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JCHannum
04-11-2010, 10:35 PM
This is what traffic was like in San Francisco in 1906. It is purportedly the first 35MM film ever. It was taken by a camera mounted on the front of a cable car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k

Pete F
04-11-2010, 10:53 PM
I seem to remember the cable cars going just a wee bit faster last time I was there.

In fact, I remember thinking that lawyers don't seem to have noticed the cable cars yet, after I had to yank my foot up to avoid getting it smashed against the mirror of a car. (Please note that I think that is a good thing).

-Pete

Mcgyver
04-11-2010, 10:55 PM
neat film, could be China 2010....all manner of vehicles, people and animals moving about in all directions with not apparent regard for lanes or protocol...but some how it works :D

tyrone shewlaces
04-11-2010, 11:14 PM
Looks like present-day India with less people. I'd love to have lived in those times instead of these. At least folks had hope of a brighter future. Sorry to say it seems to me like it's now just a constant effort to try and stay from beneath of the steamroller - and I'm not doing a very good job of it.

And I think they got where you was goin' faster back then than you can now.
You could travel in a straight line and no stopping fer nuthin' like you have to do all day in current times. We're 50 times faster.... between pauses. Oh rapture!:rolleyes:

quadrod
04-11-2010, 11:20 PM
Yep neat film, on the bottom of the page was this one showing some of the same footage with some of the same street after the 1906 earth quake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k

J Tiers
04-11-2010, 11:37 PM
neat film, could be China 2010....all manner of vehicles, people and animals moving about in all directions with not apparent regard for lanes or protocol...but some how it works :D

Oh, man...... cars, mopeds, scooters, bicycles..... I have seen a whole de-boned pig carcass over the back of a bike on its way to the restaurant kitchen...... In Shenzhen. Not sure it works so well everywhere....

In Taiwan, if the Southbound lanes are clogged up, Southbound cars get in the Northbound lanes and gun it.... I must have seen a dozen car-scooter accidents, some looked serious.

There is a sub-industry in 3 wheel scooter conversions for folks who get too crocked-up in accidents to ride a 2 wheel type..... and artificial limbs were advertised on the side of buildings in Taipei.

Definitely not well-regulated traffic.... That film is pretty tame by comparison.

Evan
04-11-2010, 11:53 PM
I'd love to have lived in those times instead of these. At least folks had hope of a brighter future.

It wasn't any better than it is now. In just a few years the biggest meat grinder of a war started killing huge numbers of young men in the prime of life all over some petty politics. Then, along with that came a worldwide plague that killed so many people that some towns were wiped out entirely. That was followed within 12 years by the worst depression in modern history which was followed by another world war.

No thanks.

macona
04-12-2010, 01:59 AM
It wasn't any better than it is now. In just a few years the biggest meat grinder of a war started killing huge numbers of young men in the prime of life all over some petty politics. Then, along with that came a worldwide plague that killed so many people that some towns were wiped out entirely. That was followed within 12 years by the worst depression in modern history which was followed by another world war.

No thanks.

Then there was the polio epidemic after that.

Nostalgia aint what it used to be!

dp
04-12-2010, 02:01 AM
Then there was the polio epidemic after that.

Nostalgia aint what it used to be!

And it never was. Probably Yogi Berra said that.

ptjw7uk
04-12-2010, 04:21 AM
That looks like the USA hadnt decided on which side of the road to drive on!

Peter

beanbag
04-12-2010, 05:50 AM
I can see many similarities to SF today, with the main difference that now when you get nearly run down or cut off, you flip the bird and exchange a few choice words.

JCHannum
04-12-2010, 08:14 AM
Yep neat film, on the bottom of the page was this one showing some of the same footage with some of the same street after the 1906 earth quake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=NINOxRxze9k

According to the information with the vid, it was filmed four days before the earthquake struck. It was probably somewhat staged for the film which would account for the apparently low speed of the cable car and that it did not stop to pick up passengers, you can see a couple of groups waving for it to stop.

No, they had not decided which side of the road to drive on yet, that came a couple of years later.

