Soldering On a Bolt Handle

[rws]

Most people say to silver solder a bolt handle on (except the ones that TIG them). Looking in Brownells, the have Silvaloy Silver Solder and they have the Hi Force 44, which has silver in it too.

The Hi Force has a lower temp requirement which I like, to keep the temp of the bolt down at the cocking ramp, but is it strong enough? What is the strength difference between the two?

I have the torch to do both.

[JCHannum]

I have been looking at doing this too. I have Mauser 98 action that I will have to modify the bolt handle on. The general consensus is that TIG, followed by A/O welding, then silver solder are the best options. I don't think a soft solder will provide the strength.

I was talking with a fellow at a show last weekend who made up a fitting with the bolt sleeve thread on it and an adapter that he connected a mist coolant unit to. He used a water mist to keep the cocking ramp cool enough.

I will probably forge the bolt handle on my action, but will use this method when I do.

[38_Cal]

None of the soft solders (silver/tin) are going to be strong enough in the long run. The first sticky case (over pressure or dirty chamber) you get will allow you to rip the bolt handle off of the bolt body. Remington silver brazes their bolt handles onto the bolt bodies, but the surface area is pretty huge compared to Mausers or Springfields. Easiest to do is tig on a new handle, less cleanup. Hardest to learn is to forge a handle.

David

[shotgunsmith]

A Mauser doesn't have enough surface area for soldering, It will need to be welded

[Al Messer]

Most people say to silver solder a bolt handle on (except the ones that TIG them). Looking in Brownells, the have Silvaloy Silver Solder and they have the Hi Force 44, which has silver in it too.

The Hi Force has a lower temp requirement which I like, to keep the temp of the bolt down at the cocking ramp, but is it strong enough? What is the strength difference between the two?

I have the torch to do both.


Use an A/O torch and a 3.5% Nickel Steel rod. Use a "heat sink" bolt inside the bolt body and keep the lugs wrapped with well wetted rags. Roy Dunlap's book can guide you through it step by step.

[argon99]

Use an A/O torch and a 3.5% Nickel Steel rod. Use a "heat sink" bolt inside the bolt body and keep the lugs wrapped with well wetted rags. Roy Dunlap's book can guide you through it step by step.

I second this. I have done this with a Mosin Nagant. Luckily the bolt head can be removed so you don't need to worry about to much heat getting to the locking lugs ( that's where you need to be carefully about the heat not at the caming angle.) After I milled off the bead you couldn't tell it was welded.

You get the high nickel rod from Brownells. Doing a bolt handle on a Mauser is made a lot easier using the jig Brownells has.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc138/misfire99/IMG_0066.jpg

Sorry for the slightly out of focus image. The camera is supposed to auto focus but it doesn't seem to do that well on closeups.

[loose nut]

The strength of any solder job, silver or lead, depends on how the parts are fitted together.

[rws]

I think there is a difference between welding a bolt handle, such as converting a Mauser handle, and attaching a Remington handle to the bolt body.

There are many different types/strengths of silver solder, I assume by the silver content. Here is where my original question was meant. The High Force 44 is one type, and there is the Silvaloy which I think has a higher silver content.

I can send the bolt out and have it TIG'd. I can't heat the bajjebers out of it and use the silvaloy. Or I can use less heat and use the High Force 44. My question is will the HF 44 hold? I'm not in the habit of loading to the point of having to stand up to force a bolt open.

I have tried to twist a copper pipe joint apart that was soldered with plain 50/50, and the pipe would twist and fail before the joint did.

[JCHannum]

David is the voice of experience. Any of the low melting point solders will not have enough strength for an adequate job. It might hold up for a while, but the potential for failure will always be there.

[bikewrench]

There seems to be some confusion as to these two separate processes. Silver soldering is a soldering process that joins the metals at lower temps with a silver colored soldering metal Like hi-force 440. Silver brazing is the way you want to go if you cant TIG them or gas weld. There was supposed to be an several part article on gas welding in the mag that I have been waiting to come out, but until then you can silver braze the bolt handle and it will have plenty of strength. This is the slightly brassy colored rod or wire that melts around 1200 deg. and will require a heat sink or paste in the bolt threads. Don,t fit them frog hair tight, there needs to be a little room between the parts for the silver braze to wick into. I usually cut the bolt handle off square and mill the 90 deg. cut into the new handle @ about a 30 deg. angle, center punch the mating area so there is room for the braze and jig them up with a simple L shaped frame I made from aluminum. This works perfectly if your not going to try to reblue the bolt handle. The braze will take some color but be visible, If your going to Dura-Coat it will be invisible.

[Jon Leary]

You can weld mausers with a arc welder. I use 3/32 rod and wrap the bolt in wet rags. Use very short welds then cool with water and hit it again. Just have to take your time and don't weld long enough to get anything but the weld area too hot. I have done several and no problems.

[38_Cal]

Let's talk apples & apples, not apples & kumquats. Soft solders, whether they are lead/tin, tin/silver or tin/antimony, are not suitable for putting bolt handles onto centerfire rifle bolts, no matter how much surface area the joint will have. Silver braze alloys, sometimes known as hard solders, are fine for jobs with substantial surface area like the Remington 700 family. Springfields, Mausers, Arisakas, and others with the original bolt handle forged as part of the body, have a handle root that seldom exceeds 5/16" square, and a new handle on these should be welded in place. Hope this clears it up a bit.

David

[Seastar]

56% silver solders have a tensile strength of 70-80,000 PSI.
That should hold most bolt handles.
That having been said, I prefer TIG.
Bill

[Ken_Shea]

The strength of any solder job, silver or lead, depends on how the parts are fitted together.
loose nut,
So true, however, I do not believe any solder or braze ought to be in use for this type job.

As far as the 3.5% nickle don't get all excited about that, just get their hi-tensile strength gas welding rod as they likely have no idea what % nickle is in it. I never, I mean never used that copper coated trash that is so commonly available. The Hi-Tensile is un-coated.

If you can't find it PM me, I have plenty.

Ken

[Pbike]

PTG, The reamer people, Pacific Tool and Grinding sells replacement bolts and Handles for Remington rifles. In talking to them, The Material is 4140 Steel on the handle and on the bolt body. Their smith solders the handle in place and then TIG welds it for permanent hold. He uses a Jig and a heat sink, that they wont sell. It appears you have to make your own.

Paul

[JCHannum]

Bolt welding jigs are available from Brownells and, I think, B Square if they are still around. Heat sinks might also be available from the same sources.

Soldering, whether lead or silver before welding sounds like a good way to contaminate the weld. I would skip that and just weld after fixturing.

[motorcyclemac]

On bolts that have the incline plane for case extraction in the bolt body...you have to be careful to not overheat that area. It will soften and create excessive drag and heavy bolt lift. You can however selectively harden that area again to a glass hard surface to promote the extraction cam to glide rather than gall.

Cheers
Mac.

[Pbike]

There are actually 2 cams at the rear of the Remington bolt. The extraction cam is on the top of the bolt handle (saddle), and the Cocking piece cam which is on the bottom of the bolt body. Neither one do you want to soften. Which is exactly why I believe a good braze job to suffice. as long as your dies are set correctly and your chamber is right, and you keep the camming areas well greased, you should never have a problem.

Now what is the correct filler metal and flux to use and at what temp? That's the big question.