
maximum of five (5) ("Connection Maximum") computers
or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect
to the COMPUTER to utilize the services of the SOFTWARE
solely for File and Print services, Internet Information
services, and remote access (including connection sharing
and telephony services). The five (5) Connection Maximum
includes any indirect connections made through
"multiplexing" or other software or hardware which pools
or aggregates connections. Except as otherwise permitted
below, you may not use the Device to use, access, display
or run the SOFTWARE, the SOFTWARE's
User Interface or other executable software residing
on the COMPUTER.


* Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS
LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED,
TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY
ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE
is licensed with the HARDWARE as a single integrated
product and may only be used with the HARDWARE. If the
SOFTWARE is not accompanied by new HARDWARE, you may
not use the SOFTWARE. You may permanently transfer all
of your rights under this EULA only as part of a
permanent sale or transfer of the HARDWARE, provided
you retain no copies, if you transfer all of the SOFTWARE
(including all component parts, the media and printed
materials, any upgrades, this EULA and the Certificate
of Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms
of this EULA. If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade, any
transfer must also include all prior versions of the
SOFTWARE.

* Mandatory Activation. THIS SOFTWARE
CONTAINS TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES THAT
ARE DESIGNED TO PREVENT UNLICENSED
OR ILLEGAL USE OF THE SOFTWARE.
The license rights granted under this EULA are limited
to the first thirty (30) days after you first run the
SOFTWARE unless you supply information required to
activate your licensed copy in the manner described
during the setup sequence (unless Manufacturer has
activated for you). You can activate the SOFTWARE
through the use of the Internet or telephone; toll
charges may apply. You may also need to reactivate the
SOFTWARE if you modify your HARDWARE or alter the
SOFTWARE.

Evan
02-28-2010, 06:20 PM
I think you are out of luck. SWREG appears to be a complete scam and any software you received from them was most likely pirated.

Here is more about it from a forum post on scam.com:



Just wanted to point out that the address you have listed is not for SWREG, Inc.
That address is for Digital River Inc.
Quote:
Digital River Corporate Headquarters, U.S.
9625 West 76th Street
Eden Prairie, MN 55344

Digital River is the company that processed the charge. They do processing of software/electronic d/l'eds for a number of company's. Also from the above link;
Quote:
Customer Service

For inquiries regarding the installation or how to use your product, please visit the web site where you purchased the product from in order to locate technical support and contact information.

Here is the BBB report for Swreg.org;
Quote:
Atlantic Coast PLC
P.O. Box 6200
Indianapolis, IN 46206

The BBB reports on members and non-members. If a company is a member of the BBB, it is stated in this report.

Principal: Stephen Lee, C E O
Web Site Address: www.swreg.org
Membership Status: This company is not a BBB member
Type of Business: Business Services (General)
Additional Business Names:
S W R E G

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the BBB due to a failure to respond to complaints.

The WhoIs info for swreg.org gives;
Quote:
Domain ID:D3066051-LROR
Domain Name:SWREG.ORG
Created On:14-Jan-1999 05:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:15-Jan-2007 22:29:11 UTC
Expiration Date:14-Jan-2012 05:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Network Solutions LLC (R63-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:0-656485-Gandi
Registrant Name:Atlantic Coast plc
Registrant Organization:Atlantic Coast plc
Registrant Street1:Atlantic Coast PLC
Registrant Street2:The Shareware Village
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Colyton
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code:EX24 6HA
Registrant Country:GB
Registrant Phone:+44.199999999
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email: steve @swreg.org (edited, remove space)

The contact info in the WhoIs appears to be fraudulent. The address and phone are;
Atlantic Coast PLC
The Shareware Village
Coylton EX24 6HA
GB
+44.199999999

The +44 is the county calling code for the UK, but I find it highly unlikely that the number, 19999999, is valid. Also, the address ends in GB (Great Britain) not UK (United Kingdom). UK postal codes also only begin with three characters, two letters and one number. Here is a liting of postal codes in the UK by city; http://postalcode.globefeed.com/UK_Postal_Code.asp . Coylton does not appear on the list.