As far as better times, you don't know what will happen four days from now. September 11, 2001 started as a beautiful Fall day.

Lew Hartswick
04-12-2010, 09:08 AM
Very good.
Of course we still have drivers like that here in Albuquerque. :-)
...lew...

kendall
04-12-2010, 09:50 AM
looks like the whole film is being played back at 3/4 speed maybe less, Observe the walking pace of even the fastest walkers. You don't take long steps to walk slow, and most of them are taking long strides as would be consistent with people who typically walk farther than the driveway.

I always enjoy those little bits of everyday life in the past when they show up, far more interesting than actual history as found in text books etc.

Ken.

Your Old Dog
04-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the post JC. I watched the entire thing. It's an honest look backward in time without all the hype.

(Actually it suggest to me that all those old western movies with 8 buildings in town and 3,000 town folks and wagons cluttering up the streets might have been a fair view :D )

rockrat
04-12-2010, 11:04 AM
It would seem that the lens on the camera gives a false sense of how close the car is to other objects. Watch how people line up on the right to get on the car. They seem to only start to reach for the car at what would seem to be far past where the front entrance would be.

As for the speed, those taking long steps do not look to be leaning forward. I seem to notice that people in a hurry lean forward as they walk/run faster. I will agree that the film speed seems a bit off but not by much.

Personally I thought that the individuals look to be a bit more relaxed.

Outside of all that, it is a great video. I watched it a few times now. And the tunes are a good match.

rock~

Evan
04-12-2010, 12:31 PM
The film speed is off because it was filmed at 18 frames per second back then instead of at 24 fps. To convert to either new film or to video requires a compromise on the speed since 18 is not a factor of 24 fps or the video rate of 30 fps. The conversion is done by doubling some frames in a regular pattern. It must be regular or it will look very jerky so there is no effective way to display old silent movies at the correct frame rate on modern media.

When they convert to video they double every frame which produces 36 frames. When that is displayed at 30 frames per second it results in a slowdown to 83% of full speed.

aostling
04-12-2010, 02:34 PM
I watched this, mesmerized as the Ferry Building got closer and closer. This was the Market Street Cable Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_Street_Cable_Railway. I've been to the Cable Car Museum several times, but was unaware of this film. Where has it been hiding?

krutch
04-12-2010, 03:49 PM
WHAT! NO MOTORCYCLES!
Man, some of those horsedrawns looked as though they'd fall apart at the next cobblestone. Thanks for the look into the past. I always like to see how it was 'back then'. Glad to live in the time when the girls dress to be looked at! And I'll look! The street cleaners were doing their job back then, I didn't see 'road apples' anywhere. Don't think it would be that way today with a union worker.
Krutch


MCAPTWandering

JCHannum
04-12-2010, 04:11 PM
I watched this, mesmerized as the Ferry Building got closer and closer. This was the Market Street Cable Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_Street_Cable_Railway. I've been to the Cable Car Museum several times, but was unaware of this film. Where has it been hiding?

It was sent to me by a friend who sends many of "those" e-mails every day. It has apparently been among the missing for many years, just turning up recently.

kendall
04-12-2010, 06:39 PM
As for the speed, those taking long steps do not look to be leaning forward. I seem to notice that people in a hurry lean forward as they walk/run faster. I will agree that the film speed seems a bit off but not by much.

Personally I thought that the individuals look to be a bit more relaxed.

rock~

I wasn't saying it looked like they were in a hurry, just stating that the length of their steps was inconsistent with the speed they were moving. When I am out walking with the grandson, I take short steps to move slowly in order to match his speed, when I take a leisurely walk to the store at my own pace, my steps are 2 or 3 times longer, and my speed is much higher. Haven't timed it, but I'd say I take the same amount of steps per second.

To walk slowly, you take shorter steps, not by taking long steps slowly.

Agree, they do look far more relaxed than people in the modern world.

Evans explanation of the 'slowness' sounds plausible, I remember reading about the issue a while ago, but only remembered it after reading his explanation.

Ken.

John Stevenson
04-12-2010, 06:56 PM
Not a traffic light in sight, no islands, no police directing traffic and I didn't see one person run over.

