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John Stevenson
04-10-2010, 07:08 PM
I know some people here like to work with that brown stuff and I was pointed to this link on another form I go on.

http://www.flexiblestream.org/Digital-Wood-Joints-001.php

Basically it's a series of joins that can be cut using CNC machinery, some quite nice ones as well.

http://www.flexiblestream.org/Projectdata/Digital-Wood-Joints/Digital-Wood-Joints-big.jpg

.

Your Old Dog
04-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Actually John there are books full of different joints for woodworkers and many are very complicated. I'd love to see just one project done with some of them by hand! You would need a month of Sundays to get just one precision fit in some of the more complicated. CNC joints would not appeal to me for the same reason that dovetails cut with jigs don't, no evidence of hand and too perfect for my liking. I only use mortise & tenon and dovetails and all hand cut.

John Stevenson
04-10-2010, 08:02 PM
Don't tell me, with a flint axe ? :D

Jim Shaper
04-10-2010, 08:15 PM
Don't tell me, with a flint axe ? :D

He directs beavers. :p

fortcollinsjerry
04-10-2010, 08:23 PM
. . . . I have a book on Japanese woodworking and joints. Some are so complicated as to suspend belief. Wonderful art work though. They can put together an entire house without any nails. Something to think about :)

Frank Ford
04-10-2010, 08:35 PM
By hand? Sure - this one is a hand cut joint from Martin about 130 years ago - it's about as tricky as any I work on in my business:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/1887Restore/1887Views/188710.jpg

Here's a traditional Japanese joint:

http://berglondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/japanese-joinery-02.jpg

And, a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwAnpqjEo1A

Power tools, jigs and fixtures, CNC - they're all fine, but there's a special feeling you can get by working strictly with hand tools.

I particularly like hand carving these ivory bridges:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Bridges/IvoryBridge/IvoryBridgeViews/ivorybridge15.jpg

Here's the whole process:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Bridges/IvoryBridge/ivorybridge.html

.RC.
04-10-2010, 09:54 PM
The nail gun made all these wood joints obsolete...

If one nail won't do, you slam another ten in.. Which is the ideology of every modern carpenter I have seen...

oldtiffie
04-10-2010, 10:11 PM
'ere y'are Ringer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Dunny.jpg/220px-Dunny.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunny

The original timber joint with maximum economy as regards nails, material and time but tops as regards functionality.

Many a bloke has spent many an hour in there with his hammer in his hand with much sweat and feverish activity - and not a nail driven - but he emerged with a satisfied look on his face tho' - but his head looked like it was being pulled down between his shoulders.

Wives were either pi$$ed off because he spent so much time there - or didn't.

A classic of OZ carpentry skills and joints. Two and three holers were in use in the "Out-back" (both "dunny" and wide open spaces).

But we are a very refined lot here and certainly not uncouth at all - hence the vanity curtain.

davidh
04-10-2010, 11:21 PM
me thinks thats an over-share................................

Mcgyver
04-11-2010, 01:00 AM
The nail gun made all these wood joints obsolete...
.

ah yes, those skilled craftsmen who think drywall screws and sandpaper made joinery and wood scrapers obsolete :D

Mark McGrath
04-11-2010, 04:01 AM
. . . . I have a book on Japanese woodworking and joints. (Snip snip.) They can put together an entire house without any nails. Something to think about :)

We have builders like that here too :-)

Your Old Dog
04-11-2010, 08:20 AM
. They can put together an entire house without any nails. Something to think about :)

Hell, they were doing that in Florida for the past 50 years. That's why many of the roofs blew off during hurricanes. I think building codes call for nails now :D



Don't tell me, with a flint axe ? :D

Only if its been dulled down a bit skinning buffalo, elk and limeys ! There needs to be some challenge left to make it worth the effort.

John Stevenson
04-11-2010, 08:27 AM
Limeys are the worst, they don't half have thick skins........

Alistair Hosie
04-11-2010, 11:37 AM
I sold my biscuit joiner and have gone back happily to using dowels much better.Alistair

speedy
04-12-2010, 06:56 AM
'ere y'are Ringer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Dunny.jpg/220px-Dunny.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunny

The original timber joint with maximum economy as regards nails, material and time but tops as regards functionality.

Many a bloke has spent many an hour in there with his hammer in his hand with much sweat and feverish activity - and not a nail driven - but he emerged with a satisfied look on his face tho' - but his head looked like it was being pulled down between his shoulders.

Wives were either pi$$ed off because he spent so much time there - or didn't.

A classic of OZ carpentry skills and joints. Two and three holers were in use in the "Out-back" (both "dunny" and wide open spaces).

But we are a very refined lot here and certainly not uncouth at all - hence the vanity curtain.

hi ya Tiffie, the title for your post was 'OZ joints and skills for pragmatic wankers'??:D did you get that shaper yet?

oldtiffie
04-12-2010, 07:07 AM
hi ya Tiffie, the title for your post was 'OZ joints and skills for pragmatic wankers'??:D did you get that shaper yet?

No - not yet Ken. I was waiting for a reply to a couple of my emails to you - about the time you were going to see about or install your chair-lift on your stairway.

Send me a PM or email me with your email address and I'll see if I can find the emails and will re-send them to bring you up to date.

Re. the pragmatic wanker bit - through years of dedicated wanking, I wore the shaft of my hammer to the extent that the head fell off and then my hands (change hands at each 100) kept sliding off. It will not surprise you that due to poor eye-sight (Mum was dead right after all) I could not see to find it - but I'd guess where it went!!

And still not a nail driven in anger.

speedy
04-12-2010, 07:36 AM
Arrrrr, is all clear now. Used to be Youngstiffie?? As we all were at one time or other:)

Have sent a PM.


.Re. the pragmatic wanker bit - through years of dedicated wanking, I wore the shaft of my hammer to the extent that the head fell off and then my hands (change hands at each 100) kept sliding off. It will not surprise you that due to poor eye-sight (Mum was dead right after all) I could not see to find it - but I'd guess where it went!!
And still not a nail driven in anger.

Allan Waterfall
04-12-2010, 09:18 AM
I sold my biscuit joiner and have gone back happily to using dowels much better.Alistair

Why do you want to join biscuits,you'll get crumbs everywhere ?

Allan

kendall
04-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Actually John there are books full of different joints for woodworkers and many are very complicated. I'd love to see just one project done with some of them by hand! You would need a month of Sundays to get just one precision fit in some of the more complicated. CNC joints would not appeal to me for the same reason that dovetails cut with jigs don't, no evidence of hand and too perfect for my liking. I only use mortise & tenon and dovetails and all hand cut.

Agree with that, have an old cabinet in the dining room that's handmade. it's my wife's grandmother's who got it from her grandmother who's grandfather built it for her. Had someone tell her (my wife) that because the dovetails weren't 'perfect' that it was cheaply built junk. I just told him to check some things out at museums and antique furniture stores.


Modern adhesives have eliminated the need for real joinery today, most are stronger than the wood they're applied to. So the only reason to make a real joint is for appearance or authenticity, which means true joinery is left to craftsman, restoration professionals, and masochistic woodworkers.

That being said, I seldom do dovetails preferring finger joints cut on the sled.
Ken.

John Stevenson
04-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Can you buy dovetail nails ?

.

camdigger
04-12-2010, 06:59 PM
Why do you want to join biscuits,you'll get crumbs everywhere ?

Allan

So they'll hold more Cheeze Whiz?:D