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View Full Version : Just got a Surface grinder...yay



rubes
03-16-2010, 07:54 PM
Not like I was really dyin' for one, but this popped up and I fell for it.
Boyar Shultz Challenger 612. Has a built in dust collector and a DRO too. I still need to get a phase converter though (or get a new motor). But I think a cheap VFD is just the ticket for the 3/4hp motor. And the oneshot oiler is missing.
I find it strange that the single axis of DRO is on the Y, I would think it would be more useful on Z.
Any idea why the power switch would have "automatic" as well as "manual" if it is strictly a manual machine? It don't look like any of the drive parts were missing.
Couldn't track down a user manual yet either, anyone point me to one?

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/596/dscf90562582901.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/dscf90562582901.jpg/)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6171/dscf90622565660.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/i/dscf90622565660.jpg/)

Glenn Wegman
03-16-2010, 08:04 PM
http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/manuals/boyar-schultz/

oldtiffie
03-16-2010, 08:10 PM
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I find it strange that the single axis of DRO is on the Y, I would think it would be more useful on Z.

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http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/596/dscf90562582901.jpg



I think the reason the DRO is on the "Y" axis is for use when "side" grinding - ie when using the side/s of the wheel - as the hand-wheel/dial may not be as accurate as was required. That sort of work is common on Tool & Cutter grinders.

The reason a DRO is not fitted to the "Z" is or may be that it may not be required as the "Z" dial calibrations are finer than in "Y" and further, the surface grinder "Z" drive is "hanging off" rather than necessarily being driven by the nut and lead-screw and is a much more accurate arrangement than is the case on a lot of other screw-driven slides/drives............................................ .

Jim Shaper
03-16-2010, 08:42 PM
Tiffie's got it right.

One of my mentor's is a Tool and Die maker and he explained it the same to me. The wheel in Z is .0005 graduations, so you can pretty much sneak up on .0001 if you interpolate the lines.

Mcgyver
03-16-2010, 09:03 PM
congrats!

.

rockrat
03-16-2010, 09:28 PM
The automatic setting on the switch for the one I once used was to control the dust collector that went with it. Manual = grinder only, Automatic = grinder and dust collector.

As for the one shot lube, get something back on there. One of the areas that lube is supposed to supply is a line that runs up under the top cap and allows oil to drip down the guides for the wheel assembly to move up and down. As that gets sticky from lack of lube the wheel can drop down nearly .050 at a time. You want the wheel to progress down at the same rate that the hand-wheel is turned for control of the grinding.

The more I think about it, that lubricator is supposed to be electrical and run continuously. It has a little timer on it that pumps a small amount of oil every 10 minutes or so.

rock~

Ken_Shea
03-16-2010, 09:44 PM
Now your making me anxious rubes, I bought a B&S #2 two months ago and have not been able to get it picked up with all the nasty weather we have had. You will use that more then you think is my guess.

Nice.

Ken

rubes
03-17-2010, 07:17 AM
Now your making me anxious rubes, I bought a B&S #2 two months ago and have not been able to get it picked up with all the nasty weather we have had. You will use that more then you think is my guess.

Nice.

Ken

hahaha...I thought I was having it bad since I paid for it a week ago, and just got it yesterday.

Thanx Tiffie and Jim...that does make sense now that you mention it.

Rock, I guess that could be it on the auto/manual switch, thanx. And yeah, an oiler will definately be back on there. the tubing is still there, just the pump and res. are missing. I did notice on some of the ones I saw that the oiler looked electrical...wonder what the chances are of finding just one of those:confused:

Black_Moons
03-17-2010, 09:40 AM
yea im pertty sure oil systems on a surface grinder are mucho important. Iv read about a few surface grinders that seemed to use the oil system to flush grit outta the slideways, (or rather, keep it from getting up there in the first place).

chrisfournier
03-17-2010, 11:27 AM
My Chevalier 612 looks very similar to your new machine, right down to the sheet metal base cabinet. I wonder if my 1978 era chevalier is a branded unit?

Would a surface grinder on a mobile base suffer finish issues?

As others have said, you'll find many uses for your new machine!

Mcgyver
03-17-2010, 11:39 AM
My Chevalier 612 looks very similar to your new machine, right down to the sheet metal base cabninet. I wonder if my 1978 era chevalier is a branded unit?


The Chevaliers i've had and have are Chinese (well, Taiwanese) knock offs of well known grinders - maybe yours is a copy of the Boyar Shultz ?

chrisfournier
03-17-2010, 12:07 PM
McGyver, I think you're right about this.

Michael Hall
03-17-2010, 12:31 PM
Try these links for the parts list and manual for the Boyar-Schultz Challenger series surface grinder.


http://www.cobaltequipment.com/manua...rts_Manual.pdf

http://www.cobaltequipment.com/manua...ltz_Manual.pdf

Michael

rubes
03-17-2010, 01:10 PM
...Would a surface grinder on a mobile base suffer finish issues?...

hmmmm, didnt really think of that, but I assume you're right. Since apparently eveything else effects surface finish. The cart came with it, and sure does make it convienient for now. I'll see what the finishes look like and may have to take it off once I find a spot for it.

And on the finish note...since there appears to be no lock on the Z axis, does the height of the wheel really stay put during operation? it is really easy to turn the handle, and I would have just assumed that there would be a lock to keep it in position. I guess a balanced wheel keeps it from vibrating downwards?

My noobieness in all things grinder related is really showing, eh?