I thought that people were just getting on the cars as they passed and didn't stop, note the on coming cars, people seem to be getting on and off them ?

When you had to think for yourself it was probably easier than being told what to do and hog tied by red tape and rules.

Evan
04-12-2010, 07:34 PM
Evans explanation of the 'slowness' sounds plausible...

It isn't "plausible". It is fact. The only other option is to play the 18 fps films at 30 frames per second which would be much too fast.

Farbmeister
04-12-2010, 09:35 PM
The stink of livestock on a hot summers day.. not that any normal city doesn't have its own special odor.

I'll take my small town of 700 any day.

But on the plus side, cocaine, opium and hash would have been legal to purchase and use!!!!

fishfrnzy
04-12-2010, 11:53 PM
Cool video. Looks awful flat to be SF though. At least very part I ever walked was what you migh call "Hilly" ( steep as sh*t ).

Evan
04-13-2010, 01:00 AM
If you liked that you will want to watch this called "The American Road". It's a history of the first 50 years of motorized transportation in the USA. Made in 1953 I saw it several times as a child. Although we didn't have a television as I grew up we did have a 16mm projector and a large screen permanently installed in the theatre room. My father brought home a couple of films from the University film library every Friday. This one really sticks in my mind with a lot of original old footage from the earliest days of the motor car. It's 38 minutes long.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3837418395711753485#

gearedloco
04-13-2010, 01:06 AM
You can't slow a cable car, except by coasting. The cable runs at 9 mph, IIRC.

Slipping the cable for any length of time is a big no-no. That's very hard on the wood grips, and it doesn't do the cable much good either. The Gripman is either on the cable or off of it.

It's 9 mph, up hill and down hill. Riding on a car which is stopping on a hill can be very exciting. Especially one going down hill. Every so often one "gets away.":eek: The "Emergency brake" is a steel wedge that gets forced into the slot. It usually has to be removed with a gas wrench. It usually stops the car RIGHT NOW. The riders tend to decelerate at a slower rate, until they all reach the front of the car at the same time. Ouch!

The cable car crews (Gripman and Conductor) are more or less the elite of the Muni operating employees. It ain't easy work, from the looks of it.

-bill

gmatov
04-13-2010, 01:10 AM
Before you wish for the "Good Ole Days", read Otto Bettmann's "The Good Old Days-They were Terrible", by Otto Bettmann, owner of the Bettmann Archives.

Horse apples, in 1900, in Rochester, NY, the calculation was that the 15,000 horses in the city produced enough of those "apples" to cover an acre of ground 175 feet deep.

Pictures in the book of traffic jams of horse drawn traffic that locked up NYC for dozens of blocks.

Mounds of garbage lined the streets and sidewalks 6 feet high. Rivers caught fire, from pollution.

Life was pristine? Go out and stake a claim for a farmstead? Not see another soul for a year at a time? Do everything for yourself or die? Cut your hand on a rusty nail and die of tetanus?

I'm sitting here in my recliner with KB on my lap, at 1/2 past midnight, don't have to get up before the sun to milk the cow, give the milk to mama and the kids to churn into butter, then to make cheese from, while I go out to plow an acre, IF I can, behind a team while trudging behind their asses, before dark.

In the down time, go out and hew 20 to 30 cords of firewood for the day to day cooking, and the coming Winter.

I like having an electrical drop at my house, a gas line to my house, cable and Internet drop, water to my pipes. When I was a kid, hell, long before that, my Dad had to dig a 40 foot well, by hand, for pump water that we had to go pump for household use. Got water in my village about 1950. Still used an outhouse, even in the middle of Winter. House burned down in 1964 and still no indoor toilet. Still pi*sed in a bucket and crapped 75 feet away in the 2 holer.

Still have one house that I know of in town that has no running water, and NO indoor plumbing at all, because, One, the lady couldn't afford it IF they were willing to extend the water line to just her house, nor could she probably afford to have fixtures installed if they did.