The 'Contact Us' page for swreg.org gives this info;
Quote:
SWREG, Inc.
9625 West 76th Street, #150
Eden Prairie, MN 55344
USA

EIN: 84-1659188
VAT: EU826005198

As I already have shown the address belongs to the processing company. The VAT number listed is also invalid and can be checked here; http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs...tedLanguage=EN . No VAT numbers begin with EU. The only ones that begin with an 'E' are;
Quote:
EE-Estonia
EL-Greece
ES-Spain

Swreg.org also claims to be owned by Digital River. I can find no mention of this relationship on Digital Rivers website or in Digital Rivers BBB report.



http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=31059

Mcgyver
02-28-2010, 08:38 PM
It isn't illegal to breach a licence agreement anyway. That is breach of contract which is a tort, not a crime.

maybe you're confusing illegal with unlawful....illegal means its against the rules of the situation, those rules could be statute, common law, contract or even a game (an illegal hit for example). It is common to write in a claim or brief, or to have litigators refer to the "illegal actions" of the defendant, meaning they contravene the shareholders agreement, employment contract, purchase agreement, whatever

Evan
02-28-2010, 08:43 PM
Since illegal clearly does mean "Unlawful" it is useful to draw a distinction to avoid confusion.

Mcgyver
02-28-2010, 09:07 PM
Since illegal clearly does mean "Unlawful" it is useful to draw a distinction to avoid confusion.

what? Illegal does not mean unlawful. You said it isn't illegal to breach a license agreement. You are wrong, a breach of the license can be described as illegal as is common practice (its against the terms of the agreement) and may or may not be unlawful (against the law of the land).

Evan
02-28-2010, 09:32 PM
Main Entry: illegal
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: against the law
Synonyms: actionable, banned, black-market, bootleg, contraband, criminal, crooked, extralegal, felonious, forbidden, heavy*, hot*, illegitimate, illicit, interdicted, irregular, lawless, not approved, not legal, outlawed, outside the law, prohibited, proscribed, prosecutable, racket, shady, smuggled, sub rosa, taboo, unauthorized, unconstitutional, under the table, unlawful, unlicensed, unofficial, unwarrantable, unwarranted, verboten, violating, wildcat, wrongful
Notes: a form of conduct will be illicit and a type of practice will be illegal
Antonyms: allowed, authorized, ethical, good, lawful, legal, legitimate, moral, permissible, right

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/illegal

The root of illegal is the Latin "Legis" meaning Law.

Mcgyver
02-28-2010, 10:35 PM
your need to be right no matter what is nothing short of astounding. All you had to say was, "right, I meant unlawful". now your need to be right has you defending the ridiculous position that he was incorrect to refer to a contract breach as being illegal.......


Originally Posted by Evan
It isn't illegal to breach a licence agreement anyway. That is breach of contract which is a tort, not a crime.

as i said, illegal can be unlawful, but it doesn't have to be...illegal can also mean actions against the rules AND it is constantly used in writing and verbally by litigators to refer to actions in breach of contracts that have nothing to do with a crime. Unfortunately i have more than enough first hand experience with the $1000 an hour commercial litigators to know for certain breaches of contract are referred to as illegal actions.

i'll not bother posting again as it appears a waste of time.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal

Evan
02-28-2010, 11:21 PM
your need to be right no matter what is nothing short of astounding. All you had to say was, "right, I meant unlawful". now your need to be right has you defending the ridiculous position that he was incorrect to refer to a contract breach as being illegal.......


I didn't mean to write unlawful. Illegal has unlawful as it's root meaning as well as it's primary connotation. As I said, it is useful to draw a distinction to avoid confusion. The dictionaries support that interpretation 100%. The problem isn't that I am right, it is that you have found yourself wrong. Sorry about that.

John Stevenson
03-01-2010, 04:48 AM
The +44 is the county calling code for the UK, but I find it highly unlikely that the number, 19999999, is valid. Also, the address ends in GB (Great Britain) not UK (United Kingdom). UK postal codes also only begin with three characters, two letters and one number. Here is a liting of postal codes in the UK by city; http://postalcode.globefeed.com/UK_Postal_Code.asp . Coylton does not appear on the list.

Even,
Just one small point, UK post codes can have two letters and two numbers, starting and ending.

If you pump EX24 6HA into Google maps you come up with a spot in Coylton in Devon,UK

And to answer the original question the link for the genuine version of dxf2gcode is here.

http://code.google.com/p/dxf2gcode/

lazlo
03-01-2010, 08:24 AM
And to answer the original question the link for the genuine version of dxf2gcode is here.

http://code.google.com/p/dxf2gcode/

That's an Open Source Python script published under the GNU license. You can't sell that :(

Sophiedoc
03-01-2010, 08:58 AM
I found the Google web hosting site with information on the "2" version but could never get the downloads to work.Tried for a while and since I had a demo of the original that worked well except it was incomplete I bought the first version from SWREG for $79.00.They added on an additional charge which I couldn't understand and couldn't take off.I'm wondering if the 2 site is damaged some way.I can't seem to be able to contact SWREG.They are supposed to be a multimillion dollar company with no listed phone numbers and links that don't work.I have contacted the city officials but so far no response.

lazlo
03-01-2010, 09:01 AM
Call your credit card company and do a charge-back. You have up to 90 days.