Thanx Michael...I knew it had to be available somewhere.

rockrat
03-17-2010, 08:46 PM
As I recall, I priced the Bijur pump that was on our old machine and was nearly heartbroken when they told me how much it was to replace. I just saw one on ebays "buy it now" for $295. That was cheaper than what I had been quoted. You might find a used one at a machine dealer for much cheaper.

By the way, nice score. I dont know how I would get along without my Reid grinder. They are so nice to have in the shop.

rock~

chrisfournier
03-17-2010, 09:31 PM
I have never really thought about the wheel height staying after it's been set, but it does.

The mobile base would be gold if it didn't adversely affect the finish.

Doozer
03-17-2010, 11:10 PM
As to the Z wheel moving on its own, under the top cover there is a set screw with a brass or lead pellet under it that adds friction to the Z handwheel shaft. Adjust it as needed.
My BS was a manual oil machine. It had a ball type oil fitting on the table, right in the middle of the table stop T slot. (and right in the prime area to attract grit). I plugged that front oil port with a soft plug, and I drilled the oil passage to come out the back of the table. I used a 10-32 to 1/8" plastic tubing 90deg push lock banjo fitting. The 1/8" nylon tube is fed by a one shot. Another one shot feeds the top gears and ways. For one shot oilers, I used Dutton-Lainson pump oil cans.
I must relay my experience with way oil and this grinder. For the table, Vactra 2 is way too thick. I switched to red ATF and my table moves much easier. Like twice as easy. I stick to Vactra 2 for the Z ways.
Stay with that 3 phase motor. It has sleeve bearings. Keep them both oiled, as well. It is a very smooth motor. AutomationDirect.com has good VFDs cheap. Even 120v input models.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/kooldoozer/Machines%20and%20Stuff/IMG_0008.jpg

--Doozer

tdmidget
03-17-2010, 11:59 PM
can't tell from your pix where the DRO is mounted. Do you know Z from Y?

Machining Fundamentals The Goodheart-Willcox Company, Inc. 2000 Pg. 402 by John R. Walker ISBN: 1-56637-662-9
Will tell you that Z is always the axis of spindle rotation . On a surface grinder the crossfeed is Z, the down feed is Y and traverse is X.

rubes
03-18-2010, 08:18 AM
can't tell from your pix where the DRO is mounted. Do you know Z from Y?

Machining Fundamentals The Goodheart-Willcox Company, Inc. 2000 Pg. 402 by John R. Walker ISBN: 1-56637-662-9
Will tell you that Z is always the axis of spindle rotation . On a surface grinder the crossfeed is Z, the down feed is Y and traverse is X.

It is on the crossfeed. The manual never mentions X, Y or Z but uses Cross feed, Table feed, and Elevation. Obviously everyone else understood what I meant, so it appears to be a "typical" definition. I guess we all see the table just like a mill. But your description makes sense. Thanx.

That looks really nice Doozer. I found a Bijur manual oneshot on ebay for $129. I also got a Teco EV series VFD (120v input).

tdmidget
03-18-2010, 11:23 PM
If you can only have a DRO on 1 axis of surface grinder it should be Y or down feed. There are two reasons for grinding. One is finish quality and the other is size. You will have much better control of size with it on you downfeed or Y.
I can't believe tiffie made that suggestion. NO manufacturer of grinders or wheels recommends grinding on the side of the wheel unless it is a wheel specifically designed for it, which surface grinder wheels are not.
You should first and foremost understand that grinding machines are dangerous. Miss use can cause wheel explosions , which you'd rather read about than see.

oldtiffie
03-19-2010, 01:40 AM
tdm.

You must have lived a very sheltered life.

Side-grinding in common in Machine Shops and Tool Rooms (well - the ones I worked in anyway!!!)

Surface grinder wheels are dressed for angles and radii - all of which have considerable side-thrust components. Same applied to edge grinding on saucer and cup wheels etc. They are used with cut-off wheels as well.

While it may be true that no manufacturer (that wide??) recommends it - how many actually either do not recommend it or recommend not to?

I suggest that you have a look at "Machine Shop Trade Secrets" by James A Harvey, Chapter 14 - "Get Your Grinder Going" (page 235).

Harvey is dead-set USA shop-bred and has lottsa "cred". He and his book are almost of icon status in the USA.

Davo J
03-19-2010, 02:01 AM
When I bought my mill, it had milled z axis ways not ground as it was advertised. After getting a replacement mill with ground slides, I looked into how they ground the dovetail ways. I found out they use a wheel shaped like a V which grinds both the dovetail and the way at the same time. I am not sure if these are special wheels as I got limited info, but they were using the sides of the wheel to do the grinding.
Davo

Too_Many_Tools
03-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Try these links for the parts list and manual for the Boyar-Schultz Challenger series surface grinder.


http://www.cobaltequipment.com/manua...rts_Manual.pdf

http://www.cobaltequipment.com/manua...ltz_Manual.pdf

Michael

Michael,

Mind testing your links?

They don't seem to work.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
03-19-2010, 10:35 PM
Has anyone converted this manual surface grinder into an automatic version?

If so, show us your handiwork!

TMT

Too_Many_Tools
03-19-2010, 10:43 PM
While on the subject of the Boya Schultz surface grinder, where does one get parts for this grinder these days?

TMT

rubes
03-19-2010, 10:49 PM
Michael,
Mind testing your links?
They don't seem to work.
TMT

Here ya go Too Many. I just took a few guesses on what the links was supposed to be.
http://www.cobaltequipment.com/manuals/