Funny, too, as he was one of the Hungarians who was mine boss way back when, one of the higher paid coal mine employees. Small house, but brick, on the top of the hill in town. Rest of the town was all , except for Boss houses, duplex clapboard.

Every year of the past 200 or so, here, we have improved living conditions, with exception of Depressions and wars. Believe me, you would not like to go back to those "Idylic" times. Maybe 1 percent of you could survive. At my age, I could not.

Were there an actual "Lucifer's Hammer" we would be MAYBE a nation of 3 million survivors. One-percenters..Bettmann book is ISBN 0-394-70941-1 paper bound. I have no idea the price. I bought it either at Half Price Books or or Border's reduced. 1974 pub date.

Cheers,

George

lazlo
04-13-2010, 01:27 AM
The film speed is off because it was filmed at 18 frames per second back then instead of at 24 fps. To convert to either new film or to video requires a compromise on the speed since 18 is not a factor of 24 fps or the video rate of 30 fps.

Nvidia has some slick optical flow software ("Baddabing" -- can't make stuff like that up :)) that interpolates frames between the scanned frames based on the inter-frame motion estimation. People often use it to upsample 30 fps video to 60 fps. It would be fun to resample this video to true speed -- I'll run it tomorrow if I have time...

Evan
04-13-2010, 01:34 AM
I have experimented with morphing between frames and for some material it works fairly well. I will be interested to see what your new technique can do. The real catch is how it will deal with changing the frame rate to something that isn't a multiple of the original. Not all frames will be treated the same and that presents a problem.

lazlo
04-13-2010, 01:52 AM
The real catch is how it will deal with changing the frame rate to something that isn't a multiple of the original.

A software media player doesn't care about weird frame rates -- Flash Player 4 defaulted to 18 frames per second, for example. I was just going to re-interpolate to 24/18 (1.333x) speed.

darryl
04-13-2010, 01:59 AM
Well that was interesting. I see there were radicals around even then- see the five or six guys in gray suits, not black-

oldtiffie
04-13-2010, 02:26 AM
Before you wish for the "Good Ole Days", read Otto Bettmann's "The Good Old Days-They were Terrible", by Otto Bettmann, owner of the Bettmann Archives.

Horse apples, in 1900, in Rochester, NY, the calculation was that the 15,000 horses in the city produced enough of those "apples" to cover an acre of ground 175 feet deep.

Pictures in the book of traffic jams of horse drawn traffic that locked up NYC for dozens of blocks.

Mounds of garbage lined the streets and sidewalks 6 feet high. Rivers caught fire, from pollution.

Life was pristine? Go out and stake a claim for a farmstead? Not see another soul for a year at a time? Do everything for yourself or die? Cut your hand on a rusty nail and die of tetanus?

I'm sitting here in my recliner with KB on my lap, at 1/2 past midnight, don't have to get up before the sun to milk the cow, give the milk to mama and the kids to churn into butter, then to make cheese from, while I go out to plow an acre, IF I can, behind a team while trudging behind their asses, before dark.

In the down time, go out and hew 20 to 30 cords of firewood for the day to day cooking, and the coming Winter.

I like having an electrical drop at my house, a gas line to my house, cable and Internet drop, water to my pipes. When I was a kid, hell, long before that, my Dad had to dig a 40 foot well, by hand, for pump water that we had to go pump for household use. Got water in my village about 1950. Still used an outhouse, even in the middle of Winter. House burned down in 1964 and still no indoor toilet. Still pi*sed in a bucket and crapped 75 feet away in the 2 holer.

Still have one house that I know of in town that has no running water, and NO indoor plumbing at all, because, One, the lady couldn't afford it IF they were willing to extend the water line to just her house, nor could she probably afford to have fixtures installed if they did.

Funny, too, as he was one of the Hungarians who was mine boss way back when, one of the higher paid coal mine employees. Small house, but brick, on the top of the hill in town. Rest of the town was all , except for Boss houses, duplex clapboard.

Every year of the past 200 or so, here, we have improved living conditions, with exception of Depressions and wars. Believe me, you would not like to go back to those "Idylic" times. Maybe 1 percent of you could survive. At my age, I could not.