Sophiedoc
03-01-2010, 09:09 AM
Sorry I didn't read Evan's post on the company before answering.Still wonder wonder why the Google site didn't work for me before I purchased.

John Stevenson
03-01-2010, 09:23 AM
Just tried the b02.exe and it downloaded and worked for me - nothing to pay - free download.

Get Evan to get you your money back - he's the list lawyer.

.

Evan
03-01-2010, 10:02 AM
You have been scammed. That being the case, if it isn't too late then your credit card company should cover it. I am not sure about the US but in Canada it is the law that the credit card company is responsible for false charges on a credit card.

knudsen
03-01-2010, 10:37 AM
Not if it is Microsoft Windows. Once you install Windows on a machine you agree that it has become a part of that machine and can never be used on any other computer under any circumstances. It is even more limiting than that as you can read below in the Windows XP End User Licence Agreement.

Evan, the quote you posted on post #16 looks like an OEM license. Here in the US, there are many different MS licenses. AFAIK, only OEM does not allow the software or the OS to be moved. At this and my last job, I have been under an enterprise level site license that allows unlimited simultaneous installations, even at home. Home copy expires with termination of employment. That's the opposite extreme. Usually, here in the US, OEM is what you get if you buy software with or preloaded on your PC at a highly discounted price, or separate hardware in some cases, like a DVD with burning software. OEM usually can not be moved or upgraded. If you go out and buy the software separately you usually get the full license, own the software "forever," and may re-install it on a new PC. I'm sure there are differences between different countries, even US and Canada.

knudsen
03-01-2010, 10:38 AM
BTW: This thread is:


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_jF4hS9l3o6s/SlJTWpvMUrI/AAAAAAAABXU/7vpUalpJ3h4/s320/worms.jpg

Evan
03-01-2010, 12:15 PM
Usually, here in the US, OEM is what you get if you buy software with or preloaded on your PC at a highly discounted price, or separate hardware in some cases, like a DVD with burning software. OEM usually can not be moved or upgraded. If you go out and buy the software separately you usually get the full license, own the software "forever," and may re-install it on a new PC. I'm sure there are differences between different countries, even US and Canada.


The vast majority of home and small business users have OEM licenced version of Windows. Corporate licencing is an entirely different game and generally doesn't trickle down much to the home level. Even though I worked for Xerox we had no access to a corporate licence version and the company supplied laptop was locked up tighter than Fort Knox. Once per month we received a "Golden Image" disk that reformatted the hard drive and re-imaged it with the latest updates. This wiped out all previous content and replaced it with the corporate authorized data. The security was total and even assessing the corporate network requires typing in a password shown on the screen of a small pocket sized device that is synchronized with the IT system gateway verification system. It changes every 60 seconds and if you don't get a match you only get one more chance.

I digress. That licence is the norm and very few people go out and pay the full price for Windows. A full version of XP cost $300 here when it first came out. When I sold a computer with Windows XP on it embedded in the price was the cost of Windows to me. That would vary depending on what I wanted. If I wanted the full OEM version complete with installation disk and COA sticker it cost me $145. If I would settle for the Distributor branded version tied to the system BIOS and a reinstall disk good only for that machine it was $115. If I would settle for only a hard drive image in a separate partition then it cost $90, no disk.

Vendors such a HP or Dell pay much less than that. MS makes about $40 on each machine sold with OEM Windows on it and it may be less for the really big vendors. That is one of the best kept secrets in the business.

For the record, I only sold machines with the fully portable OEM version of Windows.

RancherBill
03-02-2010, 11:22 AM
I digress. That licence is the norm and very few people go out and pay the full price for Windows. A full version of XP cost $300 here when it first came out. When I sold a computer with Windows XP on it embedded in the price was the cost of Windows to me. That would vary depending on what I wanted. If I wanted the full OEM version complete with installation disk and COA sticker it cost me $145. If I would settle for the Distributor branded version tied to the system BIOS and a reinstall disk good only for that machine it was $115. If I would settle for only a hard drive image in a separate partition then it cost $90, no disk.

I'm curious, you only mention the COA in your first example. The COA, sticker or paper always comes with a 'real copy' of Windows. It always had and always will.

The second thing of the 'tied to the bios' is true, but, it is easily overcome. I have replaced many motherboards. It is maybe 5 minutes extra work.

Evan
03-02-2010, 12:34 PM
What I meant by mentioning the COA sticker is that it isn't glued to the machine. With the less expensive options it is mandatory that the MS licensed machine builder apply the sticker to the machine before shipping.

Fiddling the bios is beyond 99% of the population. Product activation can be defeated entirely if you know how. That is also beyond most of the population.