Were there an actual "Lucifer's Hammer" we would be MAYBE a nation of 3 million survivors. One-percenters..Bettmann book is ISBN 0-394-70941-1 paper bound. I have no idea the price. I bought it either at Half Price Books or or Border's reduced. 1974 pub date.

Cheers,

George

George.

You are a *hit-stirrer - but a bloody good one!!! - pricking peoples bubble of a grand idyllic utopia in the the so-called "good old days".

Perhaps they should have worked in some of the sweat shops of 100 or so years ago, trudge to and from work and live in pretty poor housing (hovels?) on not much more than subsistence wages - and bugger all "bennies" and "health plans" and even worse "prospects" in what were in effect "company towns".

Not many would have been able to afford to catch the cable tram and few if any had to worry about what side of the road to drive their cars on.

Those were the days in which "manufacturing" was king.

I was brought up in a slum - 1937>1951 - four taps, outside dunny and laundry etc. etc. where the baker's cart, the milkman's cart, the council and garbage carts and the "night soil/"can" were all drawn by horses with stables in a residential area. There was horse *hit and urine everywhere - and rats and flies!!!

Most of the people who, when they had jobs, worked in "manufacturing" and either walked or rode a bicycle to work.

And who the hell wants to go back to that?

Some utopia - hey?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

aostling
04-13-2010, 02:56 AM
I was brought up in a slum - 1937>1951 - four taps, outside dunny and laundry etc. etc. where the baker's cart, the milkman's cart, the council and garbage carts and the "night soil/"can" were all drawn by horses with stables in a residential area. There was horse *hit and urine everywhere - and rats and flies!!!


If you are talking about Sydney, I'd heard it was a bit rough, but not that rough.

oldtiffie
04-13-2010, 06:25 AM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie
I was brought up in a slum - 1937>1951 - four taps, outside dunny and laundry etc. etc. where the baker's cart, the milkman's cart, the council and garbage carts and the "night soil/"can" were all drawn by horses with stables in a residential area. There was horse *hit and urine everywhere - and rats and flies!!!


If you are talking about Sydney, I'd heard it was a bit rough, but not that rough.

Some parts of Sydney were as bad - or worse.

My "adventures" were in a Melbourne (Victoria) inner suburb - skin stores, tanneries, meat-processing works, abattoirs, soap and chemical factories, cattle and sheep sale yards, foundries, polluted rivers and open drains, various noxious industries and a perpetually alight dump/tip etc.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~flemweb/localhistory_ken.html

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~flemweb/localhistory_newmarket.html

Our place was not quite as bad as this but some of my friends were in similar conditions - not even even on the bottom rung. I had the *hit belted out of me at the Holy Rosary RC (Jesuit) school I went to for mixing with "pagans" and "heathens" - and most had fathers etc at the front in WW2 - as did I. The stand-over tactics of the Jesuits terrified my mother as she was afraid of losing custody of her children - and my Father was furious and repeatedly tossed them out and took them to task - but back they came etc. so we had to move. And then it happened all over again but to a lesser but bearable level. We had lots of odd visits from the Police and debt and rent collectors with threats of being tossed out onto the street for no good reason that my parents could see. My mother was terrified as she might "lose custody" and so every debt was paid and "collection plate" money for Church/Mass was always set aside - meals etc. were lower down the list.

Later on, things improved to a level that few now would put up with, but somehow my parents got us kids into a Technical School (we had to win scholarships to get and stay there - which we did). I have have absolutely no idea how my parents got the four eldest boys a good Apprenticeship - but once we got it we could see our chance and hung onto it like grim death - after we had left Kensington. Those Apprenticeships and wages as a Tradesman were our tickets out of there. We made damned sure we always had a job as Tradesmen - or better.

"Dudley Flats" and West and North Melbourne abutted Kensington:
http://localhero.biz/article/permatitle/history_of_west_melbourne,_victoria/

We were able to get out of it to something a bit - but not a lot - better in about 1949.

All of it has now been "gentrified" and is now "very desirable" with very high prices - and a lot of money has been spent now that "people of influence and substance" were buying it all up. I don't recognise a lot of it now - but some of the older building have been "restored".

I was extremely fortunate in my Apprenticeship as I had excellent conditions and machines as well as Tradesmen who regarded it as a mark of their esteem to help train apprentices. It took me many years to really realise just how good and lucky I had it and just how good that training was.

So, all in all, I think that I came out of it pretty well probably mostly because of others and sheer good luck and perhaps more in spite of myself than because of myself.

I realise that I have had a very good life.

aostling
04-13-2010, 11:20 AM
but once we got it we could see our chance and hung onto it like grim death - after we had left Kensington.

Ah, Kensington. In my 1922 Times Atlas this is shown as being just north of the West Melbourne Swamp, then wasteland.

I'll be visiting cousins in Brighton and St Kilda at the end of the year. I'll have to look at Kensington to see how it has changed from the slum of your youth.

gmatov
04-14-2010, 12:48 AM
Tiffie,

I am a bit younger than you. Retirement age, so not all that much younger.

You're right that they all seem to think the "Good Old Days" were the best.

Could have actually used an SB 9 when it was new. Wowee!

My dad retired from the mines in 1949. 100 bucks a month, 3 bucks and change per day. Social Security, too, Thank You Franklin, was about 56 bucks per month. We really lived high on the hog, NOT.

Beef was round steak and plate boil, also called chuck. Kraut, turnips, potatoes, beans were the menu. Home grown, home killed chicken. When I came along, we no longer raised our own pigs, but my predecessors did. Was a community thing, then. One farmer raised them, we all contributed, we all helped in the butchering, we all shared, as to our contribution. Socialism at its best.

Foul term, I know. YOU wouldn't know about "socialized medicine" would you?

I wonder if those who think life was easier back then when they went on strike to get better wages and the Government sent in troops to break the strike, or Frick hired goons, Pinkertons, to come in and shoot his striking miners.

We have the same problem 100 years later, ask Rush Limbaugh, of Mine Owners who do not follow safety rules set up by the UMWA, and "Why didn't the UNION make sure that the MINE was SAFE?"

THAT jackass totally ignores that Massey Coal, and Blankenship, who totally terrorized the miners, 70% wanted a UNION and he told them flat out that the UNION came in, he would immediately shut down the mine.

The UMWA sent a rescue team TO the Massey mine to help and were rejected. They have more expertise in mine rescue than ANY Corp has. They're cheap. Hundred out of work miners lined up for your job. Just like Arty, back there.

Corps don't have any concern about you more than will it cost them money, and that is a recent thing.

There is still not a Corp that gives a damn about their employees today than ever before. "You cost me more than I can wring out of you, you are gone."

Things are no better, relatively speaking, than they ever were. Those at the bottom of the economic ladder might climb up, but it is a steep climb.

Today's climate, 9.7% unemployed, does not bode well for those looking for a job, or coming out of school.

Cheers,

George

hoof
04-18-2010, 10:52 AM
I suppose living indoors and eating regularly never was easy, and most likely never will be. :D

Paul Alciatore
04-18-2010, 11:58 AM
1. Wow, where was this. Great footage. I love it.

2. Our great (great) grandfathers were worse drivers than any teenager I have ever known. And the pedestrians and bicycle riders are just as bad. Did you see the guy on a bicycle who tried to follow the slot. Good way to get stuck and then creamed.

3. Yes, all black suits, probably because they were cheaper. As Henry said, you can have it in any color you like as long as it is black. And even the kids had hats.

4. Very few ladies. I guess they were all home making dinner. But I did see a few.

5. The number of cable cars is just amazing. They must have been spaced less than a block apart on the other side. Rush hour?? This perhaps explains the need to dart between them with no regard for safety. But I didn't see one in front of the car with the camera. Perhaps that was deliberate to allow the filming.

6. Also a large number of sight-seeing cars, apparently gasoline powered as they did not run on tracks. Tourism seems to have been big back then.

Great footage. The historians will delight in it.

As for nostalgia, it looks like a great place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.